Hi everyone, I have for as long as I can remember, wanted to build a kit car, and have recently been doing a lot of reading into it. I have read numerous build blogs and also an MK Indy build manual.

The problem I am having, is I want a kit I can put together, without needing to source places to do extra modification, and from reading the MK build blogs and build manual, it seems this isnt going to be the kit for me, as although MK do some of the modifications needed like the prop etc. but from reading the build manual it seems there are further modifications needed to the engine itself, namely shortening the sump and couple other bits. Its these things that are putting me off, as I dont have the right contacts to do them for me. It also seemed reading the blogs that there are lots of other little bits that would need making along the way, and this for me, as my first build, isnt for me, as I feel I will end up spending a lot on having these extras done.

Therefore I am now looking at other options. I have seen the Great British Sports Car Zero, which seems to be rather cheap considering you can buy it as a comeplete kit? Though I realise these used to be Robin Hood, and that when they were Robin Hood they didnt have the best reputation, is this still the case? Are there any other options I have other than the obvious Westfield and Caterham that I can buy as a complete kit? With any of these complete kits, will I still need to have things modified, or will I then 'simply' have to build it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

GBS have a very different ethos to Robin Hood as was and the Zero has been built by many into a very good car.
It is very similar to any spaceframe 7 and as such the quality is what you as the builder make it.
Good value for the money.
I would caution you that no car available is a true bolt together option except for perhaps a Westfield or a and you pay for the privilege.
The first build is always more difficult in your mind than in
reality, it would be well worth joining a local kit car club
for real practical help and advice.
Put you location in your profile so people can see roughly where you are, go and have a look at peoples cars and get to the kit car shows next year.

[Edited on 31/12/10 by snapper]

I can't comment on the absolute easiest other than a Westy or Caterham is a bit like Ikea furniture which sounds like what you want.

There isn't and hasn't been a Robin Hood/GBSC that is a complete kit and requires just building. The complete kit claim for a few manufacturers is a bit misleading in my opinion.

It's a time vs skill vs cost thing. If you spend sh1t loads on a Caterham or Westy then great, it'll fly together in a few days probably and you'll have a car but an empty wallet.

If you bought an MK for instance then you could build what you're capable of doing, get the prop done professionally, buy a shortened sump or get it done professionally ( contacts for anything you need can be found on here) etc etc. This way you'd have a nice car that took longer to build but you will have lot of money left over even after paying for the bit's to be done that you can't manage and buying proper tools like a welder etc. You'd also learn a hell of a lot more along the way which will set you up for the next one.

ATB
Stott

This may sound crazy but have you thought about an already built registered car and tearing it apart as soon as you get it, I would want to do this any way to check its all safe and you can modify stuff the way you want it as you go along.

No need to iva
Better value for money
Got all the bits that fit together already
Satisfaction that you have built yourself.

Something to think about mate.

Oh and welcome...

Cheers

Rich

You can buy a complete kit for a GKD legend 4 and build with a 140bhp 1.9.

Thank you for all the replies!

RichardK - That is actually something I am considering, so not a crazy idea.

Stott - I see what your saying, but from what I have gathered so far, to build a GOOD MK will cost me £8k-10k, and this will still be using parts from an old sierra, where as for an £13k I can buy a complete Caterham kit which is all new parts, the extra then seems worth it, especially as it removes the hassle factor of getting bits modified.

Franky - I have looked at GKD, but again, the price makes me think I might be better spending the extra on a caterham.



I think you have all answered my question very quickly, which is, for me, I need to either stump up the cash for a Caterham or Westfield ( I live 10minutes from Westfields factory so its very tempting to buy one of these) or buy a second hand one and strip it down.

mnr are a good option also! they can be bought as a complete kit i think, with engine cradle/mounts for your install. in on my fist build and its going ok at the moment. the only mods i have had to do is to shorten prop shaft which is the same with any car, and to modfy drive shafts to suit my honda diff. everything else has just bolted together fine!

As said, if you simply want an Airfix style kit then pay ££ for a Westfield or Carteraham.

Nevertheless I dont think you are any different from the majority as they start out with doubts and lack of confidence about their ability and concerns about what you get "in the box"

Unless you don't know one end of a screwdriver from the other, or want to complete in a fortnight then you'll find that most of the 7 style kits are about as complete as they can be and MK are as good if not better than some as far as modding the parts and helping you generally.

Putting mine together certainly did'nt need welding, turning or painting equipment at home.

Also as you've found this site, this is about as much help as you could get for anything in one place on the whole interweb.

Good luck

Where abouts are you?

Fair enough, if it came down to 3K difference I'd buy a Caterham too. Even better if it's on a new plate at that price.

TBH if I had the dough there would be one sat in my garage now.

Stott - Thats my thinking also, though if it comes down to that, I will probably buy a second hand built car.

Tomgregory - I am near Birmingham, have updated my profile now.

Daniel - Thanks, will have a look at MNR

ReMan - My concern is that by the time I have finished buying all the extra bits and paying for the modifications required to the engine, that I will be so close to the cost of a caterham/westfield, that I should have just gone that route for simiplicity and with westfield being so close, a helping hand nearby. I understand from the hellfire blog that MK are very helpful, but they are so far away from me, it wouldnt be easy for me to make use of their services during the build.

aries motorsport do a nice car.i am building a locoblade at the minute.you dont have to fabricate anything steve does it all for you.you can buy the parts as and when you can afford it,and steve will source all the donor parts that you may require.he will even build a car for you i suppose if you asked him to.any problems you may have he will try to sort straight away.

forgot to say you can buy the whole kit in one go if you want as steve has recently shipped a full kit out to portugal.look up happyblade the build diary on google

If you take into account , saleability and depreciation , Caterham is the only sensible option at your price point, well made and developed cars with good old Lotus pedigree. Resale value excellent ,depreciation very low.



Westfield just a production version of a Locost really , not the same league as Caterham ( a cart horse compared to Caterhams racehorse!!) , latest production version recently completely slated on Fifth Gear by Jason Plato , quite rightly too it was dire. resale value not good .

I live just near Birmingham too so my first consideration was the Westfield because of how close the factory was but unfortunately I was too impatient and too eager to get driving one I brought one already built (Tiger Avon). My advice as a Noobie too is to come down to the South Brum get together in Redditch and come and have a look at some of the cars and have a chat to some people who have built them. I havent been yet so im planning on going in Feb/March when my car is back on the road. The biggest thing that put me off building one was getting to a point where I was well in over my head and had no idea what has gone wrong... I have 0 mechanical knowledge really so it was my confidence that stopped me so I can relate, but after being on this forum a while I could say that there is enough people on here that have more than likely had alot worse problems and managed to solve them from asking the question on here.

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Originally posted by Surrey Dave
If you take into account , saleability and depreciation , Caterham is the only sensible option at your price point, well made and developed cars with good old Lotus pedigree. Resale value excellent ,depreciation very low.



Westfield just a production version of a Locost really , not the same league as Caterham ( a cart horse compared to Caterhams racehorse!!) , latest production version recently completely slated on Fifth Gear by Jason Plato , quite rightly too it was dire. resale value not good .

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Let's be realistic here, buying one of the Caterham kits may be a (much) greater initial outlay of cash, but you know EXACTLY what your car is going to cost, you'll built it in a fortnight, all the parts are there (AND WILL FIT), it will look superb, it has very healthy resale value, and it will handle straight out of the box (assuming you've followed the build manual!). Sure, the engine choice may be a little bit dull, but straight-line speed is not what it's all about!

The MK's, etc. of this world catch your eye on initial price, but there will need to be a bit of fiddling to get the parts to fit, you still have plenty of bits to source, build instructions are not so hot, it will take the uninitiated a fair while to build it, and it is unlikely to handle straight out of the box. Whatever you think it will cost - it won't! It could easily end up costing as much as that Caterham or EVEN MORE! Yes, it'll go like stink in a straight line if you fit the latest Itchyfanny 1400RR bike engine, but it will only go round corners if you know how to set-cars up... if not, that'll cost you more still! And then there's the re-sale value - a complete and utter unknown!

Caterhams and to some degree westfields might hold their money but they cost so much more that it almost negates the depreciation.

A well the 5th gear westfield was 28k!!! now thats going to loose at least 10k straight away. A R500 with a few options is 45+k. Look how many are for sale for about £28k, thats 18k down the pan.

When I did loads of research its a bit of a misconception to a point. If you want safe money buy a caterham for about 8k. It'll be old and a poverty spec but you won't loose much money.

Hello!

I was on the same boat, kind of. No mechanical knowledge, having to build on an open parking space on the building's parking lot, so couldn't weld or do strange fabrications. Besides, finding parts in Portugal is not as easy as in the UK because we don't have the wonderful specialist market you have.

I went to Stoneleigh to check cars and talk with people about having a "car in a box" shipped to Portugal. I also visited Aries because they were not going to be on Stoneleigh. I had several things I wanted on the car, one of them being a bike engine and a reverse box, which means the car would be a bit more expensive than with a car engine.

I bought an Aries Locoblade from Aries Motorsport. If you check my build diary, that chesney321 already mentioned, you'll see that I bought a box with everything needed (except tools). The bike engine came with the car, already with a proper sump and reinforced clutch plate. And all used parts were refurbished and painted.
And everytime I have had doubts about things, I emailed Steve Huckerby from Aries (phone calls to the UK are expensive) and he replied with proper instructions and sometimes even photos on the following 24h. The fact that the Locoblade has no build manual is no issue since between Steve, Chris Gibbs' book and this forum, there is not much more you'll need.
And Steve will help you out going through IVA to get the car on the road.

I should mention that the runner up to Aries was MNR. I liked their kit more than MK, they were nicer and they replied to my emails.

A last note... Buying a kit in a box means you'll spend more money than buying some parts and then hunting the market for the rest. You may find cheaper seats or wheels or tires or whatever from a different vendor. But that will mean hunting around and the risk of buying something that may not be the best. It's a trade-off.

I wish you the best on your decision! Have fun and a great 2011!
HappyFather

Sure Franky, but you're looking at the Top-Dogs in the range! You can get a new Classic Kit for £13.5k upwards!

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Originally posted by scootz
Sure Franky, but you're looking at the Top-Dogs in the range! You can get a new Classic Kit for £13.5k upwards!

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Franky, how much less though? From what I have read, your talking maybe £3k less? For me, thats not worth it.

HappyFather, yours sounds a very interesting option. Do you mind me asking how much the full kit cost?

A basic mk/mnr/gkd/ etc etc would be about 5k less. For less than 13.5k you can build a car with a huge spec.

quote:

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Originally posted by theduck
HappyFather, yours sounds a very interesting option. Do you mind me asking how much the full kit cost?

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Ive seen some very nice car engined MK's MNR's and Mac 1's etc on here and at shows, built for as little £5000 for a basic car,up to around £8000 for the top spec car, for example I know you could build MK Indy with a brand new 130bhp 2litre Zetec engine, for around £6500. Its also worth remembering the Caterham kit at £13500 is a very basic car, add a £1000+ for a screen and weather gear, another £300 for a heater and demisters, its only a asthmatic 1400cc and 105bhp engine, add another £1000 if you want a little less asthmatic 1600cc and 120bhp, another £1000 for a LSD, so your £13500 can soon turn into £17000+
Don't get me wrong, I think both Caterhams and Westfields are great cars, if you have the money, they have good residuals, but so do all the other buget Sevens, your £6500 Zetec Indy or Mac1 or MNR for example, Ive no doubt you could run it a couple of years,then sell it, and still get your money back, now thats value for money motoring.
But I would say the main advantage of building a buget type seven, is you can decide on the spec, you have more control on the costs, the way it looks, its your car, individuality, each car says something about its builder, unlike the Caterham kits, but like everthing, you pays your money and makes your choice.

Built 2 MKs and yes there is some fiddling but nothing major, MK can supply everything for the build including engine and ECU for the 160 bhp zetec set up. As Paul F says you can build a good spec MK for £6500 and it will hold its price. Caterhams and Westfields are nice cars and a good spec but when youve seen one you've seen em all IMO. Good thing about MK, MNR, GBS Locost and other home builds is you can make your car as Unique as fast as you want it. More chance of individuality with one of the 7 Clones.

Save yourself a load of grief and buy my MNR

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=145138

Ok, this is sounding better again... So if, for example, I bought a 1989 2.0 DOHC Sierra as a donor, how much on top of the cost of the donor car would you expect it to cost me to build the car? Allowing for all new consumables, so pads, discs, belts etc. Any servicing level of work I am confident with, so thats not an issue, its just the modifying of parts that has/had me worried, and the additional costs because of them.

If you have the money to afford it, judging by your posts, Westfield is what you want!

Eddie, if I had the budget now for a Westy, I'd have bought a westy. As I dont, I am looking at my other options, but obviously comparing to the simple/easy options and working out if its worth delaying my build longer.

I bought a Tiger Avon already built with a 2lt zetec in it for under 5K. It did need some odd jobs doing, but I learnt a lot. I never fancied building one until I bought this one!

Now I have bought a Tiger Avon chassis, a sierra 2ltr dohc (which I will break next week) + other parts I have gathered over the last few months. I intend to start builing straight after the sierra is stripped.

My advice would be to buy one already built and you will learn a lot. Then maybe you could build one by sourcing parts yourself as this adds to the fun and you can build it the way you want it!!

Neil

Depending which engine you fit, there may not be a lot to modify. Most manufacturers will do all the necessary modifications required on the propshaft, steering column, steering rack and uprights etc as part of the kit. If you stick with a standard engine that others have fitted, then the chances are that most people on here will have done the modification you need to do and will be able to advise what is required and the best/cheapest way to get it done. It's all part of the fun when building a kitcar.

When you've finished building it you may have spent 10K but it will probably outperform a Caterham costing 3-4 times more.

BTW, what engine are you thinking of fitting? Ever considered a bike engine?

Phil

Want to do a straigh single donor sierra first, so the sierra 2ltr. Then once I've got used to that/want to upgrade who knows...

Building a kit car always starts out with the following:

1. You see a Caterham or original Lotus 7 somewhere, either in pics or in person
2. You get excited when you find out you can buy a "kit" and build it for cheaper than a fully built one, and you can choose the spec, AND it will go faster and handle better than ANYTHING

Ends up as: (my own experience only)

3. You find out how much it will really cost, and go with MK or whatever, thinking you're saving money
4. Order the clone kit, find out you have to think a bit and buy a lot of stuff for it you didn't plan on.
5. You learn a lot. A LOT; things you can't learn in any course you could take at the local college.
6. You spend a lot more than you planned originally.
7. Regret spending what you did, and think it will never work. And why didn't you listen to SWMBO?
8. Get some proper helpers/moan on here, and let them encourage you to finish.
9. Accept the costs and the frustration, and realise you BUILT YOUR OWN CAR and the rest is forgotten.

You don't get much out of things if you know everything in advance. I wouldn't want to do a bolt together car anymore (not that there''s anything WRONG with the Cateringvans and Westies), and I started out pretty useless. Now I can't wait to go modify what I've done already!


ps. your kit maker and people on here know everything you will ever want to know about these cars, so don't be afraid of being in the dark - you won't be for long.

[Edited on 2/1/11 by RK]

quote:

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Originally posted by RK
Building a kit car always starts out with the following:

1. You see a Caterham or original Lotus 7 somewhere, either in pics or in person
2. You get excited when you find out you can buy a "kit" and build it for cheaper than a fully built one, and you can choose the spec, AND it will go faster and handle better than ANYTHING

Ends up as: (my own experience only)

3. You find out how much it will really cost, and go with MK or whatever, thinking you're saving money
4. Order the clone kit, find out you have to think a bit and buy a lot of stuff for it you didn't plan on.
5. You learn a lot. A LOT; things you can't learn in any course you could take at the local college.
6. You spend a lot more than you planned originally.
7. Regret spending what you did, and think it will never work. And why didn't you listen to SWMBO?
8. Get some proper helpers/moan on here, and let them encourage you to finish.
9. Accept the costs and the frustration, and realise you BUILT YOUR OWN CAR and the rest is forgotten.

You don't get much out of things if you know everything in advance. I wouldn't want to do a bolt together car anymore (not that there''s anything WRONG with the Cateringvans and Westies), and I started out pretty useless. Now I can't wait to go modify what I've done already!


ps. your kit maker and people on here know everything you will ever want to know about these cars, so don't be afraid of being in the dark - you won't be for long.

[Edited on 2/1/11 by RK]

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You can also think about getting a more modern donor car too. Focus/BMW e36-46/Mx5/S2000

RK - About right up to the stage I am at, although I first saw a Westfield (As I said, I am very local to their factory) when I was about 7, and was told then that it was a kit, and loved the idea ever since. I then went out in a Caterham round Milbrook in the summer, and then I was well and truly hooked!


Franky - Am looking at going with the Sierra first as it gives me an all in one donor and 'should' go back together without too many problems. Also it means that in the future when I upgrade the engine, I have all the bits that I would be looking to use, as I have already been recommended using Sierra gearbox for future builds. I have excellent contacts in the world of motorsport, but they aren't exactly local.

I have been speaking to one of the contacts I do have who is more local to me and found out he is rather handy with a welder, so I have someone who can do the bits I cant that is local!


Guess my next step is to get myself to Autosports show in a couple weeks. Depending on getting the time off work, looking like I will be going on the Friday.

quote:

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Originally posted by theduck
So if, for example, I bought a 1989 2.0 DOHC Sierra as a donor, how much on top of the cost of the donor car would you expect it to cost me to build the car? Allowing for all new consumables, so pads, discs, belts etc.

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