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Pass B+E now advise on the trailer
ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 05:58 PM

On Monday I passed my B+E test so i can now tow a MAM train weight of 7 tonnes.

Are there any laws not guidelines on matching a car to a trailer? I assume just cannot excced the max train weight of the tow car which is MAM of the car plus the MAM of the trailer.

I know the guide lines are the trailer should be 80% of the ulw of the tow car.

[Edited on 15/1/16 by ash_hammond]

[Edited on 15/1/16 by ash_hammond]

Slimy38 - 15/1/16 at 06:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ash_hammond

I know the guide lines are the trailer should be 80% of the ulw of the tow car.


I thought all production cars have a max towing weight (braked and unbraked), isn't that more applicable than simply 80% of the tow car unladen weight? You're not going to be in a good place if you're towing beyond the car's capability.

ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 06:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by ash_hammond

I know the guide lines are the trailer should be 80% of the ulw of the tow car.


I thought all production cars have a max towing weight (braked and unbraked), isn't that more applicable than simply 80% of the tow car unladen weight? You're not going to be in a good place if you're towing beyond the car's capability.


This is what i think is now referred to as train weight. So of the car has a max train weight of 4 tonnes braked. The train weight is worked by adding the mam of the trailer to the mam of the car and it should not exceed 4 tonnes.

sdh2903 - 15/1/16 at 06:30 PM

What car are you towing with?

ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 06:39 PM

I'm going to view a 2003 2.2d espace on Sunday. This is the reason for me asking as I want to make the it is fit for purpose. The trailor that i have access to has man of 1800kg iirc

sdh2903 - 15/1/16 at 07:22 PM

If you check parkers it will give you the max towing weights. For that car it's 2000kg braked.

ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 07:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
If you check parkers it will give you the max towing weights. For that car it's 2000kg braked.


I agree, I have seen that too. However, I wanted something more concrete rather than what parkers said.

For example my Mazda CX5 company (which I cannot use) has 4 weights on the VIN Axel 1 weight, Axel 2 weight, gross vehicle weight (MAM) and max train weight MAM.

The max train weight is 4035kg and the gross weight is 2035kg which by my maths means the trailer can have MAM of 2000kg. Which breaks the whole industry standard of 85% of the tow vehicles kerb weight as that is 1555kg and could make the trailer heavier than the car... as said here.

"Stick to the 85% guideline, and the Mazda CX-5 will pull plenty of mid-sized caravans. It is legally permitted to pull almost 400kg more than it weighs, but Practical Caravan’s testers strongly recommend towing no more than its kerbweight, even if you’re an experienced caravanner. It also has an 88kg towball limit.

907 - 15/1/16 at 08:03 PM

It will be on a plate under the bonnet, or in the handbook.


Or here. (just change the make and model)


http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp


Paul G

Bluemoon - 15/1/16 at 08:17 PM

"I know the guide lines are the trailer should be 80% of the ulw of the tow car. "

This is a good guide but I think you can go to 100%.

The above only applies if the car and trailer are plated to this level.

This mayhelp: http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/gettingstarted/newtocaravans/whatcanitow/

and this:

file:///C:/Users/Rebecca/Downloads/Matching-car-van.pdf

[Edited on 15/1/16 by Bluemoon]

ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 08:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 907
It will be on a plate under the bonnet, or in the handbook.


Or here. (just change the make and model)


http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp


Paul G


Thanks Paul. I agree with you, my opinion to be 100% legal. The MAM of the car which is stamped on the car VIN plate, added to the MAM of the trailer which is stamped trailer on the cannot exceed the gross vehicle train weight which is stamped on the car VIN plate too. I believe the reason why vosa and plod use use these figures is they don't have a road side weigh bridge and they can only divert you a few miles to check the real weight.

So if the car train weight is exceeded the is 3 points (CU50) and £60 fine.

If you follow the link below the Escape 2.2 is allowed to pull 2000kg which is a few 100 kg over its kerb weight and deffo breaks the 85% advise "legally".

motorcycle_mayhem - 15/1/16 at 08:45 PM

"The max train weight is 4035kg and the gross weight is 2035kg which by my maths means the trailer can have MAM of 2000kg. Which breaks the whole industry standard of 85% of the tow vehicles kerb weight as that is 1555kg and could make the trailer heavier than the car... as said here".

My experience is that when you're pulled in by the bored policeman and inspected by the bored VOSA team, it's what's on the VIN plate that will decide if you're impounded or fined (or both).

What Parker's say and what the Caravan Club advise isn't worth anything. Your maths is correct.

ash_hammond - 15/1/16 at 08:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
"The max train weight is 4035kg and the gross weight is 2035kg which by my maths means the trailer can have MAM of 2000kg. Which breaks the whole industry standard of 85% of the tow vehicles kerb weight as that is 1555kg and could make the trailer heavier than the car... as said here".

My experience is that when you're pulled in by the bored policeman and inspected by the bored VOSA team, it's what's on the VIN plate that will decide if you're impounded or fined (or both).

What Parker's say and what the Caravan Club advise isn't worth anything. Your maths is correct.


Thanks

907 - 15/1/16 at 08:48 PM

I bought an Alco chassis new and made the rest of the trailer.

Plated it to suit what the trailer weighed (420kg) and what I would be likely to carry. (up to 1000kg)

Tow car is a Passat estate 1.9TDI 130 = 1700 braked towing capacity.


Note a bit of leeway for tools etc.


Paul G

motorcycle_mayhem - 16/1/16 at 10:46 AM

"Thanks"

No problem, I've been pulled in many times. The only thing that has mattered is what is on the VIN. They'll weigh each axle on the trailer, then each axle on the car. The bored policeman will check all the legal details and insist that the VOSA team identify a fault on either the towing vehicle or the trailer.

The worst case of police harassment of the VOSA team happened at the Taunton centre. I was pulled off the M5 on my way to Castle Combe, spending 2 hours at the VOSA station while this individual argued over every decision that the (very professional) VOSA team made on the roadworthiness of the train. He then began on the contents of the trailer, which despite being road registered, in my name (and in a trailer) and even road-legal, was something I had stolen and wasn't terribly road legal... The experience has made me very edgy about towing regulation and even less respectful of the yobs in uniform.

Obviously, you'll make sure that the lights work, the tyres are all good and that the train sits level. You'll be towing with a new, expensive car, pulling a new expensive trailer. You shouldn't get pulled in as often. I have an old Transhit, simply because of the space, the GTW (5500Kg) and it's what is best for the job.

The only additional grief I get with the Transhit, which others won't, is that the uniformed thugs (police) have the option of pursuing a 'business use' agenda. The thug at Taunton tried that too, nearly managing to impound me due to lack of Tachograph.

coozer - 16/1/16 at 03:11 PM

Forget the 85% rule, it's long been superseded by manufacturers testing and declaring the towing weight. Unless of course your using an hold motor.

All you need to do is make sure the car is actually homolgamated for towing, not all models are, and follow the towing weights on the V5.

If its a normal car and trailer you won't get near the MAM so don't worry. If you want to use a transit tipper with a big trailer make sure your not over it!

The tare of my truck is 8 tons for the unit, 10 tons for the trailer with a total MAM of 44 tons. So I can carrry a 27 ton maximum payload.

If the escape has 2000kg braked on the V5 your ok. If your worried about it check the weights out and make sure your under.

ash_hammond - 16/1/16 at 05:25 PM

What do you call a nornal trailer? The car transporter trailers i can hire from my local tow place all have a MAM of 3500kg. This added to the MAM of my car takes it over the MAM train weight theoretically, even though if the unit was placed on a weigh bridge would be physically under. I dont see at the roaside how plod and vosa can use anything other than the MAM weights on the VIN plates. If they do not use them they are a a simplying of you are over loaded or not.