Had a few strong words today with one of the sales chaps who insists on writing order quantities like this:

20 No M10 bolts

Where as I and every other engineering minded person in the company would write:

20-Off M10 bolts

I know it’s only a minor thing but it’s causing confusion with my staff and it’s starting to wee me off, is his method acceptable? Is this the norm for some other country or is it a new thing I don’t know about? In all my days it’s only ever been **-Off.

Anyways, whilst chatting to the chap his 19 year old understudy chips in with “it should be OF anyway” in a very patronising manor.
No sweet heart, I think you will find that it’s spelt OFF and always has been!!!

This leads me onto my next question:

Why do we use the word Off to describe quantities???????

Rant over

Answers on a postcard

Cheers

Bye

Thom

good question. often wondered this myself.

'of' would make more sense anyway

It goes back to the days when craftsmen were often illiterate and couldn't/didn't work from drawings. Instead they used patterns made by toolmakers or pattern-makers.

So the foreman would ask for "10 items off that pattern", or "20 off that model".

Yep...always been "off" when I lived in the UK..

Over here in the US they use EA (short for each)...again, seems illogical.

Personally I prefer QTY followed by the number..or QTY as the BOM heading....

So that's clarified things a lot...

I have used both, 20No, is a contraction of twenty number.
Caber

i use times (x),but then again i cant speel

I say take it outside and the one that is standing at the end is right.

Does he does this a lot or is it a 1No ?

Sorry, I meant one off

I read 20 No M10 as 20 number 10. Wood screws are sized Number 10 and Number 8 etc.

20 off is the usual way of writing a quantity but it doesn't make literal sense.

Definitely 20 off in the uk - but on the continent, they struggle with that, so say '20 No'.

confusing i know

"Off" come originally from lathe work --- "parting off" from bar stock.

The word 'off' has 56 distinct meanings according to:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/off

Number 17 is
17. so as to be delineated, divided, or apportioned: Mark it off into equal parts.

The etymology of that form isn't given so it could come from any of the suggestions given so far, or they could be examples of its use, but is undeniably correct and logical if possibly a little old fashioned.

I've come across both "off" and "No" from different people, but always use "off" myself.

Yeah, its 20off where i come from too.
- Certainly that what i use when im ordering timber and materials like that, or a few large parts.
- Then when you get onto a whole load of stuff, or a parts list on a dwg, than its a tabulated BOM, with a heading of QTY.

Ive also used, and seen used the and 'x' or an '*' used.
- And in 20xM10bolt or 20*M10bolt, or even x20 M10bolt.
- But that does get confusing when your then also detailing lenght and pitch of the bolt.

You could end up with 20xM10x25x1.25
- And then see how many times you got 20, 25mm, M10 bolts of the right pitch!



Daniel

i tend to just use a little 's' on the end of the word, to imply plural. Hence 20 bolts.

Works a treat for me

Joel

How would that work with bricks though ?

Up here in Scotland, the plural of brick is brick, not bricks.

e.g "that job will need at least 3000 brick."

For me its

off
or No.
or No:

No is a bit abstract so needs finishing

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Jenkins
It goes back to the days when craftsmen were often illiterate and couldn't/didn't work from drawings. Instead they used patterns made by toolmakers or pattern-makers.

So the foreman would ask for "10 items off that pattern", or "20 off that model".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by balidey
Does he does this a lot or is it a 1No ?

Sorry, I meant one off

---

i'm accustomed to the "off" thing too.. common sense i guess. it sounds much less logical or comprehensible to put the quantity twice like 20 No M10
i'd stick to 20-off M10 or what i always do: 20x M10

never heard the "No" abbreviation

just to throw in another definition...

I was taught that Off refered to 'Off the production line'