Been a lot of talk about using these 3-pot engines in project vehicles over the years, but I've yet to hear of a successful home-brew
installation.
Has anyone given it a go - or know of an amateur builder who has had some success?
Can the OEM ECU be used (without the builder requiring a degree in electronic engineering!)?
Have any of the mid-range ECU manufacturers (Omex, DTA, etc) cracked direct-injection yet?
They're still a bit expensive donors aren't they? There's a lot more to be had for less money.
Although Caterham do use a Turbocharged Suzuki 3 pot. And I believe there is a race series that uses the ecoboost engine in some form (although not
the 1.0 I think).
https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/calibration/
I've been wondering the same thing for a while now. Buying a whole donor might be pricey but as it's one of the main engines in two of the
top 5 cars sold in this country, I can't imagine it would be that expensive to buy a new engine or a re-con from a written off car.
In the focus I thought it was a bit of a let down, but in a light car and tuned for performance should be a hoot.
Send me a donor and I will have a crack at it
I drove a 125bhp 1.0 ltr eco boost in a fiesta a couple of weeks ago very impressed decent power and amazingly smooth and quite .
The RP1 from elemental uses the ecoboost http://elementalcars.co.uk/
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I can't imagine it would be that expensive to buy a new engine or a re-con from a written off car.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/caterham/7/60749/caterham-seven-sv-10-ecoboost
And Ford built that road legal formula ford with a 180bhp version I think.
Bound to happen a few times in the future as the donors get a bit older/cheaper.
Ad
Riot are building their demo car with a 1.6ecoboost.
My sister got a Fiesta 1.0ecoboost last year and it's very impressive. Pulls really well even loaded up and it's the smoothest 3pot
I've come across.
Not an eco boost, but the Toyota Aygo engine. These people will supply you with a new engine in motorsport tune (80 BHP over the stock 63). They
even do RWD gearboxes to match if you don't want FWD. At 65kg fully dressed including fluids, it is a light weight lump too.
http://www.dee-ltd.co.uk/powertrain/1kr-fe.html
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Send me a donor and I will have a crack at it
Thanks for the replies guys.
Yup, was aware that Ford and Caterham had used the 3-pot, but I was after any 'home brew' / 'amateur build' installation info.
Ford and Caterham clearly have the tech-bods / finances / contacts to do the development work. Most of us don't.
I'm mainly wondering if anyone has managed to use the OE ECU from the Ecoboosts donor outside the OE car? I can't afford a direct-injection
friendly Pectel or Motec ECU.
The option I went for when fiddling with the Audi FSI V8 was to blank-off the direct-injection ports and use 'normal' injectors in
TB's. I wouldn't do it again as it was so complicated / pricey.
The problem with the ECU's used to run the latest Ecoboost engines is that they require a direct injection module and use a fly by wire throttle.
This unfortunately increases the cost of an aftermarket ecu due to the greater number of components needed and the very complex calibration needed to
get it all working nicely.
We have been working on the installation of our 4cyl 1.6 Ecoboost using a Tornado ECU which is half the price of a Life Racing system, but still
requires further tweaks to get the most out of it. I believe Life racing support the Formula Ford 1.6 Ecoboost race engines.
In fact we are looking into the possibility of swapping the direct injection for regular fuel injection and using a mechanical throttle, which
significantly reduces the overall cost and greatly simplifies the calibration at little detriment to the engines performance.
The company that now build our engines are working on a reasonably priced plug and play ecu to manage the ecoboost units but it looks like they will
not be available till next year.
These are brilliantly little units and we believe will be the engine of choice in the very near future especially due to their very low emissions and
ability to produce a huge amount of power (1.6 can produce a reliable 300bhp on standard internals). It's just a matter of time before the
aftermarket parts become available at the right price.
Ecoboost in here: http://www.vortex-auto.com/
Cheers
Ian
Looks like prices are starting to drop.
FORD FIESTA MK9 2012-2015 1.0 998CC ECOBOOST ENGINE + TURBO 120 / 125PS | eBay
KA
Just need to find a way of controlling it.
I've been researching the Ecoboost for the last few weeks and the limited amount of information i've been able to find on the internet is
conflicting as usual I wonder if anyone here could help me understand some of the questions i've had about using the Ecoboost engine?
I assumed that if you were crazy enough you could take the entire wring loom, ecu, sensors, etc. out of a fiesta, focus, c-max (whatever else the
engine is in?) and you would be mostly sorted until there was a better alternative to control the engine. However things i've read suggest that
it might not be that simple due to the way all of the electronics communicate on a modern vehicle and that even things like the stereo, alarm,
electric windows, etc. may be required as the computer expects them to be there.
This does seem a bit odd to me though, I wouldn't expect my vehicle to stop running if my stereo broke for example! If that's the case,
presumably there's some tool that ford themselves are able to use to disable various components meaning that you needed less less of the donor
vehicle?
The other thing i'm trying to understand is what gearbox you might be able to use with the engine. Some people suggest that it might be
compatible with the type 9 earbox, others suggest that it's definitely not compatible... So does anyone know which it is?
I thought the Caterham article was interesting when I first read it, but I got the idea that Ford themselves had decided to try out the engine in the
Caterham rather than Caterham wanting to try out the engine. Either way they would have had to control it in some way, which for Ford may have been
easy (being their engine), but if it was, what would they have used? Would one of their engineers have quickly whipped up a cut down version of the
ecu in their retail vehicles? If so... why wouldn't they have gone on to make something similar available to anyone who wanted to use the engine
in something else? The same goes for the gearbox they used.. would it have been a Caterham sequential gearbox and how would they have made it
compatible with the engine? Presumably even with lots of money Ford wouldn't have gone to the trouble to produced a one off bell housing just to
put it in a Caterham once?
Interestingly a family member works for Lotus. I was discussing the Ecoboost engine with him perhaps 6 months ago and he said that Lotus had tested
it out in an Elise a while ago. I'll be seeing him in a few weeks and hope to ask him some similar questions as I wonder about the Caterham
above. How did Lotus control the engine? Surely for testing they didn't have to develop an ECU themselves? etc.
That's about it. Any input obviously greatly appreciated.
Theoretically you could remove the majority of a Fiesta loom including the various sensors the ECU requires (many immobiliser related) and be able to
run the Ecoboost in a kit car.
The Ecoboost uses the usual ford bellhousing bolt pattern as found on Zetecs and Duratecs so plenty of inline gearbox options available.
I imagine Ford would be able to configure the Firmware on their ECU's to enable it to just 'see' what they want or is necessary for a
particular installation. Remember their road legal Formula Ford car!
The ECU would still need to be re-calibrated to run efficiently in its new environment though.
As mentioned in a previous post, more new aftermarket ECU's will become available and in increasingly competitive prices.
I guess Lotus have the resources to produce their own ECU configured for the Ecoboost in their cars, especially if it proves cheaper than buying and
recalibrating a Ford (Bosch) unit.
It 'only' cost us about £3000 initial layout to buy and recalibrate an aftermarket ECU to run the Ecoboost in our cars. Part of that cost
is recalibration which can now be incorporated (as a map) in all our ecu's for our cars.
Riot Squad,
Your mention of the bellhousing bolt pattern being compatible... does that also apply to the 1.0 Ecoboost, or just the 1.6?
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Riot Squad
Theoretically you could remove the majority of a Fiesta loom including the various sensors the ECU requires (many immobiliser related) and be able to run the Ecoboost in a kit car.
The Ecoboost uses the usual ford bellhousing bolt pattern as found on Zetecs and Duratecs so plenty of inline gearbox options available.
I imagine Ford would be able to configure the Firmware on their ECU's to enable it to just 'see' what they want or is necessary for a particular installation. Remember their road legal Formula Ford car!
The ECU would still need to be re-calibrated to run efficiently in its new environment though.
As mentioned in a previous post, more new aftermarket ECU's will become available and in increasingly competitive prices.
I guess Lotus have the resources to produce their own ECU configured for the Ecoboost in their cars, especially if it proves cheaper than buying and recalibrating a Ford (Bosch) unit.
It 'only' cost us about £3000 initial layout to buy and recalibrate an aftermarket ECU to run the Ecoboost in our cars. Part of that cost is recalibration which can now be incorporated (as a map) in all our ecu's for our cars.
Sorry, should have said the 1.0 Ecoboost is not the same as the 1.6 and as far as I'm aware it doesn't fit any other gearboxes (apart from some Peugeot Diesel I'm told) also I don't believe anyone produces an adaptor plate to fit an inline gearbox (yet).
Sorry again!, should be Zetec SE and Duratec. The 1.6 Ecoboost is similar to the Sigma engine.
This is why I wonder what they did in the Caterham for the gearbox
Are you proposing to run a eco boost engine without the drive by wire throttle, direct injection and variable valve timing? Surely that is what makes
it a eco boost engine and is fundamental to its operation.
That like saying i'm going to use a laptop to write an essay, then carving into it with a hammer and chisel like a stone tablet!!!
Some videos on Eco Boost technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaUDNhS1nrg&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw&feature=related
Hmm want one. Don't they do a 2.0 as well ?
Bad weather is good for accident damaged motors, best finish what I've got first. 
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Hmm want one. Don't they do a 2.0 as well ?
Bad weather is good for accident damaged motors, best finish what I've got first.
.......or if your really adventurous the yanks get a 3.5l twin turbo ecoboost rated at 365bhp straight out the box.
Really need a full car to reverse engineer the loom. What ever comes up cheapest.
""Are you proposing to run a eco boost engine without the drive by wire throttle, direct injection and variable valve timing? Surely that is
what makes it a eco boost engine and is fundamental to its operation.
That like saying i'm going to use a laptop to write an essay, then carving into it with a hammer and chisel like a stone tablet!!!
""
I personally prefer to have drive by wire and direct injection but it currently comes at quite a price.
Replacing the direct injection and drive by wire throttle does not fundamentally change the way the engine behaves and only has a small impact on its
performance (mpg and emissions). There was never any intent to remove the Variable cam timing btw.
The option of going to fuel injection and mechanical throttle means a "standard" aftermarket ECU can be used and most tuners can map it. The
calibration for DBT adds to the complexity of mapping. There is also no requirement for a direct Injection module and specific throttle pedal. So
along with simplifying the management comes a large saving in cost and easier access to a 200bhp turbo engine. In fact I would go as far as saying it
represents areal performance bargain.
That being said, it wont be long before there are more aftermarket ECU's available capable of managing the Ecoboost at much more competitive
prices and could make the above option redundant.
So more like having a tablet and attaching a keyboard.
quote:
Originally posted by DW100
Are you proposing to run a eco boost engine without the drive by wire throttle, direct injection and variable valve timing? Surely that is what makes it a eco boost engine and is fundamental to its operation.
That like saying i'm going to use a laptop to write an essay, then carving into it with a hammer and chisel like a stone tablet!!!
I appreciate that it makes for an easier installation, but without those bits its just another 3 cylinder engine with a turbo charger. Its the clever
calibration of the injection and is interaction with the throttle and cam timing that makes it what it is.
Hell if you so feel like it you could make it run on a carb and a set of points.
I run a 2.0 Zetec powered Mk1 Fiesta hillclimber on throttle bodies and Emerald ignition and have built many one offs and competition cars. I am not
adverse to modifying stuff and would love a go at this engine. It drives fantastic in standard form and I believe it has great potential to be tuned,
but it is the software that makes this engine what it is as much as the hardware.
[Edited on 16/7/15 by DW100]
The Limitation for power on the 1.6 Ecoboost is the GDi injectors.
For big power you need to add Port Fuel injection to the manifold too.
Specialist components are the people to speak to, Simon has been doing loads with all Variants of EcoBoost Engine.
For some clarity, as there seems to be some confusion.
1.0L Ecoboost - 3 Cyl, FORD Designed, Conventional Ford bellhousing pattern (same as used Pre Xflow right up to last Zetec)
1.6L Ecoboost - 4 Cylinder, Effectively Sigma (YAMAHA Designed) engine with dual VVT, turbo and GDi - Sigma Bellhousing pattern
2.0L Ecoboost - 4 cylinder, Effectively Duratec (MAZDA Designed) engine with dual VVT, turbo and GDi - Duratec Bellhousing pattern
3 different engines, 3 different Architectures, 3 Different bellhousing fitments, but all available.
Hope that helps
Dom
I went to ford fair at the beginning of august.
Mountune are easily squeezing 350bhp safely from the 1.6
Stock internals. They just change the bits on the out side. Turbo, injectors, gearbox internals.
Worth a call if your considering this route. They may have something to say about the ecu and fly by issues.
quote:
1.0L Ecoboost - 3 Cyl, FORD Designed, Conventional Ford bellhousing pattern (same as used Pre Xflow right up to last Zetec)
quote:
1.0L Ecoboost - 3 Cyl, FORD Designed, Conventional Ford bellhousing pattern (same as used Pre Xflow right up to last Zetec)
Dom