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F1 could be a spoiler
jacko - 12/12/21 at 05:20 PM

So what do people think of the results of the world championship Max yes or no

[Edited on 12/12/21 by jacko]

Slater - 12/12/21 at 05:44 PM

very exciting race, I'm amazing they both stayed on track and finished. But sour grapes from the Merc management trying to protest & change the results after the race...ongoing..... Both good and bad for the sport, I think. too much rests on stewards decisions these days. We were all screaming at the TV on that last lap.

At least we get a new world champ.

femster87 - 12/12/21 at 06:18 PM

"sour grapes from the Merc management trying to protest".

Lool, its must be quite painful for them. I can feel their pain. Won't call it sour grapes, just the norm. Do you see how much Christian Horner moans when a decision goes again Redbull

JC - 12/12/21 at 08:04 PM

Bad day for F1. The rice director made an arbitrary decision to bend the rules in a way that handed the title to Verstappen. Whatever happens now is bad.
Hamilton was the best driver on the day and should have won the race. And don’t forget Max won Belgium under a similarly farcical full race safety car…..

BenB - 13/12/21 at 08:27 AM

Absolute farce. Merc made the right call for a race run under the regulations. Masi invented new rules to create a "race" which was only ever going to have one result. Ridiculous. Ending under the safety car would have been bad. What happened was just wrong- and way worse. Last race I'm watching. Spa took the wee but this was a new level of stupid. It's clear Liberty/FIA want it to be a "show". I was hoping for some racing. I'm hoping it goes to appeal, give some integrity back to the sport. It'll be messy but at some point they've got to realise they're responsible for decades of motor racing legacy and while some of it is technical, boring or even just a procession round a racetrack, spicing it up with flakey rule changes on the last lap is cheapening the sport beyond all recognition.

russbost - 13/12/21 at 09:21 AM

Once Masi decided to allow ONLY the 5 cars between Lewis & Max to pass there were only 2 possible outcomes to the race, that Max was going to win it or that they were going to crash, as there was clearly no way Lewis on 40 lap old hard tyres was going to be able to mount any realistic defence to the Red Bull on scrubbed super softs & no way that Max wasn't going to get past at whatever cost.

The race, at any other time in the season, would have ended under safety car

It's not a satisfactory result for anyone really, Lewis/Merc will always feel they were robbed & Max, if he has any inkling of reality will know that effectively he's been gifted a title won by Lewis, the biggest loser is the sport .......

Great shame at the end of an incredible season's racing

[Edited on 13/12/21 by russbost]

Jeano - 13/12/21 at 09:24 AM

The season was amazing. I feel that has put a dampener on the entire thing to be honest. It just gone to entertainement and no sport i feel.

Red Bull - Sterling Job and well done to them although im not a fan of Max due to his general driving and attitude.

Mercedes - have every right to be angry

FIA - Joke, Masi should be fired. He made a decision that decided the Worlds Title. Like Rus said, once they restarted it was all over, i was surprised Lewis was able to fight as much as he did.

David Jenkins - 13/12/21 at 10:11 AM

Frankly, I couldn't care less.

I haven't had any interest in F1 for many years - I would rather British Touring Cars, or any sort of professional bike racing. In other words, any form of racing where the winner isn't so predictable.

SJ - 13/12/21 at 10:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Frankly, I couldn't care less.

I haven't had any interest in F1 for many years - I would rather British Touring Cars, or any sort of professional bike racing. In other words, any form of racing where the winner isn't so predictable.


Me too. Shame really

designer - 13/12/21 at 10:27 AM

If the result had been Lewis winning the same way it would be called a 'stroke of genius'. A lot of sour grapes going around.

russbost - 13/12/21 at 10:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by designer
If the result had been Lewis winning the same way it would be called a 'stroke of genius'. A lot of sour grapes going around.


I actually don't think that's true, the reason people are stoked about it is that Masi quite literally rewrote the rulebook & threw all existing precedent out of the window simply to create a one lap "spectacle" which was only ever going to favour one driver & team. Pretty sure people would be up in arms whichever way it went.

I think the whole concept of team bosses being able to "lobby" the FIA in real time emasculates them (the FIA) somewhat, Horner's comment "we need to get those cars out of the way" referring to the lapped cars, was bang out of order, if they were going to get those cars out of the way then they should have moved the rest of the lapped cars thro' as well (which is what precedent shows) in which case the safety car would have been out for another lap & race would have ended under SC with Lewis as the winner

Had they left the lapped cars there, given that they'd be blue flagged & Max's propensity for seeing gaps where there aren't any, I think he'd still have mounted a challenge, but it would at least have been a more even playing field!

myke pocock - 13/12/21 at 10:44 AM

Some people seem to have forgotten that Red Bull took a gamble and changed tyres. If they had both been on old tyres in the last lap then perhaps Hamilton would have won. Give RB some credit for their gamble!!! Mercedes had the option as well.
Anyway why should I care. Ile stick to my own grass roots motorsport. Far more fun to be had.

[Edited on 13/12/21 by myke pocock]

rdodger - 13/12/21 at 10:59 AM

I don't think it's anything to do with either team or what they did during the race

I don't really like either driver and would rather see Williams win

The problem I have is Masi and the FIA didn't follow their own rules. Simple as that!

You can argue Red Bull did a great tactical job and they did

You can also argue that if Mercedes were aware Masi was going to not follow the rules they would have pitted Hamilton to new soft tyres and raced the last lap.

The FIA are a disgrace.

hughpinder - 13/12/21 at 11:39 AM

I thought it was very poor. Yes Red Bull took a gamble switching to softs, and Mercedes didn't respond by slipping on softs too - you can understand why not as they take a risk of some issue during the change handing the lead to Max. However, if they had known that the 5 cars that Max needed to overtake before catching Hamiltom were going to be removed from the track before racing restarted, they would 100% have taken that chance.
Obviously Max on softs with 3 laps to scrub in and Hamilton on end of life hards there was at least 2 seconds/lap advantage to Max, - was no race at all. Hamilton also had the disadvantage that a collision would hand the title to max (unless Max went out and he didn't) so a crash only mattered one way.

coyoteboy - 13/12/21 at 01:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Frankly, I couldn't care less.

I haven't had any interest in F1 for many years - I would rather British Touring Cars, or any sort of professional bike racing. In other words, any form of racing where the winner isn't so predictable.

I used to think this but I've been drawn back in.

Simon - 13/12/21 at 01:39 PM

Like tax law, F1 has way too many rules.

Glad Max won, no idea what he's like as a person but ever since Hamilton emigrated "to escape the fans" to a tax haven I couldn't give a feck what happens to him.

And, I really don't care about F1 either. Drivers are turning into a bunch of primadonnas (like football)

Shooter63 - 13/12/21 at 10:46 PM

I think the whole situation is a joke, but I think we discovered something on Sunday, F1 is no longer a competition it is now entertainment, but we shouldn't be surprised, its now no different to WWE with the winner rigged for TV . The way Horner has acted makes me feel ashamed to be English, to call a fellow team principal names is pathetic, Masi is a man in over his head or on the take ( no doubt time will tell) , if Charlie Whiting was still about he would have nipped the antics of both drivers in the bud and told both Horner and Wollf to F Off. If Max had any sort of Honor he would have stayed behind Lewis as it was the right thing to do, I've just seen an interview with him and to be honest I thought he looked embarrassed, he didn't win the championship he was given it.

Shooter

BenB - 13/12/21 at 10:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Shooter63
I think the whole situation is a joke, but I think we discovered something on Sunday, F1 is no longer a competition it is now entertainment, but we shouldn't be surprised, its now no different to WWE with the winner rigged for TV . The way Horner has acted makes me feel ashamed to be English, to call a fellow team principal names is pathetic, Masi is a man in over his head or on the take ( no doubt time will tell) , if Charlie Whiting was still about he would have nipped the antics of both drivers in the bud and told both Horner and Wollf to F Off. If Max had any sort of Honor he would have stayed behind Lewis as it was the right thing to do, I've just seen an interview with him and to be honest I thought he looked embarrassed, he didn't win the championship he was given it.

Shooter


Shooting straight from the hip. Amen. Max should have stayed behind or MB should have just gone to the pits and stopped at the lights.

JC - 14/12/21 at 05:15 AM

The safety car has always disadvantaged the car in the lead. Maybe they should alter the rules - any safety car in the last 5-10 laps is an immediate red flag, everyone can change tyres and have a standing restart. There’s your spectacle tor TV, and a more level playing field.

Jeano - 14/12/21 at 08:10 AM

quote:
Originally posted by JC
The safety car has always disadvantaged the car in the lead. Maybe they should alter the rules - any safety car in the last 5-10 laps is an immediate red flag, everyone can change tyres and have a standing restart. There’s your spectacle tor TV, and a more level playing field.


This! Exactly what i said. In a championship defining race they should have red flagged it and cleared the track we would have had 5 laps of fair good racing. It would of wiped out hamiltons advantage but wouldnt have been like sending a man on crutches to a 100m sprint

sebastiaan - 14/12/21 at 09:44 AM

I'll just say two things about this ;-)

1) If a mediocre driver like Perez can keep Lewis behind him for a lap on fully worn softs, how come Lewis could not do the same with Max?
2) red flag would've been better indeed


Ok, maybe a two more...

3) team principals were both out of line many times during the season. But they have been given the room to do so with the 2-way comms. Luckily that will be a thing of the past next year.
4) overall, I think Masi did a decent job given how much (time!) pressure he's under. And with all of the comms on full public display as well. I surely could not have done better myself.

Sanzomat - 14/12/21 at 10:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan

1) If a mediocre driver like Perez can keep Lewis behind him for a lap on fully worn softs, how come Lewis could not do the same with Max?


I wouldn't say Perez is mediocre but I do get your point. I think some of Perez's blocking moves were borderline dangerous and if Hamilton had forced the issue there would likely have been a crash thus handing the race (and championship) to Max hence Hamilton was wisely waiting for a safe passing opportunity. When it was Max vs Lewis the difference was that if there had been a crash, even if both drivers were out of the race Max would have still been champion so Hamilton had no reason to make risky blocking moves.


The other thing nobody has mentioned so far is that Hamilton got off very lightly with the stewards decision on the first lap. In any other race he would have been deemed to have taken unfair advantage and had to give the place to Max. It was a torpedo lunge from Max there though...

russbost - 14/12/21 at 10:15 AM

"It was a torpedo lunge from Max there though..." - I think that's why the stewards went the way they did, Hamilton couldn't have stayed on the circuit, had he done so Max would have hit him, there was no room left & I seem to racall there's supposed to be a car's width?

Slater - 14/12/21 at 11:07 AM

One other thing..... well done to Channel 4 for getting the live coverage onto all our TV screens, same as they did when Emma Radacanu was in the US Tennis Final. Whoever made those decisions needs a pat on the back.

Us Locost folk don't want to be paying sky subscriptions.....

sdh2903 - 14/12/21 at 04:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"It was a torpedo lunge from Max there though..." - I think that's why the stewards went the way they did, Hamilton couldn't have stayed on the circuit, had he done so Max would have hit him, there was no room left & I seem to racall there's supposed to be a car's width?


Lewis left the door open for him. At the apex max was ahead. So according to the rules its max's corner and as such he doesn't need to leave space as long as he keeps it on track, Lewis should yield. Which he did technically but he did gain an advantage by going off. They were told to give the gap back but I never saw them do it. Irrelevant really as the pace of hamilton was far superior anyway and would've taken the place back easily.

Regarding the perez comments. There's a good few rumours going around that they short fuelled him to give him a better chance of supporting max, hence the 'retirement'. Plus they were massively off the pace when they were tussling. Perez did a great job of positioning the car and then with the lower downforce package could still briefly fight on the straights too.

Glad they've broken lewis' dominance, sad how it was engineered to happen.

The only thing consistent this season was the inconsistency.

craig1410 - 14/12/21 at 11:59 PM

Some random thoughts:

1. It's been a long season and both drivers have been head and shoulders above the rest. Either driver would have been a worthy champion.

2. Overall, prior to Abu Dhabi, Max had received more bad luck than Lewis (my opinion but shared by many)

3. Both team bosses have been pressuring Masi but to my mind Toto (who I actually really like) has been way over the limit with his condescending "Mikey, No!...." broadcasts. Red Bull have been much more professional when lobbying the Race Director. That said, I don't think ANY team should be routinely lobbying the Race Director. It should be a case of "don't speak unless spoken to" with the only exception being for safety related issues.

4. There is zero doubt in my mind that the first lap incident should have resulted in Lewis yielding to Max. Pretty much every commentator agreed that it was a slam-dunk yield. Lewis left the door open and Max drove through it. Ironically, I think that if Lewis had been asked to yield, his much better race pace would have resulted in him overtaking Max within a few laps anyway. Yes, Max might have crashed rather than yield but that was no guarantee of a win for Max given the FIA spotlight that was on the race. Worst case for Lewis is that he would have benefited from the SC instead of Max.

5. The SC itself, as is often the case, took way too long to clear. I don't understand why they can't just hook up a winch and yank the car off the track pronto! Nobody wants to see a race/championship finish in SC conditions so I understand the pressure to get the race underway again. Michael Masi had only seconds to make decisions that will be second guessed for years. I think he took a pragmatic decision under immense pressure and I'm pretty sure I couldn't have done any better so won't criticise. Yes, I'm sure we all wish Charlie Whiting had still been around to make that call but there is no guarantee that the result would have been any different. (Sidenote: I loved the way Masi told Toto Wolff that "...it's called a motor race" - Toto deserved that without doubt!

Bottom line - Max is a worthy winner and Schumacher's record is safe for another year. Lewis is a fine driver but has been blessed by driving an unbeatable car for so long. I think it's only fair that he will have to wait a bit longer to have the chance to beat Michael's record.

Final thoughts - I'm not a Hamilton fan (massive Alonso fan ) but I was very pleasantly surprised at the candour of Lewis and Anthony Hamilton when congratulating Max and Jos. Massive respect to them for that gesture. Unfortunately Toto threw his toys out of the pram and let loose his QC which he just happened to have right there at the race.

If this result is overturned then I am done with F1 forever. Even Lewis didn't support the protests and he is the one with most to gain.

Can't wait for 2022 - Alonso FTW!

James - 17/12/21 at 02:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Like tax law, F1 has way too many rules.

Glad Max won, no idea what he's like as a person but ever since Hamilton emigrated "to escape the fans" to a tax haven I couldn't give a feck what happens to him.

And, I really don't care about F1 either. Drivers are turning into a bunch of primadonnas (like football)



Max, along with most of the other drivers, also lives in Monaco (since 2015) so to that would seem a strange reasons to support him over Hamilton.

You might also wish to investigate the specific taxation rules for international sportspeople which mean that not only does Hamilton's British-registered company (which actually receives his income from Merc and sponsors) and pays UK corporation tax but under international law, his tax is split between all the countries he competes in (so everywhere that holds a race). It's only his personal tax which would be free of income tax and that would be minimised wherever he lived.
HMG themselves agree that Hamilton is in the top 5000 tax payers in the UK.

Cheers!
James

James - 17/12/21 at 02:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Like tax law, F1 has way too many rules.

Glad Max won, no idea what he's like as a person but ever since Hamilton emigrated "to escape the fans" to a tax haven I couldn't give a feck what happens to him.

And, I really don't care about F1 either. Drivers are turning into a bunch of primadonnas (like football)



Max, along with most of the other drivers, also lives in Monaco (since 2015) so to that would seem a strange reasons to support him over Hamilton.

You might also wish to investigate the specific taxation rules for international sportspeople which mean that not only does Hamilton's British-registered company (which actually receives his income from Merc and sponsors) pays UK corporation tax but under international law, his tax is split between all the countries he competes in (so everywhere that holds a race). This is the same for tennis players and other 'travelling' sportspeople. It's only his personal tax which would be free of income tax and that would be minimised wherever he lived.
HMG themselves agree that Hamilton is in the top 5000 tax payers in the UK.

Cheers!
James

[Edited on 17/12/21 by James]

James - 23/12/21 at 12:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Frankly, I couldn't care less.

I haven't had any interest in F1 for many years - I would rather British Touring Cars, or any sort of professional bike racing. In other words, any form of racing where the winner isn't so predictable.


Bear in mind we didn't know who was likely to win all season, the WDC lead changed 5/6(?) times, and the WCC difference was down to 1(?) point at one point, and the leaders were equal on points going into the last race, it seems difficult to argue that the result was predictable?

If anything, the farce at Abu Dhabi showed that someone other than the predicted winner can win a race!

I get that it was dull a few years ago but things have been great for quite a few seasons now.

James

David Jenkins - 23/12/21 at 12:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by James

I get that it was dull a few years ago but things have been great for quite a few seasons now.

James


I still can't be bothered to watch it!