That said BEC's will always been more highly strung - but if we wanted a reliable motor i'd just use my tin top
James
hi guys still looking for inspiration, iwatched a couple of videos on youtube and i like the idea of a sequential gear change,but reading about
BEC's i find all the talk about, baffled sumps and rods through block if oil starvation occurs, a bit worrying, could you do sequential change
with "ordinary" car engine, apologies if this sounds dumb but as my mum said "if you dont,ask you dont get"
cheers john
[Edited on 3/2/09 by mastercobbler]
CEC's go wrong too, but there's normally other avenues to research the problems - bike engine's tend to get talked about more because
of the unique problems we encounter with mounting them 90 degrees rotated...
That said BEC's will always been more highly strung - but if we wanted a reliable motor i'd just use my tin top
James
Saw an article in TKC about the gearbox in the westfield 2000 sport and the company that built it, it's a customer made sequential. I forget the name of the company who made it. You can get them, but you're looking at a few thousand quid, plus i hear they need a lot more attention than a BEC/CEC box.
Not a silly question at all, just go to the quaife site and check them out, but they are so wallet shredding that very few go for them.
Quaife make a 6 speed sequential type 9 box. Burton power sell them, but you can probably get them cheaper.
BGH make the boxes for caterham.
David
Just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard.
Many come with different modes like sports or snow and have only 2 pedals to squeeze in. This country is well behind the Americans as far as that side
of things are concerned, why anyone wants to manually change gears & slip clutches is very odd. My cars that have manual boxs are only that way
cos I can't get autos for them 
[Edited on 3/2/09 by Mr Whippy]
Have a look on the Burton Power website at the Quaife sequential gearboxes that replace a type 9. They go for between £4 and £6 grand!
Could buy and break a lot of bike engines for that much!
Go BEC, get the install right and you won't have any problems (says the man who killed two engines with oil starvation problems (but then it was
a learning curve as not many people had put the ZZR in their cars at that point))!
Cheers
Mike
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard
Actually flooring it a good autobox is never out of gear, it’s simply slipping the clutch plates as it changes from one gear to the other so the car
doesn’t stop accelerating or the engine driving the car forward. In that way it’s really not taking any time to change gear since not once is the
drive disconnected unlike a BEC.
[Edited on 3/2/09 by Mr Whippy]
As mentioned above in various posts, a sequential box for a car engine is seriously expensive.
Dont be worried about all the talk of baffled sumps etc. Everyone on this site will no doubt agree that building a car (be it bike or car engined) is
a great learning experience and you will wonder in a year or so's time what you were worried about. Look upon it as a chance to learn something
new - research anything that you dont understand on here and the wider internet etc, and your build will be all the more enjoyable for it.
Lets say you go for a car engine - how much do you currently know about shallow sumps, lightened flywheels, multi-carb setups and aftemarket mappable
ECU's?? Either way you will have a lot to learn, so if you fancy a BEC with sequential change then go for a BEC (just do all the research first -
and go for a ride out in one if you can).
Hi
The gearbox that was mentioned in a westfield was probably the ELITE . However they have proved to
be somewhat unreliable over the last two years. The best option by far is still the Quaife 6 speed sequential version. I am currently just finishing
installing one of these in to a Westfield for a customer up against a Duratec engine.
All in all it is a relatively straight foward conversion ( straight swap for a type 9 supposedly ) but it dose not seem to be a straight swap as we
have had to make a spacer and other mods also. However once installed it is a joy to work smooth operation and no chance of selecting neutral or
reverse by accident as the lift collar works well. As said though very expensive new as you can buy a 6 speed sequential Hewland for less. And theres
not many going for sale second hand.
Cheers Matt
Of course you can just fit a bike engine that is in the car the way the manafacturer intended in the bike (IE isn't 90 degrees out of
alignment)....
like a ST1100
Doesn't need a dry sump either unless you want to run crazily low ride height levels (like I do, hence I'm dry sumping it 
)....
Only 5 sequential gears though....
You could take a look at these;
Elite Racing Transmissions Link
I am sure I can remember Prodrive fitting a controller to a conventional "gated" box to give sequential gear changes. I beleive it was when
Subaru first started rallying.
When the sequential unit failed they were able to revert to conventional gear changes.
Can't be too difficult with a couple of solenoids and a bit of logic.
[Edited on 3/2/09 by richardlee237]
Joao Caldeira is apparently make a sequential adapter for a Type 9 box:
here
Don't know anything about it or how much it is/will be
Hi
The thing you need to remember is that the proper sequential units are DOG boxes IE no syncros. Any of the conversions that just bolt on are using the
STD box with syncros. Which are the weak link on the boxes in the first place.
Cheers Matt
^^^ learning to fit a baffle plate to a bike engine looks a whole lot easier for a beginner to learn!!
Wiring mods are about the hardest bit of a bike engine install in my experience, and thats just a case of following instructions available on the net.
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard
Makes a lot of sense. There's a firm in South Africa that make an electronic controller for modern auto boxes that can be programmed or used to make manual selection.
Manual gearboxes are just so yesterday's technology, it's just a lot of people don't realise it yet. I am reliably informed there are still tin tops being purchased with manual gearboxes! Are the customers mad? Do they actually like having to constantly change gear and work the clutch whether they want to or not?
Manuals should be made illegal, if it's not legal to eat a sandwich while driving I don't see how it can be legal to change gear.
John
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard. Many come with different modes like sports or snow and have only 2 pedals to squeeze in. This country is well behind the Americans as far as that side of things are concerned, why anyone wants to manually change gears & slip clutches is very odd. My cars that have manual boxs are only that way cos I can't get autos for them
[Edited on 3/2/09 by Mr Whippy]
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard
Makes a lot of sense. There's a firm in South Africa that make an electronic controller for modern auto boxes that can be programmed or used to make manual selection.
Manual gearboxes are just so yesterday's technology, it's just a lot of people don't realise it yet. I am reliably informed there are still tin tops being purchased with manual gearboxes! Are the customers mad? Do they actually like having to constantly change gear and work the clutch whether they want to or not?
Manuals should be made illegal, if it's not legal to eat a sandwich while driving I don't see how it can be legal to change gear.
John
I've never driven a manual car that has changed gear mid corner to try to kill me whereas a particularly psychopathic Alfa auto that I once drove hard did attempt to murder me!
GORDON BENNET!
Bike engines are easy to install...
Car engines are easy to install...
Sump baffles are easy to install...
Wiring's dead easy as well (for me)
Whats all the fuss about?
Bike engiens come with sequential and its very cool, but really is it such a big deal to have an H pattern?
The extra speed speed of a CEC surely makes up for the longer change time??
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
GORDON BENNET!
Bike engines are easy to install...
Car engines are easy to install...
Sump baffles are easy to install...
Wiring's dead easy as well (for me)
Whats all the fuss about?
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
just use a rwd automatic car as the donor, their even faster at changing gear than a BEC, last about 5 times longer and have a reverse as standard
Makes a lot of sense. There's a firm in South Africa that make an electronic controller for modern auto boxes that can be programmed or used to make manual selection.
Manual gearboxes are just so yesterday's technology, it's just a lot of people don't realise it yet. I am reliably informed there are still tin tops being purchased with manual gearboxes! Are the customers mad? Do they actually like having to constantly change gear and work the clutch whether they want to or not?
Manuals should be made illegal, if it's not legal to eat a sandwich while driving I don't see how it can be legal to change gear.
John
HAHAHA take a look around!!
cars as a whole are yesturdays technology! theres nothing new about a box full of petrol and crude engines that we drive around in, having to turn the wheel ourselves, and take responsibility for where we go and how fast we get there.
rant over
will
...or just go by train instead (oh dear, we really have digressed again - What a shock!)
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
...or just go by train instead (oh dear, we really have digressed again - What a shock!)
Its no wonder some newbies are put off when it happens
What about the BMW SMG - by definition it is manual as it has a clutch not one of those viscous doo-dahs and torque converter. M3 would be a good donor.