Board logo

Any BMW i3 owners on here?
craig1410 - 17/10/16 at 04:59 PM

Hi,

We test drove an all-electric BMW i3 last week for 48 hours and were very very impressed. It was the latest model with the 94 Ah battery but without the range extender and is perfectly suitable for my wife to use for her 35 mile round-trip commute. She absolutely loved it and the chances are high that we will put in an order this week.

The car we're probably looking at is a new i3 electric only with 'Loft' interior and eucalyptus dash with the sport package, aux cabin heat pump and metallic 'Protonic Blue' paint. We will get £4500 off from the gov't and £3200 off from BMW Finance as a deposit contribution. We can also get a free BMW i-Wallbox Pro installation so we'll be able to charge the car in around 4 hours compared to the usual 11+.

It's not a cheap car obviously but knowing a bit about the cost of the components such as the batteries and motor, not to mention the carbon fibre shell and other niceties, I actually think it's pretty good value, especially when you no longer need to buy petrol.

So, I just wondered if there are any other i3 owners (past or present) out there who might have opinions to share, good or bad?

Some interesting vids here if anyone is interested:
i3 Teardown (the report from this will cost you $500k per copy!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8
i3 Production (part 1 of 4): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt1k3BLN7pw

Cheers,
Craig.

[Edited on 17/10/2016 by craig1410]

sonic - 17/10/16 at 07:23 PM

Hi I am interested to know how much it costs to charge one of these on say a 4 hrs fast charge, I bet the meter goes into overdrive.

craig1410 - 17/10/16 at 07:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sonic
Hi I am interested to know how much it costs to charge one of these on say a 4 hrs fast charge, I bet the meter goes into overdrive.


it's a 240V / 32A feed to the charger and the figures I've seen suggest it's about £2.50 for a full charge if you do it at home.

However, you can also use a number of free or lower cost charging stations including some fast chargers which charge at 50kW so can charge the car from virtually empty to 80% in 30-40 mins. The fast chargers don't run as fast for the remaining 20% so the best way to charge is to use the fast charger to 80% then top it off at home. We used a local fast charger twice and it really was very convenient as it was right next to a large retail park so my wife was able to shop while charging. There are a surprising number of chargers even around central scotland where we live so elsewhere in the UK will undoubtedly be even better.

Edit: I couldn't find this earlier but here is a calculation done by an i3 owner albeit this was for the 60AHr model. http://www.i3guide.com/charging.html#cost

So, roughly 2.6p / mile. That should be the same for the 94Ah model too because it has proportionally longer range.

[Edited on 17/10/2016 by craig1410]

sonic - 17/10/16 at 09:43 PM

How do they compare in terms of cost of ownership say over 4 years against a conventional super mini, servicing, warranty, parts, tyres etc

craig1410 - 17/10/16 at 11:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sonic
How do they compare in terms of cost of ownership say over 4 years against a conventional super mini, servicing, warranty, parts, tyres etc


Ask me that in 4 years time!

I believe servicing involves a service after 2 years to replace brake fluid and cabin filters and do a vehicle inspection. Then I'm told it is yearly after that. You can get a 5 year service plan for £375 from BMW which seems reasonable. Link here: https://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/topics/ownership/service/service-plans/i-service-inclusive.html

Warranty is the usual 3 years for most things but the batteries are warrantied for 8 years or 100000 miles.

Tyres are fairly unusual but BMW will charge about £150 IIRC or you can get them from camskill for around £100 each.
Links here:
Front: http://camskill.co.uk/m55b0s8725p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_19_inch_R19_inch_-_155_70_19_155_70R19_OE_BMW
Back: http://camskill.co.uk/m55b0s8726p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_19_inch_R19_inch_-_175_60_19_175_60R19_OE_BMW

Parts I don't know about but generally I have found over the last 3 years of owning a 535d that genuine BMW parts aren't all that expensive for what they are. I've done quite a bit of DIY maintenance and repairs to my car and have no complaints. Obviously some of the special parts such as motor and batteries will be expensive (and not a DIY repair due to danger of electrocution) but things like brake pad replacement and other minor repairs should be straightforward enough.

The main cost of ownership for a new car of course is depreciation but BMW seem very keen to maintain the 2nd hand prices of cars by offering attractive finance plans so that the cars are kept maintained and within the circles of the BMW dealers. You'll struggle to find a private seller selling an i3. Also, when looking at depreciation figures, bear in mind that £4500 of the RRP is paid by the government so although that is included in the depreciation figures, it was never really paid in the first place by the owner. That is a very important thing to remember.

Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!

HTH,
Craig.

[Edited on 18/10/2016 by craig1410]

rf900rush - 18/10/16 at 07:25 AM

My question would be, how much would a new battery pack cost when the warranty runs out.

You may sell the car, say with 1 year warranty left, but who would buy it with a risk of needing to buy a new battery pack 1 year later.

I looked at the G-wiz briefly (don't laugh) for cheap motoring, but when the battery replace cost was included , the running cost was close to my 2.5l Subaru Outback.

I know Batteries have improved greatly, but they all die at some point.

May be a personal lease hire, and leave the battery problem to them?

DJT - 18/10/16 at 11:19 AM

quote:

Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!


That is interesting. Not so long ago I followed an i8 up the M3, through the contraflow. The traffic was stop start up to the 50mph average limit. I wasn't following too closely, but the first couple of times the i8 slowed I found myself heading quickly towards his rear bumper. I assume when the car regenerates on overrun it does not apply the brake lights. However, the car still slows significantly quicker than my coasting auto! It might be better if the brake lights did illuminiate in this scenario.

Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.

Jamesc - 18/10/16 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DJT

Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.


That's more likely to be the 1.5L petrol engine that generates 220hp!

britishtrident - 18/10/16 at 02:22 PM

A friend has a Renault Zoe and has tried commuting Blantyre-Edinburgh with it. Edinburgh is within range but the batery is close to 1/8th charge at the end this is with a new brand battery in summer temperatures and no major inclines enroute.
Re-charging at the other end was free but the question is how long is free charging going to remain free? In winter the battery efficiency will be lower and the heating is powered by the battery.

craig1410 - 19/10/16 at 08:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rf900rush
My question would be, how much would a new battery pack cost when the warranty runs out.

You may sell the car, say with 1 year warranty left, but who would buy it with a risk of needing to buy a new battery pack 1 year later.

I looked at the G-wiz briefly (don't laugh) for cheap motoring, but when the battery replace cost was included , the running cost was close to my 2.5l Subaru Outback.

I know Batteries have improved greatly, but they all die at some point.

May be a personal lease hire, and leave the battery problem to them?


The battery pack is split into 8 modules, each of which can be replaced individually. That said, yes they are currently expensive, £1000 or so for a module, but in 8 years time that cost will be a lot lower because there will be a lot more electric cars on the road by then and battery costs will drop just as we have seen with solar panels. Also, I will probably be looking to change car after 5 or 6 years at most so it'll be someone else's problem.

craig1410 - 19/10/16 at 09:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DJT
quote:

Edit: I should also point out, having driven an i3, that you can drive 99% of the time without touching the brakes so the only wear they are likely to have is oxidisation which will be cleaned off every so often. Seriously, one-pedal driving is great!


That is interesting. Not so long ago I followed an i8 up the M3, through the contraflow. The traffic was stop start up to the 50mph average limit. I wasn't following too closely, but the first couple of times the i8 slowed I found myself heading quickly towards his rear bumper. I assume when the car regenerates on overrun it does not apply the brake lights. However, the car still slows significantly quicker than my coasting auto! It might be better if the brake lights did illuminiate in this scenario.

Another thing that surpsied me was how much heat haze there was emitted from the rear roof when moving at these slower speeds. I assume this is heat generated through inefficiencies in the motor controller or similar.


As someone else said the i8 has a powerful combustion engine so thats where the heat haze would be from. The i3 is extremely efficient in terms of its motor so highly unlikely to produce much waste heat.

As for brake lights, actually it DOES illuminate them under regen braking as this was something I specifically asked about and then verified myself. I could see my brake lights reflected one night as I was being followed by a double decker bus. It seems to sense deceleration levels though so won't light up if you are slowing just a little bit.

In stop-start traffic, there is a £790 option for the i3 to let it do the stopping and starting and steering for you. It will basically crawl along at a set distance from the car in front, keeping in lane and will even come to a halt and start again when the traffic moves. You must grip the wheel or it will disable itself but apart from that it will do everything! Very tempted to get that option!

craig1410 - 19/10/16 at 09:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
A friend has a Renault Zoe and has tried commuting Blantyre-Edinburgh with it. Edinburgh is within range but the batery is close to 1/8th charge at the end this is with a new brand battery in summer temperatures and no major inclines enroute.
Re-charging at the other end was free but the question is how long is free charging going to remain free? In winter the battery efficiency will be lower and the heating is powered by the battery.


Some charging stations already charge for this service (pardon the pun) but many are free and likely to remain free, especially while electric cars are a minority. I'm sure it won't all be plain (plane?) sailing as the charging schemes need money to scale up as adoption increases but it's always going to be cheaper than burning old dinosaurs whatever happens.

Yes in winter the battery efficiency drops but the i3 has a heating and cooling system built into the battery packs which uses the same stuff as the air con. This allows you to "pre-condition" the batteries to an optimum temperature before you unplug from the mains. You can also use this feature to heat and de-ice/de-mist the cabin. We used this one morning and my wife immediately fell in love with the car! You can set it on a 7 day timer and control it from the mobile phone app.

As for heating, yes it is done from the electric power but the i3 has an option of a heat pump (auxiliary cabin heater) for £530 which works like an air-conditioner in reverse and takes heat from the outside air and pumps it inside. It is a standard option in scandanavian countries and can get heat even from sub-zero outside air. This feature greatly increases cabin heating efficiency. We're planning to get this feature too.

DJT - 19/10/16 at 12:53 PM

I was reading today, that from 2030, EVs only will be allowed to be registered in Germany. The cut-off is 2025 for the Netherlands! I suppose the internal combustion engines on the German manufacturers' drawing boards right now will possibly be the last. At least for EU markets.

craig1410 - 19/10/16 at 01:07 PM

Yeah I read that too which is why I'm not too worried about jumping on the band-wagon now. Yeah, early-adopters always pay a bit more and take some pain but the i3 is a hoot to drive so it's got its compensations!

rm0rgan - 21/11/16 at 04:50 PM

I had a BMW i3 94ah ReX delivered Friday for an extended test drive...will be interesting to see how I get on with it as I'm a fairly high mileage driver (but many of them within the Battery range)...about 80/20

I'm currently leasing a Nissan QQ 1.5dci Tekna and it's a lovely thing to drive - very quiet and economical having averaged mid 50's mpg since new but I have just crossed over 45,000 miles in 29 months and I'm paying £318 a month (annoyingly, even though I told them I would be doing 20k pa they based the lease on 15k pa so will need to pay some penalty mileage when it goes back however BMW have indicated they might take care of this or at least a large share of it in any settlement figure we agree if I place an order before Xmas) - shows how keen they are to push their new technology.

BMW have offered me a 2-year lease based on 20,000 miles pa at 0% apr. The Government currently pay £4500 and BMW will pay a £3500 deposit contribution (I can extend the lease to 3 or 4 years if I want afterwards but then I pay interest at about 2.9%). Anyhow, as it stands, if I put nothing into the deal (why would I, it's 0% credit!) the cost per month with Sports Pack (which includes LED headlights, Harmon & Kardon speakers, privacy glass), Met Paint, Professional Sat Nav upgrade and servicing comes in at £630 pm...

So, the man maths here for those who just had a sharp intake of breath at the lease per month cost is I'm currently sticking on average £300/£350 a month of fuel into my QQ, so add that to my lease cost of £318 and I'm pretty much equal to the monthly cost of the i3 ReX plus all the toys. I get back on average £500 - £600 a month in mileage expenses from my employer, so assuming I will cover 80% of all my journeys on EV power alone I should be around £200-£300 a month better off - we have free charging at work too and I will use as many of the free fast charge points as I can as I travel about on business and ReX for the rest.

So far I'm loving it - the instant torque is a real hoot and it is properly quick and incredibly refined - you can barely hear the ReX if it kicks in.

In fact, I'm so impressed, I've asked the dealership to build up a deal for two identical cars to what I want and base the mileage at 10,000 each so my wife can have one too (she currently has a Smart car and this costs her about £150 a month in lease, servicing and fuel - she does very little mileage so I will just drive the one with the least mileage each time to keep them in sync) - So my challenge to them today is to get me two identical cars for under £800 a month, give me a free charging box for home and I'll sign the order when I give the car back at the end of this week - it really is that good!

BMW are offering extended test drives so I'd recommend anyone to get to their local dealer and experience it :-)

David Jenkins - 21/11/16 at 06:01 PM

I don't know if you've seen this?

YouTube

He does get a bit "hippy" towards the end...

(I tried to put this up using the YouTube button in the editor, but it didn't work - maybe the hyphen is screwing it up).

[Edited on 21/11/16 by David Jenkins]

rm0rgan - 21/11/16 at 09:10 PM

Yes - I quite like his videos!

TimC - 21/11/16 at 11:01 PM

That's not too bad (£630pcm) - like you I'm doing that sort of mileage. The only thing is bangernomics seems to still be c.£1500-2000pa cheaper. At some point I'll get tired of having the oldest car in the car park - particularly since I run the place...

I've just spotted where you are - which dealer are you using?

[Edited on 21/11/16 by TimC]

rm0rgan - 22/11/16 at 07:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by TimC
That's not too bad (£630pcm) - like you I'm doing that sort of mileage. The only thing is bangernomics seems to still be c.£1500-2000pa cheaper. At some point I'll get tired of having the oldest car in the car park - particularly since I run the place...

I've just spotted where you are - which dealer are you using?

[Edited on 21/11/16 by TimC]


I'm using Cotswold BWM Hereford but they are part of the same group as the Gloucester dealership - the 'i-team' in both have been superb (so far) - properly going the extra mile to ensure I can experience it in my daily life.

One think I already know though is you'd have to have a charge box installed as it takes too long to recharge off the 3-pin box given the times I get in and go out...

craig1410 - 22/11/16 at 08:32 AM

Re the 32A charge point, you can receive this fully funded, at least in Scotland, through a combination of OLEV grant and Energy Saving Tryst top-up funding. Let me know if you want more details. I've got an application in progress with http://jorro.co.uk to install mine but there are other installers authorised on this scheme.

Cheers,
Craig.

rm0rgan - 24/11/16 at 08:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Re the 32A charge point, you can receive this fully funded, at least in Scotland, through a combination of OLEV grant and Energy Saving Tryst top-up funding. Let me know if you want more details. I've got an application in progress with http://jorro.co.uk to install mine but there are other installers authorised on this scheme.

Cheers,
Craig.


Stunning - the BMW dealership gave me details of a funded project to install free charging points via Electric Nation, so should be able to get one via this scheme for free :-)

craig1410 - 15/12/16 at 01:25 AM

FYI, I got my charge point installed today. The Jorro guys did a good job and were easy to work with but I've got to say, £500 from OLEV plus £349 from EST is quite a lot for what amounted to a 6mm radial circuit of about 12m length inside plastic conduit with the charge point itself having very few internal parts. They took just over an hour from start to finish for a two man team. The guys said they are doing around 3 installations a day so it sounds like good business for installers.

Anyway, still another 6 weeks or so to wait for the i3...

rm0rgan - 15/12/16 at 08:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
FYI, I got my charge point installed today. The Jorro guys did a good job and were easy to work with but I've got to say, £500 from OLEV plus £349 from EST is quite a lot for what amounted to a 6mm radial circuit of about 12m length inside plastic conduit with the charge point itself having very few internal parts. They took just over an hour from start to finish for a two man team. The guys said they are doing around 3 installations a day so it sounds like good business for installers.

Anyway, still another 6 weeks or so to wait for the i3...


I guess they need to recover the initial investment on R&D etc...my box is being fitted in Feb, the car may arrive a few weeks earlier but we will see...I can always ReX/use the 3 pin plug to charge in the interim...

I changed my deal in the end to 4 years at 2.9% apr as I'm not convinced the grants and deals will still be around in 2 years time and wanted the option to keep the car longer just in case. I found out that the finance rate at the end of the 2 years interest-free period shoots up to around 7.9% so over 4 years works out more expensive - the net effect is this has dropped my payments down to £526 a month even with the addition of the Suite interior (leather), so I'm quite happy with that!

Roll on mid/end Jan (assuming dates don't change!)

craig1410 - 15/12/16 at 10:56 AM

Yeah we went with the 2.9% APR deal over 4 years as well as it's a pretty good rate, especially given the 'contribution' given towards the sale price by BMW finance. I expect they do this to stop customers going for the government interest free loan scheme. From the dealer's point of view it's always better to control the buying experience from end to end.

Another reason for going with the 4 year term is to give the industry a bit more time to mature before our next EV purchase. Two years will be gone in a flash, and of course the negotiations over a replacement will begin after 15 to 18 months and that's just too soon for me. I'm sure there are people who enjoy changing their car every year or two but I'm not one of them. I prefer to keep a car for a few years and get to know it and, more importantly, give myself time to recover from the stress of the purchase decision and process. As you say, who knows what offers or grants will still be around in 2 years time. The same is true in 4 years time of course but by then at least the cost of the batteries will be significantly lower and perhaps grants will no longer be necessary to make a purchase affordable.

rm0rgan - 22/2/17 at 07:08 PM

Craig, so how are you getting on with your i3?

I picked mine up last week and have covered 1000 miles so far and absolutely loving it. Still waiting to have my charge point fitted at home but getting by with the OUC for now. Not a day goes by when I don't find a new feature or something that makes me go Oooooo.

Longest trip so far was Ross on Wye to Plymouth which wasn't as cheap as my trip to London the day before - I got two free rapid charges at Mini Oxford , one on the way there, and another on the way back and used about 3/4 a tank of fuel (my choice to burn fuel as I needed to protect my charge level as much charge as possible as I was leaving at 6:30 am the following morning. So, a grand total of £7.85 in fuel for that one - a total of 270 odd miles.

Plymouth was a slightly different story - Full tank and a rapid Charge in Exeter got me down to Plymouth and then another charge/top up of the tank in Bristol, before EV'ing it all the way home...so somewhere around the £20 mark for the 330 odd mile trip and thoroughly enjoyed it!

Interior is a work of art - totally futuristic and feels like an event whenever you step in the car....:-)

craig1410 - 22/2/17 at 07:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan
Craig, so how are you getting on with your i3?

I picked mine up last week and have covered 1000 miles so far and absolutely loving it. Still waiting to have my charge point fitted at home but getting by with the OUC for now. Not a day goes by when I don't find a new feature or something that makes me go Oooooo.

Longest trip so far was Ross on Wye to Plymouth which wasn't as cheap as my trip to London the day before - I got two free rapid charges at Mini Oxford , one on the way there, and another on the way back and used about 3/4 a tank of fuel (my choice to burn fuel as I needed to protect my charge level as much charge as possible as I was leaving at 6:30 am the following morning. So, a grand total of £7.85 in fuel for that one - a total of 270 odd miles.

Plymouth was a slightly different story - Full tank and a rapid Charge in Exeter got me down to Plymouth and then another charge/top up of the tank in Bristol, before EV'ing it all the way home...so somewhere around the £20 mark for the 330 odd mile trip and thoroughly enjoyed it!

Interior is a work of art - totally futuristic and feels like an event whenever you step in the car....:-)


Hi,
Yeah we're loving ours too, done something like 1300 miles so far (1241 in fact having checked the connected drive app with the car 6 miles away!)

My wife is the main driver of the i3 as I work from home full time now but I find any excuse I can to take it for a spin when she's home. It just has a special feeling to drive that's hard to explain but I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.

Our longest trip was at the weekend when we went to visit my Dad on his birthday. It was from Kilmarnock to Whithorn and back in the same day. That's about 82 miles each way and we did about another 12 miles around Whithorn. So around 175 miles for the day. Our i3 is BEV only so we had an excuse to explore some of the charge points en route plus we plugged in at my Dad's house. We stopped at Newton Stewart on the way down and used the CCS charger to do a quick 15 minute top up. We would have stopped a bit longer but we were expected for lunch so had to cut it short. Then on the way back home we stopped in Girvan for another top-up on a CCS charger. These 50kW chargers are really the key to making electric cars practical for medium distances as you can add significant charge/range in a relatively short period of time. Combining those with a 32A charger at home works really well for us.

The drive to my Dad's and back was really good fun where on the way down I was trying to drive efficiently and then on the way back I was driving pretty swiftly as I knew we had plenty of charge. It takes a bit of practice to get used to the regeneration when driving quickly cross-country but I was getting pretty good at it by the end of the journey. In a normal car you'd might lift off the throttle and hover above the brake as you approach a sequence of corners, waiting to see if you are clear to go "through" the corners or if a speed adjustment is required in order to go around them in the event of traffic. If you do that in the i3 you tend to lose too much speed due to regen so a slightly different approach is needed. This isn't flat out driving or anything, just the sort of driving you might do on roads you know very well where you are trying to keep good, smooth momentum and "flow".

As you say, the interior is really nice but in a very unconventional, but refreshing way. I could say that about pretty much everything to do with the car so far actually. Probably one of the coolest features is the preconditioning where you can set it for a departure time and it will warm the interior up and defrost/demist the windows in the 15 mins leading up to departure. Nothing better than just walking out of the house without a jacket on and jumping in and driving away while the neighbours are in hats and gloves scraping their windscreens!

rm0rgan - 16/10/17 at 03:24 PM

So, Thought I'd share some thoughts on my past 7 months of EV ownership.... having covered 13,500 miles I thought some of you would be interested in how it's been...

Background is after being taken for a ride in my bosses Tesla S (the stupidly fast version), it showed me just how smooth, silent and quick an electric car could be, so it was this that made me go looking at options and in the end, I got to a week-long test drive in the BMW i3 REX - Cotswold BMW in Hereford pretty much surpassed every car buying experience I had before (and this included Audi, Jags, Range Rovers and Mercs) and by the time I had reached the end of the road I knew the i3 was totally different to anything I had driven before...

Ok, so it does look a little 'challenging' from certain (many!) angles but inside it is streets ahead of the others in terms of design, including the Tesla I had been in before (and this was also the opinion of my boss who owns it saying it oozed quality). The design won't be to everyone's taste but to me, it's a work of art and on a completely different level to the normal drab interiors you see in cars these days - the use of recycled materials makes it feel entirely different and the application of tech makes the whole experience more engaging.

It's quick too - surprisingly quick - from 0 to 40, it will pretty much surprise everything off the line but that's not really the point - it's how with the instant burst of speed comes proper agility - it's RWD so has that trademark planted feel that you only really get in RWD cars and given how skinny the wheels are I'm amazed it handles as well as it does.

So, what's it like to live with - well, I've covered just over 13,500 miles now, with about 1,000 or so of those using petrol via the Range Extender - the tank only holds a gallon or so of unleaded and this gives you about an 80-90 miles extended range (remember, the petrol engine does not drive the wheels in the i3, it acts as a generator) which means on average I'm currently returning somewhere around 1000 mpg!

I've added about £20 a month to my electric bill which is less than I expected (mainly as I tend to charge at work for free or while I am out and about so rarely arrive home empty of charge and so just top up) - it takes about £2.50 of electric to charge it from flat and this gives me about 120 - 140 miles of EV range. My BMW Chargemaster card costs me £7.50 a month and this gives me access to around 5,000 charge points across the UK (but I generally only stop at rapid chargers where it takes a max of half an hour to take me from flat to about 90% - the last 10% takes longer as it incorporates some cell management).

Cost - it's not a cheap car but you have to factor in some different thinking and apply a bit of 'man maths'. After all the options I added (Sports Pack, LED lights, Leather, Harmon Kardon Speakers, Pro Nav etc) the car came in at just over £40k but from that list price BMW gave me £3.5k as a deposit contribution and the government another £4.5k - so now we were down to £32k and with a pretty good finance deal the car is costing me around £500 a month based on 18,000 miles pa. As I'm no longer putting in £300 a month in fuel this makes it in real terms £200 a month, but for me, the icing on the cake is I get 45ppm from my employer for business mileage regardless of what car I drive, so I end up with a net gain of around £100 to £200 a month all told!

So, the Good Stuff:
The Performance - it's rapid and fun!
The Quality - it really does feel well put together in a polar bear saving kind of way!
The Refinement - it's incredibly quiet, almost spooky quiet.
The Tech - it makes everything else seem antiquated.
ReX - you'll be glad of having the onboard generator should you not have time to stop and charge or you can't get a charge due to knobs in their plug-in hybrids trying to eek out 20 miles of range after an hour on the charger.

The Bad:
I felt car sick when I first got it - the lack of noise as a reference makes you feel a little weird at first and passengers also feel it at first.
Small boot - inside it's spacious but the boot is compromised.
It's only a 2 + 2, so no middle seat in the rear means a max of 4 people can come along for the ride.
The front seats lack a bit of lateral support - they are not uncomfortable by any stretch but could be better in the hugging department.
Suicide doors - look great but in practice, you need to think of this car like a 2 door with easier access to the rear.
Charging infrastructure - increasingly you find muppets hogging chargers to gain just 20 miles of EV range.

Go and get one for an extended test drive!

zilspeed - 16/10/17 at 04:40 PM

As soon as I can move to a full electric or Rex, I will.

We've had a Toyota Auris hybrid for the last two years.
It's not as good as a diesel in pure MPG, but if you look at relative efficiency for a 1.8 petrol auto, it's excellent.
It's still not good enough though, and a full electric or Rex is next for me.

On a run out around the Trossachs yesterday - to catch the autumn scenery in our old Golf GTI, (£500 worth) I had the realisation that provided I keep something like that about the place for rare longer journeys, we could easily use an electric car the rest of the time.

craig1410 - 1/8/23 at 11:31 AM

Hi all,

I just stumbled on this thread and thought I'd put in a brief update.

We've still got our original i3 94Ah and it now has 74k miles on it after 6.5 years. We have no plans to change the car although we were tempted to update it with a new 120Ah model just before BMW discontinued it. But the car itself hadn't been updated enough other than the battery capacity to justify starting a fresh round of finance, and we actually preferred the colour of our existing car to those on offer for new cars. Then there was the change in vehicle tax rules and reduced government contribution to EV car purchase.

The car has been very reliable and cheap to service with only one major repair needed and a few minor bits of maintenance. We purchased the 5 year service plan for £325 when we bought it, although in practice this only really pays for a service at 2 years and another at 4 years. Still good value though to get it through the warranty period with FDSH.

Since then, I have replaced the brake discs and pads all round once and I replaced the front suspension strut rubber gaiters and top swivel mounts which were a known issue on early to mid i3s. The brakes were no different in cost or process to a petrol/diesel car, and the suspension work was pretty straightforward as well, and not too expensive to do DIY.

The only major repair the car has needed has been a replacement AC compressor which was done a few months back. That was a fairly painful £2935 inc VAT supplied and fitted by BMW but that it largely because it is a high voltage electric compressor rather than a more typical mechanically driven one you see on most cars. The compressor alone was around £1500 and it also needed a couple of AC lines with integral filters replaced and of course a de-gas, flush and re-gas with the expensive R1234YF gas. Labour time was 5 hours at £140/hr (ex VAT) and then of course you need to add VAT to everything. I did look into doing the work myself but honestly it was just not worth it given that I would have needed at least two trips to an AC shop to get the car de-gassed and re-gassed, and if you look at the complexity of the i3's AC system and the official process to replace the compressor, it's no surprise it takes 5 hours even for BMW to do it. Also, if I did the work myself then I would most likely invalidate the 2 year parts warranty on the compressor because of the necessity to follow the correct steps during the flushing and re-oiling process.

Initially when I got the quotation, my wife said she would instead just wind the window down to stay cool but that wasn't an option because the AC system not only cools the interior but also cools the batteries. Not only that but because we have the heat pump option, it also heats the interior and batteries.

Cosmetically the car looks brand new, mainly because the exterior body panels are composite and don't retain parking dings. The interior has also worn well and just needs a deep valet to get it back to looking like new.

Most importantly, my wife still loves the car as her daily driver and has no intention of replacing it any time soon. Our drivetrain and battery warranty runs until January 2025 at which point we might consider updating to a later second hand i3, but alternatively we might just accept the risk of something going wrong. The batteries themselves are still lasting just as long as they did when the car was new, a testament to the excellent design and thermal management I'd say. I'm sure there has to be some degradation but we just don't notice it and still get ranges well in excess of 100 miles even in winter and in excess of 120 miles in the summer. To be honest, the type of driving has more impact on range than the season, with motorway driving being worst and urban driving being best as you'd expect. Energy lost to wind resistance and other rolling losses is something you can't regenerate during deceleration.

So, after 6.5 years and 74k miles, I can categorically conclude that our i3 experiment has been a massive success. The only thing that disappoints us is the lack of compelling alternatives during that time. There are a few now that I would consider, such as the Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6 and of course the likes of the Porsche Tacan or Audi e-tron but they are out of my reach for now. I just don't do enough miles to justify such a car.

coyoteboy - 7/8/23 at 11:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by rf900rush
My question would be, how much would a new battery pack cost when the warranty runs out.

You may sell the car, say with 1 year warranty left, but who would buy it with a risk of needing to buy a new battery pack 1 year later.

I looked at the G-wiz briefly (don't laugh) for cheap motoring, but when the battery replace cost was included , the running cost was close to my 2.5l Subaru Outback.

I know Batteries have improved greatly, but they all die at some point.

May be a personal lease hire, and leave the battery problem to them?


Meh there's plenty of data on Teslas with 250K miles upward to a million on them, sure batteries die, so do engines. Would I buy a car with 1 year warranty left on teh battery - sure, no problem - I buy cars with no warranty on the engine and there are places that repair batteries the same as you can repair engines - the idea that you have to shovel out the old battery and replace the whole thing is just incorrect thinking. There's still 80%+ capacity left after the warranty is done.

sdh2903 - 7/8/23 at 11:43 AM

Id struggle to say a 6 yo car that needed a 3k repair was a massive success tbh. Glad you're still happy with it though.

coyoteboy - 7/8/23 at 02:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Id struggle to say a 6 yo car that needed a 3k repair was a massive success tbh. Glad you're still happy with it though.


That's a valid point, I mean you could fit a new engine to most IC cars for that. For such a mission-critical component to last 6 years is a bit poor.

craig1410 - 8/8/23 at 02:23 PM

Don't get me wrong, I was not "happy" to have to spend that on the AC compressor but I don't think it's realistic to suggest that you could get a new engine fitted to an IC car for that amount of money. For a start the AC compressor itself was £1500 which was for a genuine, warrantied part from the dealer. I could have got a compressor for £800 from the aftermarket. The rest of the cost was a combination of labour and VAT for an AC job that would not be easy to DIY.

I'd be interested to know what sort of brand new engine you could get for £1500 direct from a dealer, or for £800 from some other source, and then have it fitted for another £1500. Sure, maybe you could get a 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta petrol engine from a scrapyard with 80k miles on the clock but you ain't going to get anything brand new with a 2 year warranty for that. It's not really an apples to apples comparison anyway tbh.

That said, it's not even far fetched that a car might need a new engine within 6 years because I had a 2008 Toyota Aygo which got a new short engine after just 45k miles and about 2.5 years due to piston slap and it was just as bad again after 90k miles when I sold it on. Fortunately the new engine got fitted under warranty the first time.

Anyway, my point was that overall cost of ownership (servicing + maintenance) has been very low over those 6 years, even taking account of the AC failure, and the cost savings due to the very low cost per mile has made up for that many times over.

On the topic of "what happens if the battery fails out of warranty" I tend to agree with @coyoteboy that there is lots of good evidence that the batteries typically last well beyond the warranty cut off, and are modular in design so can be repaired if a sub-module was to fail. As I said, even after 74k miles and 6 years, our i3 still has the same range, as far as we can tell, as it had when new. Logically it must have diminished to some extent but we honestly can't tell.