BBC link

I'm guessing that registering a petrol kit car will not be allowed when they ban the sale of petrol & diesel cars. I would also guess that it will become very difficult and/or expensive to find liquid fuel in the future, as garages become more and more scarce.

It is possible now to put batteries and an electric drive train into a kit car - but currently it is incredibly expensive and, to be honest, incredibly dangerous for anyone who isn't savvy with high-voltage cabling (350 - 400V usually, with huge current available). Just for the hell of it I worked out how much it would cost to convert my Locost but lost interest when the total went past £10K, and that would be using second-hand batteries.

As I am already the driver of an electric car (Kia e-Niro) I shall now duck down behind the parapet and await the outrage...

I might be completely of track, but weren't Westfield looking into a electric 7 awhile ago?

I know they've designed a electric shuttle car as I've seen that one

Search YouTube or Google for the megawatt.

Drag car thats battery powered,stupidly fast, but a range of just over 20miles iirc

quote:

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Originally posted by CosKev3
Search YouTube or Google for the megawatt.

Drag car thats battery powered,stupidly fast, but a range of just over 20miles iirc

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by perksy
I might be completely of track, but weren't Westfield looking into a electric 7 awhile ago?

---

In ten years time there should be components from scrapped teslas or leafs (leaves?) going a bit cheaper, surely that'd reduce the cost of an electric 7? When they did the SVA -> IVA thing wasn't there a grace period for vehicles already under construction, hopefully they'll do something like that again.

While i was at my initial IVA test a month or so ago, there was just two kit cars there being tested, but on the other side of the forecourt, there were over 15 Toyota Prius's being tested, used cars had been imported from somewhere and re-registered for use on our roads. I guess electric cars are the future although aren't some diesel cars being driven on crop based oils now ? With these crops being natural and regrown each year so reusable, isn't that another option ?

I saw that tv show, changing out the engine, gearbox, suspension and interior isn't a straight forward option.

There was a tv show called vintage voltage that electrified a chesil speedster.

https://www.vintagevoltage.tv/

quote:

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Originally posted by taylormade100
There was a tv show called vintage voltage that electrified a chesil speedster.

https://www.vintagevoltage.tv/

---

I would really like to drive an electric 7-style car. My 1.85 tonne Kia e-Niro can do 0 - 60 in 7.5 seconds, which is not trivial for a big fat family saloon. I think the trouble with a Locost would be keeping the wheels from spinning - the torque at zero revs is mighty!

There would be a weight penalty of course, but I worked out that removing the engine, gearbox and fuel tank would mean that I'd end up 75Kg heavier once the electrics went in. The torque and smooth acceleration would more than compensate for that.

All a pipe dream though, as I could never afford it... and I'd be more than a bit scared of the electrics, even though I've spent a large part of my life dealing with electrical stuff in one way or another. Each block of batteries has hundreds of volts live and ready to bite you if you make a mistake, and you have to wire several of them together in a car, then wire them to the battery management module, motor and charging socket. At least internal combustion components don't bite straight out of the box! (well, the 12v battery might, if you're REALLY careless).

Don't know what the panic is about, 10 years from now it will be more expensive to fit an engine in a car than a motor and there will be masses of second hand EVs to donate their components. Yeah the tech is different but that's all, it's just different not anymore complicated. If anything life's going to be easier as many of the manufacturers are going for rolling platforms with Interchangeable body shells like the VW ID, just like the old days of vw beetle based kits. If I still have a 7 style car in 10 years I'd be quite keen on converting it to electric.

Soon all sports cars will be electric as their performance can't be beaten, ferrari and lamborghini already know this as even now their getting a hiding from Tesla and the like. Before you know it engine power will look as antiquated as steam.




[Edited on 15/11/20 by Mr Whippy]

Around the time I built my Indy I am positive mk built a chassis / car for someone in Germany Who made it a electric powered car it is / was on utube

That was about 2004
Jacko

At Stoneleigh 2017 there was an electric 7, I have a picture of it which I can't load, SQL error, looks like it might be milk float tech. but by a company Trident engineering.

I seem to remember a single seater hillclimb car being designed with an electric motor driving each wheel
Not sure it ever got built though..

There are ton of options available to convert kit cars to electric, being helped that there are a few companies focussing on converting classic cars.

Eco classics did convert a Westfield Eleven, which equals/ slightly betters 1275 A-series
https://www.ecoclassics.co.uk/lotus-xi-replica-electrification

And Swindon Powertrain has a kit that fit the classic Mini subframe
https://swindonpowertrain.com/documents/Classic_Mini_Kit.pdf

I dont think the motor, controller and charger for electric propulsion is the biggest challenge, it is more about getting the batteries right.

You will need pretty much all the time a custom designed pack that fit in the space available and with a battery management systems. The engineering costs and cost for cells will be a big chunk of the total cost.

Another point ot touch on is legisation, looks like battery packs over 48V (and for good performance you will need high voltage) need to be ECE R100 homologated which adds costs and is only really viable for volume production.
Although Hyperdrive repackage Nissan Leaf Modules in 44V that are can be used modular.
https://hyperdriveinnovation.com/battery-energy-storage/

So like said before when you add everything together you soon looking at £10-20k costs for a system that performs adequate, but then have a look what a GM E-rod crate engine costs and that might convert us to V8 power.

Another previous thread on this topic:
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=215772


[Edited on 15/11/20 by ettore bugatti]

I think you're right - legislation around vehicle batteries will be a big hurdle, probably.

We'll see...

I am hoping that hydrogen technology gets stronger infrastructure as it would be more realistic for people that travel further than the current crop of battery powered cars can do. I look at the range on offer of cars below £30k and most of them are pathetic. Just not a viable option just now. They are getting better, but who wants to be sitting in a service station for an hour for batteries to charge?
Hopefully the demise of petrol will be another deadline that will be extended as the time gets closer and the powers that be realise the infrastructure is not there to support mass changeover to batteries.

Anyone tried to weld a hydrogen tank in a 7 yet

https://youtu.be/nqpziI2WZ6I

A YouTube vid of a guy converting an MX5 to ev. Looks like a lot of stuff to squeeze into a small space but must be doable.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/ do electric conversions on classics.

The chap I collected my gearbox from was putting a Tesla motor into his Boxster - he had a spare but wanted £3k for it. Sadly the batteries etc would cost upwards another £10k.

I'd love to build electric for the torque delivery and general performance but lack of range, cost and let's face it they don't sound that good

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
I think you're right - legislation around vehicle batteries will be a big hurdle, probably.

We'll see...

---

Imagine if the internal combustion engine had never been invented - I often wonder what sort of reaction there would be if someone tried to introduce petrol-engined cars as a new thing these days!

"What?! You want to put 50 litres of petrol in a metal box and strap it under a passenger-carrying vehicle that will travel at 70mph? With loads of other vehicles around you? Giving off all sorts of nasty fumes as it goes along? No way!"





[Edited on 15/11/20 by David Jenkins]

Don’t panic, the infrastructure to charge electric cars is not in place, this is propaganda piece because we are hosting the world climate change conference next year.
It is a little known fact that the power limit in most houses is only just up to the job as it stands, if every house in the UK had to charge a huge electric car power pack overnight the cables in the roads would melt ( at t to he same time your houses burst in to flames) and the national grid would collapse.
Now extrapolate the increase in world electrical use and in a few hundred years the earth will glow red because all that electrical power has to ground to earth

quote:

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Originally posted by snapper
Don’t panic, the infrastructure to charge electric cars is not in place....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by snapper
Don’t panic, the infrastructure to charge electric cars is not in place, this is propaganda piece because we are hosting the world climate change conference next year.
It is a little known fact that the power limit in most houses is only just up to the job as it stands, if every house in the UK had to charge a huge electric car power pack overnight the cables in the roads would melt ( at t to he same time your houses burst in to flames) and the national grid would collapse.
Now extrapolate the increase in world electrical use and in a few hundred years the earth will glow red because all that electrical power has to ground to earth

---

As he said - quite a few experts have stood up and said that the infrastructure isn't a problem. It will need managing, but it will cope.

What really does sound interesting is the proposal to put the cars' storage capacity on the grid; the technology already exists to use a car's battery in the same way as a Tesla battery (but not in the UK yet - soon though), but the idea is for all cars to store surplus energy to feed back into the grid in periods of high demand. Presumably there will be incentives to do this, otherwise most owners will give 2 fingers! Nice idea, but not sure of the practicality.

The only thing I had to do to my house was to get the main distribution fuse changed from the old 40A to the current standard of 100A, and the 'tails' that go to the meter changed to a greater thickness. Neither job cost me anything. I'm surprised the old fuse didn't blow, considering the stuff I use in the house, without considering the charger!

40 amp main fuse? That's mean! I didn't know that was even a thing. My supply is from about 1920 and is 100a!

They are on about banning NEW IC powered vehicles not petrol... For a few years taking a pre IC banned car and rebuilding it into a kit car might be a boon to the industry. Fuel will be available for decades, up until 2018 my local specialist garage still sold 4* complete with full fat lead.

I bet we can still build and run IC engines under a classic car scheme for another 30 years. I'll be to old to drive by then.

I'm more worried about banning human drivers than how we power our cars

16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5. He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.

I cycle to work. When I am coming home in the evenings the pizza delivery boys blast past me on converted electric biles with about three extra batteries strapped to the cross bar. They do not even pretend to pedal. Which has got me thinking...about a 7 style car with 4 driven wheels from electric bikes. If kept really light (say sub 300kg) it should be as fast as an electric bike which for around town is fast enough (says a man with a spreading conviction for doing 24mph!)

Four of these perhaps?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-1000W-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-Front-Wheel-Bike-Cycling-Hub-26/224126210080?epid=27032575958&hash=item 342ef69020:g:7JMAAOSwdPRfLjyT

just a pipe dream to keep me going as I pedal uphill

Strikes me that with narrow wheels it might be a welcome move back to the Chapman ideal of low weight etc.

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
Imagine if the internal combustion engine had never been invented - I often wonder what sort of reaction there would be if someone tried to introduce petrol-engined cars as a new thing these days!

"What?! You want to put 50 litres of petrol in a metal box and strap it under a passenger-carrying vehicle that will travel at 70mph? With loads of other vehicles around you? Giving off all sorts of nasty fumes as it goes along? No way!"





[Edited on 15/11/20 by David Jenkins]

---

In 1899 Jenatzy? held the speed record of 100kph for a while in an electric car.
Wonder if he could charge it at home?

quote:

---

Originally posted by BenB
40 amp main fuse? That's mean! I didn't know that was even a thing. My supply is from about 1920 and is 100a!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Irony
16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5. He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by ettore bugatti
And Swindon Powertrain has a kit that fit the classic Mini subframe
https://swindonpowertrain.com/documents/Classic_Mini_Kit.pdf

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
I think you're right - legislation around vehicle batteries will be a big hurdle, probably.

We'll see...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Irony
16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5. He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by peter030371.

I'm more worried about banning human drivers than how we power our cars

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stevebubs

quote:

---

Originally posted by ettore bugatti
And Swindon Powertrain has a kit that fit the classic Mini subframe
https://swindonpowertrain.com/documents/Classic_Mini_Kit.pdf

---

£30k+ when you add in the motor controller and batteries!!!

---

quote:

---

The ECE R100 approval process involved a first test by KBA concerning the compliance of quality and production systems, followed by the examination of the characteristics required for the manufacture of lithium batteries for electric vehicles.

After successfully completing the first phase, the second required safety testing to subject lithium batteries to the main stresses found during their use with vehicles:

Vibration test, 3 hours with variable frequency between 7 and 50Hz
Acceleration test, to simulate the deceleration in case of impact, up to 28G longitudinal and 15G transverse
Crushing test, 100kN = 10 tons laterally
Thermal stress test, from + 60 ° C to – 40 ° C
Fire resistance test, battery exposed to direct flame for 70 seconds reaching 700 ° C
Short circuit test
Test at maximum temperature, operation at 60 ° C
Test of internal security, overload test and over-text
Compliance with electrical safety

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 02GF74

That fear is based on what? Heard of autopilot on planes?

---

There is a big difference between an aircraft autopilot and a self driving car. An autopilot responds to simple commands and has limited, if any ability to react to its environment. In fact it is constantly receiving inputs from the pilots. Even so called drones are the same and largely reliant on ground station input. Trials are just beginning on fully autonomous ‘sense and avoid’ versions.

My Kia has a range of so called driver aids. Frankly, most are terrible! Lane assist: Works ok. As long as the road is well marked and dry. It doesn’t detect the white lines in damp or wet conditions and many Lincolnshire roads don’t have them. auto emergency brake: triggers when a car is turning left in front of you and is clear of your carriageway. Didn’t stop me rear-ending a woman who randomly stopped at a junction on a clear road having already set off! Distance cruise control. It’s great. Until it isn’t! If someone intrudes on the gap between you and the car in front and there is any sort of closure speed, it jams on the breaks. It’s only a matter of time before I collect someone in the rear.

Yes, these are 2019 Tech and there is a long way to go but my fear is that autonomous cars will introduced before they are fully ready. The boss of thatcham has already warned of this and the dangers of the semi-autonomous cars that are the stepping stone.

Interesting video of Johny Smith showing the technicals of the RBW electrofied MGB.



Similar system could work for a seven.


[Edited on 17/11/20 by ettore bugatti]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 02GF74

That fear is based on what? Heard of autopilot on planes?

---

Hi all,

Just to add my tuppence worth to the discussion on self driving cars...

Speaking as a software engineer, electronics engineer and petrol head, I strongly believe we'll be waiting a very long time (several decades at least) before cars are fully autonomous. Yes, we have some driver aids already plus Elon Musk would have us believe that full autonomy is just around the corner. Absolute nonsense though!

What is "around the corner" is a driving scenario that even the most advanced autonomous driving systems (not Tesla btw) aren't equipped to handle whereas a human driver would handle such a situation pretty well. Where humans tend to fall down is in areas such as tiredness, inattention and not taking account of road and weather conditions and those are certainly areas where autonomy has a role to play. (eg. detecting someone falling asleep and automatically pulling the vehicle over safely)

Coming back to Tesla/Musk, don't you find it interesting that it is easier to land two spent rocket stages simultaneously than it is to create a fully autonomous vehicle?

It's not rocket science....it's much harder than that!

Landing two rocket engines is a slightly more advanced inverted pendulum problem, genuinely baffling it took so long.

I don't believe it's as far away as you feel, but I will agree to disagree.

Autonomous cars?

My personal view here BTW

Personally I can't see the point in getting more cars onto overcrowded roads, especially empty cars. So many cars only have one person in them already it's laughable. I'm not a motorcyclist, but if we're really just trying to move single people around motorcycles do seem a better option. I'm sure if the manufacturer's put their minds to it we'd have motorcycles with better weather protection for damper colder climates.

For those that may have seen a Renault Twizy, I don't mean that. IMHO that didn't take off sales wise, because it didn't actually provide any proper answers. IIRC they were expensive as well.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Theshed
Four of these perhaps?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-1000W-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-Front-Wheel-Bike-Cycling-Hub-26/224126210080?epid=27032575958&hash=item 342ef69020:g:7JMAAOSwdPRfLjyT

just a pipe dream to keep me going as I pedal uphill

Strikes me that with narrow wheels it might be a welcome move back to the Chapman ideal of low weight etc.

---

Thinking further...

Encouraging employers to provide staff changing rooms and showers on-site would be another step forward. Before we moved premises we had a changing room and shower at work. It made cycling to work feasible. Yes you got there hot and sweaty, but a shower and fresh set of clothes soon sorted that and you're VERY wide awake for the day ahead.

Again, my personal views...

Help humans change their behaviour!

I believe that public transport should be an awful lot cheaper, and more reliable
My Daughter in law spends 10k a year to get to and from work on trains to London, and that represents 20% of her earnings just to get to work ?
Well it did, as she works from home this year, and has saved a shed load!

My take on Electric cars, is that Hybrids are the way forward, Petrol /Electric seem to be the best option, although the Prius is possibly the worst car ive ever ever driven! and as ive said before, i "used to work delivering brand new cars" the only fully electric car ive driven many times, is the Nissan leaf, and thankfully the longest drive i had to do was around 100 miles, just as well, as at motorway speeds it wouldnt of done many more,
I believe the figures say 160-180 mile range, but ive never experienced any thing close to those figures

Imho electric vehicles need to have a minimum range of at least 250 miles before being introduced on our roads in 2030

steve

The Nissan Leaf is not a good example - it's mileage estimates are rubbish, they lose miles rapidly if you go fast, and there are problems with repeated fast charging (a.k.a. RapidGate) . My e-Niro has a quoted range of 285 miles, but with constant 70 mph motorway driving with heating on, in rain and wind, that drops to 225 miles roughly. If I am going cross-country at the usual 50 - 60mph (which most people average, whatever car) in summer I can achieve somewhere around 300 miles (I have done this).

A very well-known YouTuber's recent video shows him driving a Kia e-Niro from Canterbury to Lands End, then on the John O'Groats, then back to Canterbury - in one weekend. He was driving most of the time at normal speeds for whatever road he was on. Recharging as he went, of course, plus an overnight stop, but it was a hell of an achievement.

Another group of people have got over 600 miles from an e-Niro like this - but that was at 25 - 30 mph constant, with all accessories off. On a test track, of course!

The nearest equivalent to a petrol/diesel car is the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. Unfortunately there are very few cars available, and none in this country. Also there are hardly any hydrogen stations in the UK. They've got a long way to go yet...

[Edited on 19/11/20 by David Jenkins]

quote:

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Originally posted by nick205
Autonomous cars?

My personal view here BTW

Personally I can't see the point in getting more cars onto overcrowded roads, especially empty cars. So many cars only have one person in them already it's laughable. I'm not a motorcyclist, but if we're really just trying to move single people around motorcycles do seem a better option. I'm sure if the manufacturer's put their minds to it we'd have motorcycles with better weather protection for damper colder climates.

For those that may have seen a Renault Twizy, I don't mean that. IMHO that didn't take off sales wise, because it didn't actually provide any proper answers. IIRC they were expensive as well.

---

I've got to disagree with the notion of hybrids being the way forward. They combine the complexity of both internal combustion and an electric powertrain while being neither a good IC vehicle nor a good BEV vehicle. It's a compromise plain and simple. The only reason they are popular is because Toyota have done a damned good job of their hybrid platform at a time when a full BEV was technically difficult. That time has now passed.

However, with EV ranges now exceeding 200 miles and charging infrastructure improving, it is fast approaching the point where there is no perceivable downside to EV ownership. We've owned a BMW i3 since January 2017 and my wife commutes around 60 miles a day in it an absolutely loves it. Granted, our i3 only has a range of around 120 miles as it's a 2017 model but that is almost never a problem and we have the 535d as our long range cruiser. I realise, not everyone can justify two cars but for those who can, a separate BEV and Petrol/Diesel car are a far better option than a hybrid. We mostly charge the i3 at home but our electricity provider Octopus have a tariff where you get electricity at 5p/kWh for 4 hours each night. That's more than enough time to charge the car each day and results in a full charge for less than £1.50. That's something like 1.25p/mile!

Then there is servicing, which for the i3 is very cheap since you only need to change brake fluid and cabin air filters every couple of years. No oil/filter changes, spark plugs, fuel filters, engine air filters, belts, water pumps, coolant, thermostats and even the braking systems last forever due to regenerative braking. The i3 is made of aluminium, plastic and carbon fibre so rust isn't a problem either. It does tend to chew through tyres quite quickly but that's mainly due to the 170 BHP and the fun factor of zooming around.

I know that things have moved on a lot since we bought our i3 and in many ways there are better cars available out there depending on what you are looking for. The i3 certainly doesn't excel in terms of range but honestly I couldn't care less if some cars can do 300 miles on a charge because nobody should be driving 300 miles at a time without taking a 20-30 minute break during which time you can recharge. I personally love to just keep moving but I'm usually travelling with others who like to stretch their legs every couple of hours. Why carry the weight and cost of battery capacity you rarely need?

Lots of good EV options out there now and it'll only get better in the next decade. Nothing to fear IMHO and I would seriously consider converting my V8 Locost into an electric one if it didn't cost so much!

ok lets have a think about this .

lets look at a motorway service station , we will need to refuel more due to ltd endurance , so say i need to go from Manchester to London
for the foreseeable future that's at least 1 full recharge possibly 2 , south coast even more ,
so lets do some sums
it takes 40 mins to 1 hr to charge i believe

so lets say 1 car 1 hr charge ( maybe using super capacitors ) 100kwh
now times that by say 100 cars per hour probably fair , now that's 100,000 kwh per hr per motorway station
now that's some feed cable / substation infrastructure there to start with
feel free to correct my numbers ps: now add in commercial vehicle's who need what 800 kwh battery packs !

now lets look at home charging
each house has 1 to 2 electric cars ( this is a low average figure )
so they have to recharge over night say
now every one down your street has to do the same thing plus run Electric Heating / cooking !

so houses are loaded on the street supply now tacking into account not every one needs electric at the same time BUT " now they do"

so Ladies and Gentlemen and every one else , we now have world cup switching on the kettle at half time x a factor of 20 - 30 ?

so we have to rewire every street in the uk every substation and the grid , build probably 2 to 3 times as many power stations without green house emission's.

any one else here see a problem ?????

quote:

---

Originally posted by bart
ok lets have a think about this .

lets look at a motorway service station , we will need to refuel more due to ltd endurance , so say i need to go from Manchester to London
for the foreseeable future that's at least 1 full recharge possibly 2 , south coast even more ,
so lets do some sums
it takes 40 mins to 1 hr to charge i believe

so lets say 1 car 1 hr charge ( maybe using super capacitors ) 100kwh
now times that by say 100 cars per hour probably fair , now that's 100,000 kwh per hr per motorway station
now that's some feed cable / substation infrastructure there to start with
feel free to correct my numbers ps: now add in commercial vehicle's who need what 800 kwh battery packs !

now lets look at home charging
each house has 1 to 2 electric cars ( this is a low average figure )
so they have to recharge over night say
now every one down your street has to do the same thing plus run Electric Heating / cooking !

so houses are loaded on the street supply now tacking into account not every one needs electric at the same time BUT " now they do"

so Ladies and Gentlemen and every one else , we now have world cup switching on the kettle at half time x a factor of 20 - 30 ?

so we have to rewire every street in the uk every substation and the grid , build probably 2 to 3 times as many power stations without green house emission's.

any one else here see a problem ?????

---

The trouble is that electric cars cannot do some things that petrol ones can. For instance, one Friday night, I arrived home from work at the same time as my wife found an answerphone message that a relative had died and was being buried the next day. We were too late to get a plane that night and the earliest in the morning would be too late to get us there. We had a couple of hours to get ready and get the kids to my parents, before we drove from Manchester to Holyhead; Onto the ferry; From Dun Loaghaire to Sligo, arriving 15 minutes before the funeral. We attended the mass, drove to the graveyard for the burial, then to a hotel for the reception. Stayed about an hour, drove to Belfast, ferry to Cairnryan, back to Manchester and picked the kids up. Almost 24 hours start to finish, 5 to 10 minute stops for petrol, toilet and driver change only.

Another time, after driving home from another part of the country, a friend phoned asking to be driven from Manchester to Nottingham - his mother had just died, he did not feel safe to drive, but he needed to get there quickly - a sudden, unplanned for journey, immediately after another long journey.

If electric cars switch to standardised, replaceable battery packs (maybe one for small, short distance town cars), one (or more when required) for longer distance, larger vehicles. Each manufacturer to detail location, angle of movement, etc. to remove and insert and stations that can swap the batteries in minutes, using robot arms - then they will be a suitable replacement.

There will always be exceptions, and solutions will emerge to deal with them. I know this wouldn't have helped in your case but BMW already have a scheme for EV drivers where you can hire a petrol/diesel car at good rates for those times when an EV isn't appropriate. I'm sure in future it'll be possible to drive into a facility in your EV and drive out in a diesel. Or perhaps just drive the EV onto a train like on the channel tunnel and then drive off at the other end. Lots of possibilities which are probably preferable to driving non stop for 24 hours.

I've always wanted a Land Rover Defender fully kitted out with snorkel and extra fuel tanks and camping gear etc for when the zombie apocalypse (or next pandemic...) happens but until 2020 happened I didn't think I could justify it! Maybe time for a rethink!

quote:

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Originally posted by craig1410
our electricity provider Octopus have a tariff where you get electricity at 5p/kWh for 4 hours each night.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by craig1410
The World Cup kettle analogy falls down in that not everyone needs to charge at the exact same time.

---

I'm on Octopus Agile - the price of electricity varies every 30 minutes, according to the market price. It generally averages around 10p - 11p per KWh, which is cheaper than the usual fixed rate but it can go way below that at off-peak times, even down to a negative price. The only down-side on this tariff is that you get hammered at the peak consumption period between 16:00 and 19:00 every evening (around 28 - 30p per KWh). This wouldn't suit some people, but as there are only 2 of us in the house, and a lot of the time we cook on the gas hob anyway, this is a penalty we can cope with. We make sure to never charge the car, run the tumble drier, etc during this period. Of course, this is exactly what the electricity company is trying to encourage - levelling the load on the grid.

The result of this is that on sunny days I often charge the car during 'normal-to-low rate' times so that our solar panels take some of the load - on good days I'm only taking 4KWh off the grid, with solar providing the other 3.2KWh. And I'm getting paid for that 3.2KWh...

I believe that everybody's electricity use is going to change in the near future as many companies have seen how popular Octopus Agile has become - there are at least 2 other companies with similar schemes starting up quite soon.

Quick and shameless plug: if anyone wants to change to Octopus please get in touch with me - I can give you a referral code that would mean a significant chunk of money off each of our bills!

quote:

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Originally posted by coyoteboy
Nah not IMO, motorcycles have 33x the fatality rate of cars because of a host of reasons, not least the lack of protection.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slimy38

quote:

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Originally posted by craig1410
our electricity provider Octopus have a tariff where you get electricity at 5p/kWh for 4 hours each night.

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quote:

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Originally posted by craig1410
The World Cup kettle analogy falls down in that not everyone needs to charge at the exact same time.

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Those 4 hours are going to be very popular though?

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Purely a coincidence, but I've just seen a picture on the Kia e-Niro facebook group that shows a car's display after a charge: 278 miles predicted range, 58295 miles on the odometer. 278 miles is pretty damn close to the 285 miles predicted by Kia. This driver uses a mixture of home (slow) charging together with high-speed charging during his working day. Slightly skewed data as I believe that the owner is a cab/uber driver in London so he would rarely do sustained long-distance/high-speed driving, but it's still impressive. This shows that batteries are no longer as delicate as they used to be, although he has gone through quite a few tyres in that period!

Note: I know I keep blowing the trumpet for electric cars, but I am very realistic about them - mine handles 99% of my driving, and I can cope with the other 1%. My wife's family lives in and around Gloucester - I can easily drive there on one charge and still have a bit of charge to spare (although we normally stop at Milton Keynes for lunch and a top-up charge while eating). My brother lives in Dornock, Scotland and that's a 2-day journey from East Anglia, if I'm going to be sensible about driving long distances. I can get to Glasgow in 2 hops, charging while we have lunch plus probably one brief extra top-up (pee break!), and easily get to Dornock in one hop the next day, with 'half a tank' remaining. Both journeys would be at normal speeds, not reduced to get more range.

With my old 40KWh Nissan Leaf I'd be lucky to get 125 miles on a full charge at dual-carriageway/motorway speeds. I certainly couldn't even get to Gloucester without a significant charge at MK.

I really think there is a need for some sort of drive on, drive off train, ideally with charging capability onboard for the electric cars it is transporting. If that formed a "backbone" up and down, and perhaps across the wider parts of the country so that everyone can get to within say 150-200 miles of any part of the UK, then problem solved!

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Originally posted by craig1410
I really think there is a need for some sort of drive on, drive off train, ideally with charging capability onboard for the electric cars it is transporting. If that formed a "backbone" up and down, and perhaps across the wider parts of the country so that everyone can get to within say 150-200 miles of any part of the UK, then problem solved!

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Originally posted by David Jenkins

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Originally posted by craig1410
I really think there is a need for some sort of drive on, drive off train, ideally with charging capability onboard for the electric cars it is transporting. If that formed a "backbone" up and down, and perhaps across the wider parts of the country so that everyone can get to within say 150-200 miles of any part of the UK, then problem solved!

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It costs a single person so much to get just a rail ticket across the country that I think it would be much cheaper to drive the electric car, even taking the expensive high-speed chargers into consideration. In fact, for my Scottish trip, you could include the cost of the overnight stay and still end up cheaper!

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Like others have said about digging up the roads, we're not making provisions now on the new builds.

I'm unlucky enough* to have worked on some fairly large London regeneration projects, and for the number of units we're putting onto a site (think tower blocks) have only a handful of charging points allowed for. Admittedly I switch off when M& E start to talk because they ALWAYS cause trouble.

If this is the future, why is there not a provision for every parking spot to be EV ready ? doesn't need a cable to it or a charging point, just a way of making it easy to hook up when needed.


As for autopilot cars, this will happen and we'll have to lump it. They'll force you to do it by hiking up insurance or something else until only the very rich can afford to drive.




*I am lucky to be working, I know. But most days it doesn't seem fun.

[Edited on 20/11/20 by pigeondave]

Will many of us still be here in 2030 ? as with whats going on at the moment, a good percentage of us wont be!
Also, and im unemployed now since March, my annual mileage is about 1k and all local ,

Im sorry to say, but our elected govenment are f ing clowns, and should be rallying us all around to be positive , and look forward to our future and good covid free health, but oh no, the elected idiots have decided that one of their
incestuous sisters, who's a raciest and bully is innocent ??
they sack half the team that have been advising these idiots about covid ?
They invest billions of pounds to our military, money we dont have, so our kids and grandkids will be destitute
They have fucked up totally over Brexit

I am sorry, but i have no faith in these clowns ordering a cheese sandwich, let alone making a real decision that will affect ALL our lives,
This 2030 nonsense wont happen, and i doubt it will in 2040 the original dates banded about,

And then, just to make matters worse, we have a complete loon in America, with one finger hovering over "the red button"

steve

In the year 2525

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-search-sa&p=in+the+year+2525#id=1&vid=6bf539eaf11904d9f6ca564bee0d20d6&action=click

Well that went political all of a sudden.

I should probably refrain from further comment

Craig, unless you are on the inside, and are unable to comment please feel free

However, within my circle of family, friends associates not one of us has any faith in any of the elected idiots in charge of this country at the moment,
and at my age of 60, i have never known a time, were i could say ALL, thats all parties, theres not one person out there i would trust running a charity shop

We would of been in a better state of affairs if the Monster raving looney party were in power

just saying

steve

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Originally posted by steve m
In the year 2525

https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-search-sa&p=in+the+year+2525#id=1&vid=6bf539eaf11904d9f6ca564bee0d20d6&action=click

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Originally posted by steve m
We would of been in a better state of affairs if the Monster raving looney party were in power

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Tbh top of my list for things next year is to get an EV, nothing fancy, most likely an older Leaf. Even its 100 mile'ish range is way more than I need. I'm really looking forward to it, even being an old petrol head.

I've been in Tesla's at events, their just the stuff of dreams, well outside my price range for now, but if I won the lottery, feck the Ferrari I'll be in the Tesla showroom that same day

Been in a leaf at 30mph on grass, literally could not hear anything, it was just totally silent! Very weird.

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Originally posted by steve m
Craig, unless you are on the inside, and are unable to comment please feel free

However, within my circle of family, friends associates not one of us has any faith in any of the elected idiots in charge of this country at the moment,
and at my age of 60, i have never known a time, were i could say ALL, thats all parties, theres not one person out there i would trust running a charity shop

We would of been in a better state of affairs if the Monster raving looney party were in power

just saying

steve

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Tbh top of my list for things next year is to get an EV, nothing fancy, most likely an older Leaf. Even its 100 mile'ish range is way more than I need. I'm really looking forward to it, even being an old petrol head.

I've been in Tesla's at events, their just the stuff of dreams, well outside my price range for now, but if I won the lottery, feck the Ferrari I'll be in the Tesla showroom that same day

Been in a leaf at 30mph on grass, literally could not hear anything, it was just totally silent! Very weird.

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Hydrogen. That’s the way ahead!

Some may want fancy and expensive fuel cell technology powered by hydrogen...but lets just burn it instead. We can then keep our V12s and V8s, revel in the sound and bottle the emissions to drink on our journey....

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Tbh top of my list for things next year is to get an EV, nothing fancy, most likely an older Leaf. Even its 100 mile'ish range is way more than I need. I'm really looking forward to it, even being an old petrol head.

I've been in Tesla's at events, their just the stuff of dreams, well outside my price range for now, but if I won the lottery, feck the Ferrari I'll be in the Tesla showroom that same day

Been in a leaf at 30mph on grass, literally could not hear anything, it was just totally silent! Very weird.

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Thanks, the leaf would be used for very specific journeys, all quite short and highly predictable. We have a volvo for long trips and towing. The Renault Zoe is a cracking car but more expensive and the battery lease too expensive for its purpose, although for higher mileages it would be my first choice.

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Originally posted by perksy
I seem to remember a single seater hillclimb car being designed with an electric motor driving each wheel
Not sure it ever got built though..

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My two penneth: The speed of electric sports cars will be nuts but the lack of sound will mean fewer people think it's worth it to have the compromise of a small sports car. Given the electric motors can shift chunky cars relatively quickly (like Dave's Niro) I expect the future will be sport versions of 'compact SUVs'.

Regarding costs coming down for kit car builders in the future... Possibly. However, the biggest car seller in Europe (VW) have announced they are no longer planning on making cars to be sold to people for personal ownership, only making cars that people can rent/ pay as they use. If others follow suit then the chance to pick up cheap second hand cars might just disappear entirely!

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Originally posted by David H

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Originally posted by perksy
I seem to remember a single seater hillclimb car being designed with an electric motor driving each wheel
Not sure it ever got built though..

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On the topic of hill climbs, Pike’s Peak at >14,000 feet is the ultimate test. An electric car took the record in 2018 and will continue to do so. Electric cars aren’t gasping for air at that altitude.

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Originally posted by David Jenkins

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Originally posted by CosKev3
Search YouTube or Google for the megawatt.

Drag car thats battery powered,stupidly fast, but a range of just over 20miles iirc

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Have you seen how much nitro-methane a top-fuel dragster uses on a quarter-mile run?!

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