Board logo

Clutch problem
watsonpj - 15/12/15 at 10:15 PM

My thrust bearing is pretty much dead,noisy and gear selection is getting worse so I need to replace the clutch. Its a 2010 Leon 1.6tdi eco with 127000 and I rang today to get quotes. Main stealer £750 then small local (normally good trustworthy) £635 but he said with that many miles he would recommend a dual mass flywheel Aswell (another £365) and recommended I ring the main stealer back to check what they say.
So what do you guys think is the dual mass a must?
Is the price right,I've never paid more than about 350 for a clutch before I'm glad I was sitting down.
Cheers pete

CosKev3 - 15/12/15 at 10:28 PM

False economy IMO not changing the flywheel,as if it starts knocking in say a few months you've got all the labour to pay again to remove box and clutch to change flywheel.

Those prices sound a lot tbh,not sure on your particular engine though.

But on a 1.9PD VAG engine you can get Sachs DMF and clutch kit for not much over £300,local garages around here are circa £600 all in.

adithorp - 15/12/15 at 10:46 PM

With a DMF I'd guess at £600-700 (without checking the parts prices)... and I wouldn't be cutting my throat at that. I'd expect it'd need the DMF at the same time, though you can measure the play once it's apart, at that mileage i wouldn't recommend not doing it.

tims31 - 16/12/15 at 12:20 AM

I had to change the DMF on a Mondeo TDCi at 86,000 which was quite common on them around that mileage, local mechanic did it for £850, main stealer wanted £1350 :-O

The DMF on the Mondeo breaks down and contaminated the Clutch and swarf gets into the starter motor too. I was told the subframe had to be dropped which is why it costs so much to do, best to change the DMF the same time as the clutch if your going to do it.

snapper - 16/12/15 at 04:39 AM

Had a DMF done on a Mondeo as stated parts are £350 total was £650 cash
Job was done in 6 hours
Dropping a subframe is no big deal but locating it back properly is
I painted round the subframe mounts when I dropped it for TCA, left neat circular marks on the body to line up the mounts when I put it all back

Nickp - 16/12/15 at 06:28 AM

Have a look on EuroCarParts. A new DMF is £207 or for another £70 you can get a solid flywheel conversion so you'll never have to worry about the DMF again. Clutches range from £94-155 depending on quality. I'm pretty sure a garage should be able to beat these prices with their trade discount, if not then just take the parts with you

ian locostzx9rc2 - 16/12/15 at 06:44 AM

As said change the dual mass at the same time it will be worn don't fit a solid flywheel as for prices that's down to you remember garages are a business with big over heads and have to make a profit on the PARTs and labour or there go out of business .

Nickp - 16/12/15 at 06:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
As said change the dual mass at the same time it will be worn don't fit a solid flywheel as for prices that's down to you remember garages are a business with big over heads and have to make a profit on the PARTs and labour or there go out of business .


Why not fit a solid flywheel? Does it create issues? Just wondering, as it seems to make sense to me especially if you intend to keep a car.
Don't garages make money on parts through their trade discount anymore? Or is this a thing of the past? I don't think you should be charged more for parts than you can collect quality ones from your local ECP on the way to the garage IMHO.

britishtrident - 16/12/15 at 07:09 AM

A DMFcan be checked by measuring the angular movement, but at such a high mileage I would just replace.
Fords Mondeos and Transits aside how long a DMF lasts is more to do with driver habits than anything else.

hizzi - 16/12/15 at 11:04 AM

refit the dual mass flywheel they are there for a reason. they take the shock out the crank. i removed the dual mass on my discovery3 and the engine shit itself ten thousand miles later and left a 5k bill

Nickp - 16/12/15 at 11:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
refit the dual mass flywheel they are there for a reason. they take the shock out the crank. i removed the dual mass on my discovery3 and the engine poo itself ten thousand miles later and left a 5k bill


How did we ever manage before them then?

MikeRJ - 16/12/15 at 11:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
refit the dual mass flywheel they are there for a reason. they take the shock out the crank. i removed the dual mass on my discovery3 and the engine poo itself ten thousand miles later and left a 5k bill


How did we ever manage before them then?


We managed by not having diesel engines that produce ridiculously high peak cylinder pressures and the subsequent high levels of torsional vibration.

The DMF is there to both reduce NVH levels, and to protect the drive train from the very high peak torque cycles.

Manufacturers haven't spent large sums of money developing DMFs and then adding extra overhead to each car purely for their own amusement.

[Edited on 16/12/15 by MikeRJ]

Nickp - 16/12/15 at 01:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
refit the dual mass flywheel they are there for a reason. they take the shock out the crank. i removed the dual mass on my discovery3 and the engine poo itself ten thousand miles later and left a 5k bill


How did we ever manage before them then?


We managed by not having diesel engines that produce ridiculously high peak cylinder pressures and the subsequent high levels of torsional vibration.

The DMF is there to both reduce NVH levels, and to protect the drive train from the very high peak torque cycles.

Manufacturers haven't spent large sums of money developing DMFs and then adding extra overhead to each car purely for their own amusement.

[Edited on 16/12/15 by MikeRJ]


So it's not just to disguise bad driving technique and make there cars a bit smoother for buffoons then?

Yeah can't imagine a manufacturer adding a component with a limited service life that they'd have to supply and probably fit at some point down the line. Cynical me? Nah

BTW, I've just replaced the DMF on my M52 328i engine with a solid flywheel. It's not diesel, I don't think it has ridiculous cylinder pressures and high peak torque cycles and is actually a silky smooth straight 6.

Sorry to OP for going off track slightly.

britishtrident - 16/12/15 at 04:03 PM

I can understand DMFs to disguise the roughness of nasty horrible polluting diesels but they fit them to petrol engines as well.
Diesels, engines with odd numbers of cylinders and all V6s are the work of the devil.

Adamirish - 16/12/15 at 04:43 PM

I personally would go solid flywheel. Just as a bit of proof if nothing else, a friend of mine has a highly tuned PD bora(no, I don't know why either). Standard 100bhp crank with 150 pistons and rods. It's well over 220 bhp and around 350-400ft/lb. solid flywheel. It gets hammered and the crank is still in one piece. The engine 3 years ago was north of 200k miles. It's still going now.

I have heard of the cranks getting a hard time but I personally think it's just scare tactics. As has already been said, before the devil produced DMF's engines were fine even if they didn't quite have as much torque as modern cars.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 16/12/15 at 05:19 PM

Please don't fit a solid flywheel as others have said dmfs are fitted for a reason I have seen a lot of snapped and cracked crankshafts because people what to save a few quid its a lot more common than you would think

MikeRJ - 22/12/15 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
So it's not just to disguise bad driving technique and make there cars a bit smoother for buffoons then?


No, it's so the main advantage of a modern turbo diesel (huge amounts of torque at low RPM) can be exploited without putting huge cyclic stress through the drivetrain, and also reduces the vibration and noise transmitted through to the cabin.

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
Yeah can't imagine a manufacturer adding a component with a limited service life that they'd have to supply and probably fit at some point down the line. Cynical me? Nah


Are you confusing car manufactures with the dealers? I don't know of any car manufacturers that get money for fitting parts after they have sold a car.

The vast majority of replacement DMFs will be sourced direct from the original equipment or alternative manufactures (Sachs, Luk etc) and fitted by independent garages. The car manufacturer makes no money at all from this. Even if you were silly enough to use a dealer and pay through the nose for the same DMF packaged in a box with the car manufacturers logo on it, the manufacturer only makes the overhead they put on the part which is peanuts in the scheme of things. The dealer still gets the money for fitting it.

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I can understand DMFs to disguise the roughness of nasty horrible polluting diesels but they fit them to petrol engines as well.
Diesels, engines with odd numbers of cylinders and all V6s are the work of the devil.


It's primarily for NVH reasons in petrols, and I would be less concerned about using a solid flywheel replacement. However they tend to be very reliable in petrol engines as they have an easier life.

I agree with your thoughts on diesels, horrible engines, but I do like petrol engines with an odd numbers of cylinders. 5 is an especially good number, significantly smoother than a 4 with a lovely noise.

nick205 - 22/12/15 at 05:33 PM

From what I've heard DMFs are best replaced including the flywheel itself for peace of mind.

My local VAG specialist (ex Audi mechanics) are well known and I trust their word on this approach.

At 127k miles I'd do the whole thing and drive happy for a while.

I ran a Leon PD150 diesel for nearly 100k and kicked it to bits, when it went the clutch was slipping! But, as a co. car I have to be honest and say I didn't really care too much.

watsonpj - 29/12/15 at 11:57 PM

Had it done yesterday and the fault was with the dmf. It had partially failed and so the inner was running eccentrically to the outer. There was an area that had been worn away where the clutch had been rubbing against it. Money well spent it seems.
Pete