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Electric hoist on a 9ft scaffold pole ??
Andybarbet - 15/3/17 at 11:21 PM

I might have access to a free Lidl type ceiling mounted electric hoist in the next couple of months time.

I have a brick pillar each side of my garage & was wondering if I span them by putting a scaffold pole or some 2" box section, do you think this will be strong enough for me to lift a zetec with type 9 gearbox attached ? The garage is about 9ft wide & the hoist would be mounted about 4ft from one side.

The other thought was that there is a 6" x 2" roof beam on the brick pillars, I could bolt some angle iron on both sides of this wooden beam & hang the hoist from these, they would also be supported at each end on the brick pillars.

I'm not too worried about moving the hoist along, I'm sure I could lift the engine & manoeuvre the chassis as I lower it in place.

Does this sound safe enough ? Or are there any other ideas that might work ?

The garage has a flat roof if that makes any difference.

Cheers - Andy

owelly - 16/3/17 at 12:01 AM

A scaff pole will bend at that length. If you have three scaff poles, you could triangulate it with a pole on each side pushed the corner of the floor/wall and then up to near where your hoist is mounted? Or use a bit of 4x2 box or RSJ....

hkp57 - 16/3/17 at 05:05 AM

To offer a bit of margin a load of 300kg to allow for a little side load etc.

My recommendation would be a 6” deep rectangular tube steel, 4” wide x3/16” thick, stabilized at ends against rolling and would deflect around ¼” at center. Alternatively you could use a 4x4x3/16 square tube steel and this would deflect about ½” at center

Nickp - 16/3/17 at 06:13 AM

I use a pair that span a single garage width and they have supported my 6pot BMW engine and box with no issues.

Norfolkluegojnr - 16/3/17 at 08:33 AM

I used a length of 3" box steel, with timber underneath spanning my wooden garage. Support a zetec with no issues.

In fact, it support that, plus the block and tackle, so a fair bit more I guess.

cliftyhanger - 16/3/17 at 08:43 AM

Previously used a 9x2 timber beam over a 9ft span to lift a triumph 6 cylinder engine and box (way heavier than a zetec)

Currently have a scaffold pole sat on top of 3 of the (8x2, 11ft) roof joists in my garage and lifted all sorts. Why 3 joists? that was the bit of pole I had! I fitted it when I roofed the garage, just cut slots in the firring pieces nailed on top of the joists. Be difficult to do this as a retrofit though!

Another idea, an RSJ?? I am pretty certain even a small one will suffice here. And if you are lucky turn up cheap secondhand....

nick205 - 16/3/17 at 08:58 AM

I'd be inclined to use square or rectangular section steel spanning the pillars. I'd be worried about round section (scaffold tube) rolling off the pillars.

Andybarbet - 16/3/17 at 10:43 AM

If it wasn't a flat roof, I probably would have gone for a long pole sat at 90 degrees to the rafters, I could have put it on top of them and spanned 6 or 7 rafters to spread the load but I've got a flat roof so the boarding is directly on top of my rafters.

Looks like it might be best to try & find a cheap beam or box section to sit on the brick pillars, it would feel like the proper option this way.

The other option that interested me is called a flitch beam (i think ?) This is where you can bolt angle or flat plate each side of one of the current beams to add support to minimise any sag. This would be my easiest option if it sounds like it will work ?

Anyone have a rough idea of the weight of a type 9 & zetec bolted together ?

If it ends up too costly or too much work I will probably sack it off, I do have a standard wheel around engine hoist that me & a friend went halves on a few years ago, it's just that I've finally managed to buy a house & it has a single garage so a ceiling mounted hoist would take up no space at all when not in use. The only other thing I'm ever likely to use it for would be removing the engine from our classic mini if I need to.

Keep the ideas coming, I'm off work with sciatica so I have plenty of time to read up :-)

mcerd1 - 16/3/17 at 11:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by hkp57
To offer a bit of margin a load of 300kg to allow for a little side load etc.

My recommendation would be a 6” deep rectangular tube steel, 4” wide x3/16” thick, stabilized at ends against rolling and would deflect around ¼” at center. Alternatively you could use a 4x4x3/16 square tube steel and this would deflect about ½” at center


Not sure what factors you've added but I can't get my figures to add up to as much deflection as that...
I'm using 150x100x5.0 RHS and 100x100x4.0 SHS as you just can't get imperial sections these days - but this should be pretty close to your sizes

Assuming a simply supported beam loaded at the mid point then the deflection is just = { the load (in kN) * the span of beam (in mm) } / { 48 * E * I }

were E = 205 kN/mm² and I for a 150x100x5.0 RSH = 7390000mm^4
giving 0.85mm deflection for a 3.0kN load

or 2.7mm for a 3.0kN load on a 100x100x4.0 SHS



but anyway a UB section should be a fair bit cheaper than a box section
something like a 152x89x16 UB would be equivalent in its major axis to a 150x100x5.0 RHS box section


but even the smallest 127x76x13 UB should be easily up to the job.... (thats 13kg/m so at ~2.75m is around 36kg of steel which could be around the £30 mark from the right supplier)

UB's also have the advantage of being able to use beam clamps and trolleys as well



A 127x76x13 UB in S275-JR steel (to EN 10025-2), with an assumed 300kg load + 50kg for a hoist etc
spanning 2.75m with only simple supports at each end (as a worst case for deflection)

would give you ~1.7mm deflection at the mid point - crane beams are allowed a 1/600 vertical deflection (2750/600 = 4.5mm)
so 1.7mm is well within this limit

also even with the usial 1.6x factors for crane beams its more than up to the job for 300kg over this span

[Edited on 16/3/2017 by mcerd1]

Andybarbet - 16/3/17 at 02:54 PM

Wow, thanks for this info:

but even the smallest 127x76x13 UB should be easily up to the job.... (thats 13kg/m so at ~2.75m is around 36kg of steel which could be around the £30 mark from the right supplier)

UB's also have the advantage of being able to use beam clamps and trolleys as well.

This is sounding pretty promising, I will check out some prices:-)

mcerd1 - 16/3/17 at 07:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andybarbet
This is sounding pretty promising, I will check out some prices:-)


bare in mind that not all of the clamps or beam trolleys will fit a beam with as small a flange width as 76mm (ie the 127x76x13 UB)

heres a link to all the available sizes of UB if you want to check any dimensions:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Sections/UBA_dim_prop.html

btw you may be offered S355 grades as well as the S275 above, these are also fine

Andybarbet - 17/3/17 at 09:15 AM

Thanks Mcerd1, all very useful info.


Last question to the masses, any recommended suppliers for the 127x76x13 UB ?

I've found a couple online but prices are quite high.

I will ask around this area (hertfordshire) to see if I can find anything close by to save on courier cost.

Cheers

cliftyhanger - 17/3/17 at 10:33 AM

Phone up the local steel stockholders. They will likely all be very similar prices to each other, and will delivery promptly.....

Or check fleabay etc, you may get lucky. A 4 1/2 grinder will slice a beam up no problem (I did a few when building my extension)