Hello all,

Wondered if anyone has any recommendations for a HID conversion source? We have a 58 Skoda Roomster - fantastic car (just back from holiday in France, if you take the back seats out and you can get all your gear and 3x mountain bikes inside, and as much cheese as you want on the way back) BUT the lights are rubbish.

Main beam is OK, and on an empty road dip is just about, but when someone comes the other way it feels dangerously dim, particularly if they have bright lights and/or forget to dip. The lights are projectors not reflectors, so my understanding is that HIDs are a better bet than LEDs. Anyone done similar? I'm looking at these https://www.hids4u.co.uk/H7-HIDS4U-Stealth-35W-Xenon-HID-Conversion- Kit.html

I appreciate that HID conversions could have MOT issues but all I have read suggests that this is hypothetical rather than real, and that provided the angles are set correctly we shouldn't inconvenience other road users.

Thanks in advance!

it is not a 'hypothetical' mot issue,
but is perfectly reasonable if you replace the whole lamp unit (which these don't)

mot testers manual

"Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test."

edit try to make link work, and italicize quote


[Edited on 6/9/22 by gremlin1234]

replying to my own post...
the mot manual says replacing halogen with led/hid is prohibited, but does not prohibit replacing led with hid...

Heat output from HID conversions can be vast. I had some in my Halogen reflector headlights (beam pattern was perfectly good, no real glare (more than stock anyway) and passed MOT) but it burned the reflective coating off the bowls. In a projector, that heat is even more contained.

LED is the safer route if you want to ignore legalities but I've only found a couple that actually work well with a good beam pattern - others produce horrendous glare.

[Edited on 6/9/22 by coyoteboy]

OK, thanks as always both of you. I think perhaps the oldish posts I had read on Skoda forum and elsewhere underplayed the MOT issue with new retrofit HIDs. I obviously don't want to fit something that is unsafe or blinds everybody driving in the opposite direction!

I have halogens now so the LED->HID route won't work unfortunately. I wonder if later Roomsters had HIDs as standard and I could swap the whole lamps, otherwise I'll look into bulb upgrades again and check the beam angles. It was set up at MOT so should be right but I now think it looks a bit cross-eyed. Drove the Mini after dark tonight (which has halogens and is a couple of years older) and it's vastly better, so it's not just me!

Thanks again

Stuart

In you opening post / question you describe how good the Roomster was seats down and fully laden.

Could it be the vehicle was heavily laden at the rear causing the headlamps to point skywards and not at the road?

Do the headlamps work any better when the vehicle is unladen?

I know some vehicles have manual (dashboard) adjusters to compensate for heavy loads, some don't though. No idea if the Roomster has this sort of feature?

Thanks Nick, that's a great thought. I think there may be a small effect of the load as you say but even unladen the situation does not improve much (if at all, hard to tell exactly but the lights are still not good).

There is a manual adjuster on the dashboard which raises and lowers the dipped beam position over a small range, but this is already on the highest setting. There are manual adjusters on the lights and checking the alignment will be my next port of call, once I can find a large enough flat area!

quote:

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Originally posted by Stuart Walker
OK, thanks as always both of you. I think perhaps the oldish posts I had read on Skoda forum and elsewhere underplayed the MOT issue with new retrofit HIDs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stuart Walker
Thanks Nick, that's a great thought. I think there may be a small effect of the load as you say but even unladen the situation does not improve much (if at all, hard to tell exactly but the lights are still not good).

There is a manual adjuster on the dashboard which raises and lowers the dipped beam position over a small range, but this is already on the highest setting. There are manual adjusters on the lights and checking the alignment will be my next port of call, once I can find a large enough flat area!

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I've always found the main beam is weak on the roomster as it only uses a shutter to swap between dip/main and is just a single 55w bulb providing both dip and main.
This setup works fine with an additional main beam bulb on other cars, but is not great on it's own.

I have also found focus issues with some brands of bulb, the resultant heat on the shutter causes the metal to corrode/pit and totally messes up the beam pattern. I have disassembled the lamps and repaired this on several cars as a replacement lamp is not cheap. Osram bulbs work fine, and are the oe fit.

The hid roomster lamps are a little better, but still suffer from the main beam not being much brighter than dip.

Ignoring the legal bit, I've not experienced any hid conversions that actually get the bulb correctly aligned with the focal point within the projector lamp (this with mismatched reflector geometry is why they appear to run hot), due to this they are normally dimmer (but whiter) than a decent halogen upgrade bulb in projector dip beam lamps.

There are some philips led conversion bulbs that are approved in germany/austria, but only on a model by model basis, for more info look here: https://www.philips.co.uk/c-e/au/car-lights/headlights/led-bulbs
These philips bulbs have emitter dimensions/placement that matches the oe bulb filament positioning to give a very close to original beam pattern, most led conversion bulbs don't even get close due to the emitters being oversized and incorrectly placed for the purpose.

Dave

Thanks Gremlin, that makes sense on the MOT regs. I was reading older posts than that on Skoda forums to start with. They were corrected for France by the old stick-on reflectors (removed on way back) so that's not it unfortunately. You could be right on the high alignment, I'm inclined to think not because I get decent light just in front of the car, but once I get to my identified flat place (ASDA car park) to check them I'll know for sure.

Thanks for the info Dave, really helpful and glad again it's not just me thinks the Roomster lights are rubbish! Currently using Orsam Nightbreaker bulbs so it sounds like the lights should be performing pretty much as well as they legally can. So I'll check alignment next, and once that's 100% maybe the light units themselves are the problem. I dismantled one previously and remember it was a bit of a sticky mess but if the ASDA alignment session doesn't help I'll look into that.

Thanks all, stay tuned for an exciting update (unless my DVLA letter comes and I can drive the Locost, then sod it)...

Would be interesting to see if someone else has put HIDs in previously and buggered the reflectors.

The "per application approved" ones above are almost identical to my ones in my reflector type H4s, they put the full beam "filament" a little closer to the reflector than the stock bulb but the main beam is almost perfect - beam pattern (checked with camera with fixed exposure on a white wall) is pretty much identical. I tried some of the cheaper block-of-cobs type H4 replacements previously and they were dire, I didn't even take the car off the drive because they caused so much glare up the wall.

Projectors are so much more sensitive again, over the reflector types, that it's even harder to get a decent beam pattern.

The real problem is the fact that the whole world is in a "lumens race" - when all cars had poorer light output, everyone went slower and lower light output didn't compromise vision as your eyes adjusted. Then someone came along with crazy light output headlights (probably BMW I suspect) and the world started competing, never stopping to ask if it should. Bikes started having to use super high power halogens and then LEDs to even be noticed over the oncoming headlights, if you're in a queue of cars and you're the only one with old reflector halogens you basically can't see a damn thing because your vision is trashed by everyone elses brightness.

I could happily see twice as far as I took to stop in my old Celica, at night, with 55W halogen reflectors. These days, I can't see a damn thing in the same damn car because of the flood of other high brightness lights.

[Edited on 8/9/22 by coyoteboy]

Exactly - and with perhaps slightly less than brilliant lights to start with, once there's a BMW or a Range Rover coming the other way we've got no chance of seeing anything!

Anyway, in the absence of DVLA letter I did the ASDA car park testing last night. Quite revealing: The nearside is working well - beam cut off is good, adjuster works well and alignment is good. The offside is less good, without a distinct cut off on dip but weaker in general, and appears to be misaligned but difficult to check properly due to the other problems. I'm also not sure that the adjustment motor is moving the offside light. So this will now be the focus (haha) of my attention, I'll open it up but prepared that it might be time for a new light unit.

Thanks again

It may sound daft, but is the bulb in its holder properly? When I first changed a dipped beam bulb on my Zafira (you have to fish about, by touch, through a small hatch in the inner wheel-arch cover), I got the bulb in rotated to the wrong position. That messed up the beam totally.

[Edited on 9/9/22 by SteveWalker]

Thanks Steve, good idea and they are certainly now in straight. I think I've found the problem - nothing more exciting than a combination of a design which is only just OK when working properly and a worn headlight casing. I got and fitted some LED bulbs for interest and found that the beam pattern on the drivers' side does have a better cut off with a brighter bulb, and the adjusters do work. It's still weak compared to the passenger side but I think this suggests the internals are probably OK. I think it's just down to the plastic casing being slightly faded which is diffusing the beam on that side (this headlight has been replaced in the past, so a different age to the other side). I rubbed it down with some 1200 and polished it and it's better, so I either need to keep going down that route or replace the casing.

Boring solution but there we go. Thanks for all the suggestions. Now to resend my V5C application for the Locost because the original one hasn't reached DVLA