Hi,

I am from abroad and recently I wanted to order a part for my kit car on http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk which they have in stock.

I could not find the exact measurement I needed for the part and it is difficult to measure it.

Hence I asked them If I could return the part if it wouldn't fit as expected.

I also made clear that I would cover shipping in that case for both ways.

I spoke to Neil and he told me that this would be ok but I would only receive a credit note/voucher and not a direct refund.

According to Neil's superiour this is the company's policy due to "money laundering reasons".

I wrote them that I could not understand how one can launder money if it is refunded to the same account it came from.

Obviously this statement is complete bullshit.

I would need a direct refund because I coulnd't find anything else in their webshop which I need.

The only response I received was:

"I'm only stating the company policy.
Not to worry then if this doesn't work for you."

After that I informed them that according to the law they have to offer a full and direct refund.

I also explained that if they want to make business they have to accept certain laws and honor them.

Furthermore I told them that their company's policy does not harmonise with current law.

Again I only received the same response:

"I'm only stating the company policy.
Not to worry then if this doesn't work for you."

Then I checked their return policy on their homepage and it states: http://www.kitcardirect.co.uk/returns-policy

"Once your return parcel arrives back we will then dispatch the alternative product you have requested (at your cost) or issue a refund back to the card you originally paid with minus a restocking fee of 10% of the order value. "

- So officially they claim to give you a direct refund but in reality they are only willing to give you a credit note/voucher.
- According to law no admin or restocking fees should be charged.

I found several more passages in their return policy which do not harmonise with current law:

In order to be able to exercise your right to a refund or exchange you must send the product back to us so that it is received by us, within 7 (Seven) days of you receiving the product from us pursuant to your original order.

- but the law is you've 14 days after it's delivered to cancel, then 14 days after cancellation to return.

Similarly, the value to be attributed to the product for the purposes of an exchange will be the purchase price actually paid for the product being returned and will not include any delivery or other charges paid by you in connection with the product.

- According to law, delivery costs have to be refunded. Though if you chose faster delivery you only get the basic cost back.

Please note the product is your responsibility until it is received and signed for by us.

- I am pretty confident that once you handed over the item to the courier you are free of any responsibility. So if it gets damaged in transit although it was packed well, it will be kitcardirects responsibility.


Is it normal that online shops in the UK are not honoring consumer rights which are based on consumer contracts regulations?

If a company would act like this where I am from it would receive a warning and a hefty fine within weeks if not days and would be forced to update their terms & conditions accordingly.

If you paid via credit card you might be able to sort this out with them... they can charge back to the company.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluemoon
If you paid via credit card you might be able to sort this out with them... they can charge back to the company.

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What is the part? I'm sure there is some way you could measure and check it fits. Although they may want nothing to do with you now after such a thread...

[Edited on 5/5/19 by Mr Whippy]

I wasn't aware that an order can be returned due to a c0ck up in measurement, as im sorry to say, if that was the case most business would go under

An example, if I was to ORDER a throttle cable, that had a 2 meter inner, and a 1.8 meter outer (an item that has been specially made ) and it was delivered, as such, I could hardly send it back, as I actually needed an inner of 2.10 meter

steve

Thanks for this thread REB. It's wonderful for you to write such a thread publicly on the internet.

I would not normally reply to a thread like this though I feel you are missing some minor details here and painting the wrong picture of us.

The bit you're actually missing is that you're trying to fit a custom made product to a vehicle which this is not actually designed for, and if this doesn't fit you would like to return this. I mentioned this was fine, however if this didn't fit, you would receive a credit note and not a refund. So I haven't said you can't return them, nor have I send you can't have the equivalent of your money back - nor have I mentioned a 10% restocking fee.

Having given you many many measurements and tried to be very helpful to you over email to prevent the return of this product and keep you happy, you thank me by writing a thread like this.

You are very welcome to come to the workshop and try these for fitment before you buy them - if this is not an option, then i'm very sorry.

The decision is yours to buy such an item online is yours in the end or You are free to purchase such an item from anywhere.
We are happy to correspond with you via email or phone call but we will not communicate publicly regarding this matter as to protect your identity, we do not publish email correspondence between customer and trader,

We are sorry your not happy with the communication to date we have tried to answer all your questions as requested, also manufacturers like us only try to make products to support this niche industry and slandering emails like this with substantial evidence is only to slander a business without even making a purchase, we have many happy customers over the years of trading and try to go out of our way to support the customer,

We hope we can try to assist you with this matter going forward,

Regards kcd

Well said KCD - I think your stance is more than reasonable and find the OP unreasonable in the circumstances

The OP is referring to the distance selling regulations. These are somewhat counter intuitive. A right to return goods exists in most cases for a refund rather than a credit note where goods are sold act a distance (its complicated but most internet sales will be covered). Many sellers fail to appreciate the scope of these. Vast numbers of eBay traders do not realise that these apply to them. There are exceptions for goods made to order.

Nothing in this is intended to comment on the rights and wrongs of the parties to this dispute as I have not seen the information provided before the contract was entered into.

tbh I think the OP should delete the thread, the term slander springs to mind, especially the choice of the title

OP: You sound like an absolute nightmare. All this before you have even placed an order for a part (and then one that you're likely to send back)!?

If it were my business you were wasting the time of, we'd have simply told you that we're not interested in dealing with you, thanks.

The world would be a better place if people were more responsible about the use of the internet. I agree that it was unwise to post this thread. That said,,,,,,

The 'Returns Policy' complained of does require goods to be returned unopened in 7 days to be entitled to a refund. The regulations do provide a 14 day right to cancel most consumer contracts. A 'restocking charge' is generally unlawful. The policy states "Please note that the acceptance of the return of a product for refund or exchange is in our absolute and sole discretion". It is not. The business certainly needs to look at that policy and to take some advice. As distance selling becomes the norm businesses need to keep up with the legal requirements if they want to stay compliant. Is this something that would trouble most of us....I doubt it.

To show the depths of my pedantry........even if false the original statement would have been libel and not slander.

@ kitcardirect:

My main complain is that you are only willing to give a credit note and not a direct refund.

I never stated that you are not willing to take the items back or that you are not willing to refund them.

What I am not happy with is "how" you want to refund the money!

You still do not seem to understand that your return policy / terms and conditions are not complying with current law.

Please read the consumer contracts regulations - which came into force in the UK in June 2014:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/contents/made

If you want to sell goods over the internet you have to comply with these regulations.

The only choice you have is either abide the law or close your business if you dont.

I already pointed out which parts of your return policy do not comply with the law.

Most likely there are plenty of outdated passages in your terms & conditions too.

Please seek legal advise and get these updated so that they harmonise with current law.



@ all others:

kitcardirect just wrote publicly in this thread that they are only willing to give a credit note for a return and not a direct refund.

This is against the law.

Their terms & conditions / return policy is not complying with the law.

Hence they are not willing to honor certain rights you have as a consumer.

There is not really anything to discuss regarding this matter as we are talking about the law which is explicit in this case.

I gave kitcardirect the chance to solve this matter directly with them but I only received the same generic reply from them about this issue.


@ steve:
The seller can not properly measure the item due to its shape and I am not blaming the seller for it. He tried to measure it as well as he can but there is still a chance that the part will not fit as expected. Nothing to do with any measurements from my side!

[Edited on 6/5/19 by reb]

I bet specialists suppliers just love you! lol, if i'm not happy with a companies terms/conditions i buy it somewhere else.

If i was kitcardirect i'd just not deal with you and block all correspondence now.

Move on...

Ian

Law or not, if you contact a company quoting law at them, taking up their time with backwards and forward emails and picking a fight before you have purchased anything, I don’t think I would be too surprised to find the things that you may or may not want to purchase are out of stock... for a very long time.

There are ways of doing things to get what you want. Having a reasonable approach in life, generally results in the same in return. Quoting law at people has rarely got me further than being reasonable and straight with people.

Perhaps changing approach might be worth considering.

LOL talk about shooting yourself in the foot, twice

Mr Angry you need to take your medicine... I keep seeing posts like this and can't help thinking is this CalvinX?

I tried the friendly and reasonable way already with kitcardirect, it didn't worked.

If they cant measure the part properly because of its shape I can understand it as long as I can return it and receive a direct refund, not a credit note if it doesnt fit as expected.

I even offered kitcardirect to pay for shipping both ways in that case.

Where I am from, companies which state return policies like that will receive a warning and a hefty fine within weeks if not days.

Afterwards companies have a month to update their terms & conditions and return policies.

But it seems that some of you dont really care about the consumer rights you are entitled to if you shop online.

It seems that online shops are taking advantage of this in the UK.

If you don't want to deal with KCD don't. Why the need for the public outrage?

quote:

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Originally posted by reb
I tried the friendly and reasonable way already with kitcardirect, it didn't worked.

If they cant measure the part properly because of its shape I can understand it as long as I can return it and receive a direct refund, not a credit note if it doesnt fit as expected.

I even offered kitcardirect to pay for shipping both ways in that case.

Where I am from, companies which state return policies like that will receive a warning and a hefty fine within weeks if not days.

Afterwards companies have a month to update their terms & conditions and return policies.

But it seems that some of you dont really care about the consumer rights you are entitled to if you shop online.

It seems that online shops are taking advantage of this in the UK.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reb

I tried the friendly and reasonable way already with kitcardirect, it didn't worked.

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quote:

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Originally posted by reb


Where I am from, companies which state return policies like that will receive a warning and a hefty fine within weeks if not days.

.

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Unbelievable.

At the end of a build and I have done a few,there is always a pile of parts which for a variety of reasons are surplus.
They get sold usually at a big loss. It goes with the territory of amateur building which I certainly put myself up for.

quote:

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Originally posted by daviep
If you don't want to deal with KCD don't. Why the need for the public outrage?

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quote:

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Originally posted by grazzledazzle

Perhaps a solution would be to buy the part in the country ‘where you are from’ and go and look at it prior to buying?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy

So without ever buying anything from them decided instead to just post inflammatory threads aimed at hurting their business, nice move troll

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quote:

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Originally posted by ianhurley20

I wonder - does that mean people who make libellous comments are dealt with in a similar fashion?

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quote:

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Originally posted by westf27
Unbelievable.

At the end of a build and I have done a few,there is always a pile of parts which for a variety of reasons are surplus.
They get sold usually at a big loss. It goes with the territory of amateur building which I certainly put myself up for.

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Dear oh dear.

Predantic about the letter of the law.

Here is a copy & paste posted by the OP back in 2016.

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[Wanted] V5 from a kit car with a registration date before 2006

Hi,

I need a V5 and a matching VIN plate from a kit car with a first registration date before 2006.

If you only have a V5 contact me anway please.

I will also consider buying a damaged frame or a totaled kit car if we can agree on a fair price.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------

I guess the OP likes to pick & choose which laws to abide by.

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

^^^
Funny that. Ringing cars is a little more serious than a 10% restocking charge.

So, why don’t you tell us about your car, make, model, how you got it registered ‘over there’ that kind of thing?

quote:

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Originally posted by bonzoronnie
Dear oh dear.

Predantic about the letter of the law.

Here is a copy & paste posted by the OP back in 2016.

---------------------------------------------------------

[Wanted] V5 from a kit car with a registration date before 2006

Hi,

I need a V5 and a matching VIN plate from a kit car with a first registration date before 2006.

If you only have a V5 contact me anway please.

I will also consider buying a damaged frame or a totaled kit car if we can agree on a fair price.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------

I guess the OP likes to pick & choose which laws to abide by.

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

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quote:

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Originally posted by reb

quote:

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Originally posted by bonzoronnie
Dear oh dear.

Predantic about the letter of the law.

Here is a copy & paste posted by the OP back in 2016.

---------------------------------------------------------

[Wanted] V5 from a kit car with a registration date before 2006

Hi,

I need a V5 and a matching VIN plate from a kit car with a first registration date before 2006.

If you only have a V5 contact me anway please.

I will also consider buying a damaged frame or a totaled kit car if we can agree on a fair price.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------

I guess the OP likes to pick & choose which laws to abide by.

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

[Edited on 6/5/19 by bonzoronnie]

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I ended up buying a registered kit car but thanks for reminding me.

But it has little to do with the current topic, isn't it?

You can try to discredit, paint a wrong image about me or distract from the original topic as much as you want.

Everyone who reads this topic and who has a certain intellectual scope will come to the conclusion the kitcardirects is not honoring the rights of its customers.

You guys go through great lengths to defend kitcarsdirect.

I hope that you at least get offered a direct refund from them in case you have to return something.

Poor me only gets a credit note

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I'm confused - the OP says the part he wanted was in stock, then the thread turns to custom made parts. Which is it? Stock or custom?

If it is a stock part and he pays carriage a refund seems reasonable. If custom made then unreasonable.

Poor you “only gets a credit note” for an item you haven’t even bought!!! Are you for real???
Think you’d make a cracking politician - so easily glossing over your own ringing post but yet try to act all high any mighty on consumer law! Get the feeling you have no support on here?

none whatsoever...

This thread should be deleted. I'm all for the consumer but this isn't fair on kitcardirect at all.

To be fair, under European distance selling rights you're entitled to cancel the contract and get a full refund within 14 days, no questions allowed, unless the parts are made to order. Under consumer rights law you'd have no right to return an item you bought knowing it might be the wrong size. You also legally get 2 year warranties by default. Very few people in the UK know these things.

However I'm not sure an Internet post is going to help the OP in any way as businesses have no requirement to sell to you at all. Especially if you go on the offensive even before a purchase!

[Edited on 7/5/19 by coyoteboy]

TBF, I would like to thank the OP for highlighting kitcardirect as a company that doesnt comply with distance selling regulations. I buy mail order a lot and unfortunately things do go wrong, the number of times sellers who are unaware and unwilling to comply with the law is frustrating and so I actively avoid companies like this because they simply are not worth the hassle!

quote:

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Originally posted by wylliezx9r
This thread should be deleted. I'm all for the consumer but this isn't fair on kitcardirect at all.

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We still do not know which country are they being sold to? So what is the limitation geographically of distance selling?

It seems the above applies within the EU, in fact it appears the EU that drove this. Dunno what applies if buyer is resident outside of EU.

Is it custom or is it not?
I would be interested to know how they define custom. When I go into my local sandwich shop and buy a cheese sandwich they make it to order. Is that "custom"?? It's not "in stock"!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by BenB
When I go into my local sandwich shop and buy a cheese sandwich they make it to order. Is that "custom"??

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I wish we had this kind of laws here.
Here in Mexico I don´t think that even pointing the fact to the authorities would get anything done...
Maybe OP was not polite, but at least pointed out the discrepancies.
KCD has the opportunity to review and modify to suit.
If the government finds out and finds it is illegal, KCD may get fined or punished harder.
If KCD has evidence that he doesn´t need to comply, he may get away unscathed.

Playing devil´s advocate, if someone tells me I´m wrong, it may wee me off, but if this call saves my butt from jail, it may not be that bad.

If he who told me has no grounds, I may ask hin to mind his own business...
In this case maybe request an apology?

quote:

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Originally posted by BenB
Is it custom or is it not?
I would be interested to know how they define custom. When I go into my local sandwich shop and buy a cheese sandwich they make it to order. Is that "custom"?? It's not "in stock"!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy

quote:

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Originally posted by BenB
Is it custom or is it not?
I would be interested to know how they define custom. When I go into my local sandwich shop and buy a cheese sandwich they make it to order. Is that "custom"?? It's not "in stock"!!!

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would you expect them to take it back if you changed your mind after they made it for you? you should try it and see what happens

anyway I'm 95% convinced the OP is CalvinX, sounds just like him

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy

quote:

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Originally posted by BenB
Is it custom or is it not?
I would be interested to know how they define custom. When I go into my local sandwich shop and buy a cheese sandwich they make it to order. Is that "custom"?? It's not "in stock"!!!

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would you expect them to take it back if you changed your mind after they made it for you? you should try it and see what happens

anyway I'm 95% convinced the OP is CalvinX, sounds just like him

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This Thread should be Deleted

Its serving no purpose other that having a dig at a company that doesn't deserve it...

quote:

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Originally posted by perksy
This Thread should be Deleted

Its serving no purpose other that having a dig at a company that doesn't deserve it...

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quote:

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Originally posted by perksy
This Thread should be Deleted

Its serving no purpose other that having a dig at a company that doesn't deserve it...

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quote:

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Originally posted by perksy
This Thread should be Deleted

Its serving no purpose...

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quote:

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Originally posted by adithorp

I'm not so sure. It's got Steve to come back posting again.

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I think the thread does serve a purpose (now).
This is how I see it;

Initially, the op thought he had reason to post what he did in this inflammatory purile way.
And the forum didn't know any better.

Then, kcd replied succinctly and appropriately as a business should have, showing up op..

Then op pointed out the shortfalls of kcd website going against distance selling rules & regs.


So, two parties can post again if they so choose;

Kcd can post and redeem themselves further by saying something like - all the above we posted was correct and we've amended our website to be in line with UK distance selling for all you good kc people. But the op can do one..

And / Or

The op can post answering the questions that were asked of him in the thread and maybe (maybe) redeem himself..


ATB
Steve