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E10 Petrol problem
JAG - 30/8/23 at 09:47 AM

So this last weekend my Petrol engined Lawnmower started to cut-out.

It happened after 2-5 minutes of running and would restart immediately but ONLY if you gave the carburettor priming Bulb a couple of pumps.

Clearly a fuel problem so I removed the carburettor and took the fuel bowl apart.

The Float and Needle Valve all seemed fine BUT there was a Yellow/White jelly-like substance sitting in the fuel bowl. Some was blocking the main jet as well. Hence the problems with it running and cutting out.

I cleaned it out and the Lawnmower restarted and ran for 30+ minutes without any issue.

While I was mowing the lawn I was musing on where the Yellow/White jelly-like stuff had come from.

It finally dawned on me. It's a Chinese made engine from 2005'ish so the fuel pipe is probably not compatible with modern E10 petrol!

I had some off-cuts of E10 compatible fuel pipe lying about because I'd recently replaced the fuel pipes on the Locost for this very reason.

Swapped the fuel pipe on the Lawnmower - now we wait

nick205 - 30/8/23 at 10:39 AM

Interesting to read.

My sister runs a garden machinery business. A growing number of their service calls and workshop repairs are pretty much what you describe. Pre E10 engine mowers and ride on mowers that have years left in them, but with fuel systems that get gummed up with sludgey/gooey fuel (particularly when they've been sat idle for a few weeks/months).

[Edited on 31/8/23 by nick205]

coyoteboy - 30/8/23 at 10:58 AM

I'm not sure what the jelly would be if it was E10 - water in E10 separates the ethanol out into an immiscible pair of fluids. Are we thinking that if it sits around with low water concentration it forms a half-way jelly? OR are we thinking the ethanol is dissolving your tank? Technically you're not meant to leave fuel in a tank for more than a few months anyway, but the simple answer would be to just buy premium instead of cheapo because it's E5 - E5 that we've been using for about 2 decades.

[Edited on 30/8/2023 by coyoteboy]

Mr Whippy - 30/8/23 at 11:53 AM

When storing your mower etc it's good practice to turn the fuel off and let it run dry so there's no fuel in the carb to go bad and to drain the fuel tank over the winter as mold and such things like to live in it. Not sure what the slimy stuff was though, seen lots of nasty's in fuel.

nick205 - 30/8/23 at 12:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
When storing your mower etc it's good practice to turn the fuel off and let it run dry so there's no fuel in the carb to go bad and to drain the fuel tank over the winter as mold and such things like to live in it. Not sure what the slimy stuff was though, seen lots of nasty's in fuel.



Certainly "it's good practice to turn the fuel off and let it run dry so there's no fuel in the carb to go bad and to drain the fuel tank over the winter", but very very few people do that (even if they know it's good practice). Mower in the shed when the grass stops growing and then they get it back out in the spring and expect it just to start/run.

Maybe there's something to be said for electric mowers

adithorp - 30/8/23 at 05:17 PM

I thought the general advice for carb'ed garden equipment was to run them on super as that's still E5.
AIUI E10 will affect any diaphragms and gaskets in the carb as well as hoses but also doesn't atomise as well from the jets.

coyoteboy - 30/8/23 at 06:27 PM

Ethanol has a lower boiling point than petrol, not sure why it would vapourise worse?

adithorp - 30/8/23 at 06:56 PM

Just something I read but could be mis-remembering. I don't have anything that'd be affected so never looked any further into it.

coyoteboy - 30/8/23 at 07:00 PM

Now I'm curious!

Simon - 30/8/23 at 10:00 PM

You might find this interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ge2PZIX1oM

nick205 - 31/8/23 at 09:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
You might find this interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ge2PZIX1oM



Interesting (for E10), BUT as he quite rightly highlights - it can vary by location, season, supplier and so on!

Curious now about E5 and what the variation in that might be.

gremlin1234 - 31/8/23 at 12:38 PM

I would have said: get esso synergy+, but unfortunately they are stopping that being ethanol free.

craig1410 - 31/8/23 at 05:21 PM

For our garden machinery, I buy super unleaded in a large steel jerry can and immediately add a fuel stabiliser. This fuel is used for our mower, leaf blower and generator. I also use this fuel along with 2-stroke oil for our strimmer. So far so good.

coyoteboy - 4/9/23 at 09:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
For our garden machinery, I buy super unleaded in a large steel jerry can and immediately add a fuel stabiliser. This fuel is used for our mower, leaf blower and generator. I also use this fuel along with 2-stroke oil for our strimmer. So far so good.


I wonder what the negatives of it are, that means it's not in all fuel. Unless it's just cost for the average car driver that isn't needed.

I just run mine dry, it solves the problem, but fuel stab won't help if ethanol IS actually causing damage rather than just degrading itself.

E10 has been in use across Europe for a LONG time now, I've spoken to a lot of my European friends here and none of them have heard of any problems with it. It seems odd that our continental brethren have no issues but the UK falls apart. Of course you can search forums and find some cases of people moaning it's a problem, but you can also count the number of people with common sense and an ability to accurately diagnose their problem on one hand also.

Mr Whippy - 4/9/23 at 11:51 AM

I think a lot of the complaints about E10 are really due to that a part was about to fail anyway (possibly cos it was a cheap Chinese part) and people just jumping to the conclusion it's all due to the evil fuel.

craig1410 - 4/9/23 at 06:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
For our garden machinery, I buy super unleaded in a large steel jerry can and immediately add a fuel stabiliser. This fuel is used for our mower, leaf blower and generator. I also use this fuel along with 2-stroke oil for our strimmer. So far so good.


I wonder what the negatives of it are, that means it's not in all fuel. Unless it's just cost for the average car driver that isn't needed.

I just run mine dry, it solves the problem, but fuel stab won't help if ethanol IS actually causing damage rather than just degrading itself.

E10 has been in use across Europe for a LONG time now, I've spoken to a lot of my European friends here and none of them have heard of any problems with it. It seems odd that our continental brethren have no issues but the UK falls apart. Of course you can search forums and find some cases of people moaning it's a problem, but you can also count the number of people with common sense and an ability to accurately diagnose their problem on one hand also.


I use fuel stabiliser just to ensure the fuel doesn’t go off while still in the jerry can. I did this before E10 was brought in for standard unleaded, but of course super unleaded is still E5 and is what I need to use on my Rover V8 engine anyway. I will also run the garden machinery dry before putting it away for the winter but like I said, the fuel in the jerry can and generator and locost tend to fair better with stabiliser. Unstabilised petrol can start to go off after just a few months and E10 is worse than E5 in that regard.

Dingz - 4/9/23 at 08:15 PM

A friend who worked repairing mowers, strimmers etc now only uses fuel made by Aspen, 4 and 2 stroke. Apparently you can leave fuel in them overwinter and they don’t deteriorate, no ethylene in them. Expensive though but if you don’t have to spend a couple of hours in the spring swearing at the mower it may be worth it!

James - 11/9/23 at 09:44 AM

Gotta say, about a year ago we bit the bullet and went electric after an idea from my pro gardener BiL.

After a bit of investigation and some trials down at the local garden machinery centre we went with this:

https://egopowerplus.com/power-mowers/

I wanted a 21" to match our current mower but only the 19" had the roller attachment so we went 19" in the end.

Gotta say- it's absolutely brilliant! Quick, quiet, lightweight, our 10m x 30m lawn is done on about half a 5Ah battery charge.

It was so good we bought a bare-body strimmer to use the same battery. That does the strimming using about 1 bar (out of 5) on the battery so more than enough to then mow as well.

The mower even has... headlights!



Cheers!
James

craig1410 - 13/9/23 at 10:58 PM

I'm all for electric @James but we've got 1200sqm of grass here and although our Worx Landroid manages to cope most of the time, in times of variable weather (ie. sun, rain, sun, rain etc) the grass can grow past the point where the Landroid can cope. In those times, with somewhat soggy, long grass, a decent petrol mower is essential. Even the 4.5HP petrol mower is stalled if you go too fast through 4" wet grass. No way an electric mower would cope.

We used to have a Ryobi electric mower before we moved house but it was certainly not up to the job here. We still have the Ryobi strimmer which uses the same batteries and can do most of our edging with two batteries.