I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction. I've sold my car two weeks ago but now the buyer is accusing me of selling them an unroadworthy and broken car - threatening me with court action, it's really getting to me now.

The guy owns a garage and came and viewed the car, inspected it and said he didn't need to test drive it (I said I wasn't keen as it was late and neighbours etc). He signed a receipt saying there was no warranty implied or given.

He has also told me that he has it apart and replaced bits and pieces, so how do I know he hasn't broken it? Reading between the lines, it sounds like he regrets buying it and wants his money bacmlk.. It was clear that he didn't know much about kits.

Any advice or reassurance is appreciated. I can't afford the money or stress of legal stuff.

I should also add that the v5 has been transferred to his garage as a trader, not sure how or if this would affect things?

This is difficult.
Pretty certain he has no claim on you, he gave you a receipt, and stated he he no comebacks.

However, garage owners can get very nasty....

Wouldn't surprise me if he had a customer for it, and that hasn't worked out as expected.

Well he forgot to take his copy of the receipt and asked me to send it to him, so I sent a picture and said I would scan a copy. He wanted a copy because he was going to part ex it with something else, then when that deal went through he said he was arranging for it to be returned to me?!

I would have thought as a garage owner he would know what he was looking at - there isn't much hidden on a kit car?

I have pictures and videos of it running days or weeks previous. Essentially as he has had it in pieces, if i take it back, I can't sell it on as I don't know what he's done to it.

It’s a private sale so he has no comeback
What’s he saying the problem is with the car ?

He hasn't really said.. Just that sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't. He claims it isn't roadworthy and he knows because he is an MOT tester. First time is was 'broken', he hadn't diarmed the immobiliser.

Last time he rang me he had the spark plugs out saying there was no spark, but he was still happy with the car. Within 2 days he's got very nasty..

I just do not know what to do. I'm days away from buying a replacement car, which is now in doubt because of this

Ignore him. He hasnt a leg to stand on. Sold as seen with a private sale.
Unless you specifically lied about any questions he asked (and he can prove that) then he wont get any joy from any legal action.

Sounds like he’s a bit of an idiot car was sold as seen private sale I assume he drove the car when he picked it up and was the car moted recently? sounds like he’s playing you.

Thanks for the reassurance

I described it as mechanically sound, which it is - I have videos which show me driving it perfectly days previous.

I'm getting really beaten up by someone putting my work and character down. I don't need the stress of people threatening legal action.

I wouldn't worry, I don't think he can really bring any action against you. As you said it's sold as seen, if he's taken it to bits then he could have induced faults and damaged it, hence any chance of returning it ended when he did that.
He's probably just being threatening to try and make you say you'll take it back.

NB Just my 2p! I'm not a lawyer

As a private seller you have very little to worry about. Unless he can show you were dishonest about the condition of the car then he's stuck with it, so ignore the threats and don't give an inch e.g. don't agree to any partial refunds etc. Ignore any further contact with him, engaging with these people only encourages them.

Thank you for all the responses, it is helping as it's currently ruining my weekend.

He's told me that a motorcycle expert has had a look at it and told him the engine needs to be stripped.. He is refusing to reply until Tuesday now, but I think its wise for me to ask for the motorcycle experts contact details so I can speak to him myself. Will be very telling if the details aren't forthcoming.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
Thank you for all the responses, it is helping as it's currently ruining my weekend.

He's told me that a motorcycle expert has had a look at it and told him the engine needs to be stripped.. He is refusing to reply until Tuesday now, but I think its wise for me to ask for the motorcycle experts contact details so I can speak to him myself. Will be very telling if the details aren't forthcoming.

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Just say,

I'm sorry you feel this way, however, I've sold a running, working car that you were happy with, I've sold this car to you in good faith, I am sorry that you are now unhappy, however this is through no fault of mine. I consider the matter ow closed and will no longer involve myself in any further communication with you directly. Any further communication I will pass on to the police as I am now beginning to feel threatened.

As above sounds sensible

Block his number, block his email/ebay username and carry on.

It's good to hear that you guys agree and I'm not crazy.

I'm just not keen on it getting out of hand as no one will benefit and I don't need the extra stress.

To answer some questions.. The car only had 6 weeks MOT left, but he first contacted me at 10am Tuesday morning and turned up 9.30pm Tuesday night without really confirming he was coming. I said its too late to drive it around and he said I don't need to test drive, it's fine. We firing it up for 30 seconds and it was faultless as expected. It was going for an MOT later in the week, but he couldn't wait.

I get the feeling he is regretting buying as it isn't what he thought it was. I mean he was surprised it had a clutch pedal just because it has flappy paddles.

I was tempted to block all contact but I think it will antagonise the situation and some paperwork will land on my door in a few weeks or something over the top.

He is acting like an idiot turns up late in the day he agrees doesn’t need a road test because of the time he turned up short mot which you where prepared to renew but he couldn’t wait so buys it now says it it unroadworthy doesn’t give you a reason wouldn’t surprise me if he’s trashed the gearbox after what you said assuming it’s a bike engined car and he’s probably never driven one before he’s clearly pretty stupid.your really not liable for any refund and should point this out end off......

I agree with all the above, but it doesn't seem right that he owns a garage but doesn't understand some quite simple things.

I mean, most people know to test drive a car before they buy, especially a hand built one, right?

Now I'm thinking he won't talk to me until Tuesday because he fabricating some evidence against me or something. Time to collate all my build photos and videos I guess.

No, don't try arguing with him or defending what you sold. It only encourages them to think they are "winning"

The receipt says it all, and he is a motor trader....

The car is sold as seen you don't need to provide evidence of anything, don't fuel his behaviour by doing so.

If he gets threatening phone the police and let him know that you have.

I sold a car to a dealer years ago, he was perfectly happy when collecting then two weeks later it started, this is wrong, that is wrong I want my money back or give me £1,500 to put it right.

Just ignore, as before he was probably lining up for a client, it went sour so now is looking for an easy out.

Do not reply, or answer any calls and he will disappear.

Dont block him.

But dont get in to any further discussion. If he persists send something like this.

'Im sorry the car is not to your liking but was viewed and sold as seen. You inspected and deemed it satisfactory prior to purchasing and this was receipted and noted at the time of sale. I will not entertain any further communications regarding the car or its condition.'

Thank you to everyone, you've made me feel so much better by reinforcing what I thought.

Looking back through the messages, there were comments such as 'I have paid too much for this car, if I knew of the problems I would have offered less' and 'let's work together as adults before this gets out of hand'. Makes me think he wants some money back even though I sold it for a very fair price.

The last thing I want to do is get in an argument, but I get the impression he's the kind of guy that will turn up at my door with the car and leave it on my drive...

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
Thank you to everyone, you've made me feel so much better by reinforcing what I thought.

Looking back through the messages, there were comments such as 'I have paid too much for this car, if I knew of the problems I would have offered less' and 'let's work together as adults before this gets out of hand'. Makes me think he wants some money back even though I sold it for a very fair price.

The last thing I want to do is get in an argument, but I get the impression he's the kind of guy that will turn up at my door with the car and leave it on my drive...

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Don't even try to entertain more conversation. Don't block him, just reply with the same text given a couple of posts above. Every time. He can't dump it on your drive, he can't claim anything against you, report him to the police now and explain you wont be entertaining any ideas of refunds.

I had an issue years ago (18 years old) with a guy who was trying to claim a lot of money off me for a car accident that was 50/50 according to the police, who attended,
The hassle etc went on for weeks, and was quite frightening, as he had my address, and sent numerous letters

My Mother suggested I have legal advice that cost me £25 from memory, including a letter to the other party, and we never heard another thing

Now if this problem was mine, I would report him for harassment, wether its threatening, or just unpleasant, doesn't matter, its harassment, and he signed the letter to agree with what he has bought
The sooner you do this, and let him know, politely, it will stop

steve

Hi

Have a read here...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1771612&d=0#seperator

You appear to have done nothing wrong and so I would ignore any further contact or - as he had suggested - let him go through the court. From what you have said, I don't think he'll get far...

Sadly this kind of scam is becoming all too common, buy the item often unseen and without haggling then once in possession claim there's something wrong with it and you want a partial refund/discount.
Do not block him but also do not enter into any further conversation with him. First thing tomorrow seek legal advice, if only to calm your shattered nerves.
Tell the solicitor everything including all the phone calls and messages which hopefully you have kept.
A solicitor will be able to advise if this is worth fighting or if you should go and get the car back. If you take the car back do not enter into discussion just ask him to make it ready for your collection.
I doubt it'll come to that though as it seems you have done nothing wrong and a good solicitor should be able to support this.
A solicitor should be able to send him a letter pointing out the legal aspects as well as highlighting his claims of it 'being broken' or 'not fit' are irrelevant as he has admitted working on it and thus an independent verification of its 'as sold' condition to support his claim is no longer possible.

Just count you self lucky.
You could have bought a car from him

The only issues were with the bodywork, it was a little rough and marked. The speedo had an intermittent fault but I sorted that with a new sensor which is supplied the receipt for.

He has not explicitly said what the issues are yet.

I haven't done anything wrong, I even tried to explain that kits aren't like regular cars, especially bec. But I've never sold a kit before, so it's new territory for me and not sure how things would differ from selling a 'normal' car.

I had something similar a few weeks ago with a builder that had put some (4) nails through electric cables in a a customer's house. I refused to go out on Easter Sunday and then received real nasty threats of violence. A friend in CID advised me to call Police on 101. They were out within an hour and photographed all texts, they contacted him and he has never contacted me since.
I did attend the clients house and replaced all the damaged cables. Client paid me in cash and told me he would be deducting it from builders final payment.

That's ridiculous.. Not even your fault?!

I wouldn't say the threats are violent, but I think the quote was he'll be passing the case on to 'a recovery company he uses in situations like this'. Not sure what the even means.

[Edited on 27/5/19 by Jamesc]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
That's ridiculous.. Not even your fault?!

I wouldn't say the threats are violent, but I think the quote was he'll be passing the case on to 'a recovery company he uses in situations like this'. Not sure what the even means.

[Edited on 27/5/19 by Jamesc]

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Me too. Not sure if he means car recovery or debt recovery.. I'm guessing the latter.

There is no debt. You owe him nothing.
All he could do is claim via the courts, but from what you say his chances of success are less than a kitkat lasting an hour in our house. And he knows it.
Sounds more and more like a despicable idiot.

Love the kit kat reference, wouldn't last an hour with me either!

Debt was the wrong word, recover his money I guess he means. His messages are quite difficult to understand. Looking back, he asked me to send him the sale reciept (that he forgot to pick up) 9am Saturday morning and he wanted it before lunch. I sent him a photo of it on Friday as I was away and he said it wasnt clear enough to read - looked fine when I looked at it, maybe 40 megapixels wasn't enough?

Will keep you all updated.

It’s an annoying situation to be in. Perhaps a bit late but you’re best option is to politely refuse to communicate with this moron. He has no leg to stand on so by talking to him you’re letting him think he has a chance.... don’t give in, save all communications and if you feel threatened contact the police.

Just received this message:

I have just finished speaking to recovery company they told me that I have a legal right to return the car for full refund , we have three choices either you take the car back or pay me to repair it or tell me you are not interested please be advised if they start the case there will be additional charges which will be enclosed please let me know ASAP as they are ringing me these afternoon in fact they were going to start the case this morning but I told them I need to speak to you first please let me know regards

If you havent already send the message I quoted above and leave it that. He either knows he is very wrong and is playing games, or doesnt know hes wring and just very stupid.

[Edited on 28-5-19 by loggyboy]

Mate, he's angling for cash from you.

Do not give into him!!

Go legal if you have to.

May be worth a trip or a call to citizens advice bureau

I have sought legal advice and been told that in their opinion of the list of items he gives, the only one I *could* be liable for is a headlamp bulb. Although, he would need to prove the bulb wasn't working when he picked it up.

Solicitors words were "He wouldn't be getting anything out of me" - That was after I sent him a conversation log, pictures and the original advert.

Politely tell him to do one.

This is what Which say...

Second-hand car bought privately
You have fewer rights when you buy a used car from a private seller, and key parts of the Consumer Rights Act don't apply.

For example, there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:

accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if it’s been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
Just received this message:

I have just finished speaking to recovery company they told me that I have a legal right to return the car for full refund , we have three choices either you take the car back or pay me to repair it or tell me you are not interested please be advised if they start the case there will be additional charges which will be enclosed please let me know ASAP as they are ringing me these afternoon in fact they were going to start the case this morning but I told them I need to speak to you first please let me know regards

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I only used an independent solicitor for advice, I don't have one for actual litigation - Not sure how I would even find a suitable one or what the huge cost would be?

Quite a lot more than offering him a couple of hundred to wee off I'm guessing

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
I only used an independent solicitor for advice, I don't have one for actual litigation - Not sure how I would even find a suitable one or what the huge cost would be?

Quite a lot more than offering him a couple of hundred to wee off I'm guessing

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Listen to your legal adviser.

As a private, sold as seen sale, he has no legal grounds for a refund or contribution towards repair costs.

Any debt recovery agent is breaking the law acting without a county court judgement issued against you.
I doubt any small claim action against you would be successful .


A couple of years back I listed my late grandsons dirt bike on ebay.

A buyer did not want to wait for the auction to end.
He arranged to come for a look the next day after initial contact.

When he arrived with a mate & his teenage son.

They were shown the V5C, recent new MOT cert/receipt , recent service history invoices & told of all known faults.
Main fault was difficulty starting when hot, I advised in my opinion that it be bet to assume a new carb would be needed.

I was present, the owner my late Grandson was also present ( Built like brick out house) & finally my no2 son was present ( built like an even bigger brick outhouse )

They spent the best part of 30 mins thrashing it up a down my lane.
No through road & I made sure my Jeep was blocking the exit of the lane.

All 3 were delighted with the bike & just what his son was looking for.

A cash price was agreed , V5C was filled out & they were given the new keeper portion, I posted the V5C to DVLA the next morning.
Full sold as seen, no warranty given or implied receipt was issued at point of sale,

They promptly man handled the bike into their people carrier & threw it down on its side ( Heard something break ) Then followed that up by slamming the tailgate down breaking the rear mudguard in the process .

Thought what a bunch of idiots, went indoors a closed the ebay auction.

2 Weeks later I had a message from the buyer
He was ranting an raving the the bike was a pile of scrap & was only fit for breaking.
Claimed it cost him a fortune for an engineers report.
He was all guns for his money back.

As a honest seller I agreed to refund him once I had seen the engineers report.
I also warned him I would reduce the the amount of refund to cover the cost of the damage caused to the bike caused by throwing the bike onto its side & breaking the rear mudguard in their tailgate.

He said he would send me the engineers report.

No report was forthcoming just 2 weeks of daily messages of ever increasing abuse .
Also demanding to come down to collect his money & he will bring the report with him.

I advised without seeing the report first He was not to bring the bike down.

He went mental & advised me he would be down with a van load of his mates.

I responded by telling him to make sure it is at least 26 seater.
Politely reminder him that he had seen the size of my late Grandson, No 2 son & seeing the size of no1 son, Other Grandson & 4 cousins will make his ass tweak
Due to his aggressive manner, my goodwill gesture of a refund was now off the table.

More daily abuse followed
Then he changed tack for a partial refund.

I advised I was all done talking about the issue & advised him to take it up in the small claims court.
Also advised that his threats had been printed & handed to the local police.

Last message sent by him " You Bleep Beep Bleep see you in court you Bleep Bleep Bleep "

That was the last I heard from him.

3 Years ago now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc
I only used an independent solicitor for advice, I don't have one for actual litigation - Not sure how I would even find a suitable one or what the huge cost would be?

Quite a lot more than offering him a couple of hundred to wee off I'm guessing

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^ this

Again as above - he has absolutely no leg to stand on. Certainly don’t give in to his bullying - he’s trying it on and probably hasn’t even spoken to a “recovery” company but just trying to scare you into giving him money. Offer him anything and you could weaken your own case if he was stupid enough to take it to a solicitor as it could be inferred there was faults not disclosed. Politely tell him to bugger off

Don't pay a penny, as by doing so, you will admit liability on your behalf

Any further update on this?

I had a similar situation after selling a V6, guy e-mailed me back saying it wasn't working wanting a full refund and costs for his mechanic fitting it... However as you seem to have done I cleanly stated it was sold as see with no guarantee on condition in the advert. Reminded him of that fact and never heard from him again. Ignore the recovery company lies he has done nothing of the sort.

[Edited on 31/5/19 by Mr Whippy]

I knew there was something I was supposed to do...

I sent some text that a the solicitor had sent me regarding the issue basically pointing out that it would be against my wishes for him or his recovery agent to contact me again and if he returned the car it would be subject to a storage fee at a commercial storage company. If he did contact me I would lodge a harassment case with the police. If he wants to get in contact then he should start court proceedings.

In the end he was claiming that something I had done during the build of the car had damaged the head and it needed skimming (Not sure how as it has never overheated or suffered any failure) - As he had inspected the car, he was fully aware of the way it was built and of the part in question.

I have to admit at the end of the text I did offer him £200 as a goodwill gesture (And I still feel dirty for doing that - sorry to everyone!). He refused and demanded £1000 - I told him I wouldn't be talking to him again.

The threats continued and I ignored them. Then he said after consideration that he would accept the £200 as he just wants it sorted - I didn't reply. I then get a phone call from him. I answered as my phone has been set to record phone calls from him. He was very apologetic and said the recovery agent had been called off - That's the end.

In hindsight, looking through the messages, it was blatantly obvious that it was shake down - Even an admission in some messages, but in the heat of the moment when you have other things to worry about it's difficult to get it off your mind.

All a bit strange really. Thanks again to each and every one of you, because at the time it really helped calm my nerves. Still ruined my bank holiday weekend though!

Tempted to delete this thread as it's public, unless we can make it private members?..

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamesc Tempted to delete this thread as it's public, unless we can make it private members?..

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Is there no mods left

Is Chris not around anymore?

Why delete it? It may be of help to others in the future!