mark.s
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 07:40 PM |
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towing with an A frame
Can anyone tell me if it is legal to tow a kit car with an A frame with no tax or mot, i have had a look on the net and i'm more confused than
when i started 
i have read if its below 750kg which it will be, it is classed as a trailer, so is it happy days or ....
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blakep82
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 07:42 PM |
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lol noooooo
if its got no tax and mot, its wheels mustn't touch the road. and a frames are for recovery only
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 07:52 PM |
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not strictly legal but you would likely get away with it provided you did everything else right like a trailer board and lights etc.
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balidey
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 07:56 PM |
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With no MOT, definitely not.
As for 'recovery only' or 'car becomes classed as a trailer' then those two statements are not strictly true.
The 'evidence' these claims come from are guidelines only. I have yet to find the law that states they are legal or illegal.
Rather than retype, here is what I have previously written...
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=124051
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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mookaloid
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:03 PM |
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How do these motorhomes that tow a smart car behind them on an A frame manage to be legal then?
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Humbug
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
How do these motorhomes that tow a smart car behind them on an A frame manage to be legal then?
Presumably because the Smart has tax and MOT?
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
How do these motorhomes that tow a smart car behind them on an A frame manage to be legal then?
allegedly they are not, but apaprently no one has ever been prosecuted.
It would weight more than 750kgs so needs brakes, but IIRC overrun brakes can only be used on a centre axle trailer.
[Edited on 12/8/10 by JoelP]
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balidey
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
How do these motorhomes that tow a smart car behind them on an A frame manage to be legal then?
They are legal because..... its NOT illegal.
Why is eating chips legal? Because its not illegal etc etc 
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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balidey
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
It would weight more than 750kgs so needs brakes, but IIRC overrun brakes can only be used on a centre axle trailer.
[Edited on 12/8/10 by JoelP]
Nope, if you read my link to previous post above, the requirement for brakes over 750kg is for a TRAILER. A towed car is not a trailer. But the DfT
have issues guidelines saying they believe its a trailer. Two inaccurate points. 1 'we believe' and 2, its a trailer. Its not ,its a car
being towed.
The law needs to change to make it either illegal, or make it clearer that its legal.
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:18 PM |
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well if its a car being towed, then the fact it has no mot would reflect on the driver of that car, and since theres no driver, the only charge i can
think of would be 'driving without due driver'.
Must say though, i would count it as a trailer, simply because there is no driver. And even as a towed car, from a safety aspect it still should be
braked.
But as i said, i wouldnt be bothered myself.
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balidey
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:24 PM |
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I know a few people that use them. my brother in law uses his every day. He has been pulled over several times, even had prohibition orders put on his
van and towed car. Yet every single time he is let off and sent on his way. Why? Because when you start investigating it, there appears to be no law
(and I have looked properly) that states they are illegal, or even a law that states a towed car is classed as a trailer.
So as long as the towed car is MOT'ed taxed and (I think) insured, then it appears they are OK to use for everyday transportation.
But as I have said before, I would love to be proved wrong, so then i can stop looking for the law that says they are illegal.
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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gavin174
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 08:35 PM |
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my parents tow a smart behind behind their motorhome on an A frame
but there is a connection to the smarts brakes..
i believe its an electrical connection to a solenoid on the master cylinder some how.
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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myke pocock
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 09:40 PM |
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Have a look here for trailer regs:- http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
As far as I am aware, when you use an A frame the vehicle that you are towing effectively becomes a trailer and as such requires brakes which are
connected to the braking system of the towing vehicle (but see the regs regarding towing and towed vehicle weights etc) . I used to A frame my Skoda
Estelle trials car but now take it on a trailer. Regarding mobile homes and towing vehicles, if you look at the likes of Brian James, Ifor Williams
etc you will notce that they are now making small trailers specifically for the likes of Smart cars and similar. It was rumoured that plod was getting
very interested in vehicles being towed on the M6 a while back. Where do I live? On the end of the M6
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zilspeed
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| posted on 12/8/10 at 10:34 PM |
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Every thread you will ever read on every forum past present and future on the internet, on this subject, will all have the same content.
It's a car being towed / it's a trailer / 750kg unbraked / auto reverse brakes / recovery / MOT / tax / insurance / blah blah.
A very very very long time ago (let's say 26, 27 years ago) , I went to an evening in a local Ford main dealers being held by a local car club.
There were various competition cars there and we were particularly interested in the autotest mini special.
We asked him how he transported it.
His response.
"Yeah, I used to A frame it, but I got fed up getting pulled by the police. Some said, it was legal, some said they weren't sure, some
reckoned it was illegal but they weren't sure why."
In the end, even though he never actually got a ticket for it, the constant 'attention' was sufficient for him to give it up.
He ended up with a trailer.
To be fair though, if you're towing at all these days, I would expect either the police or, increasingly, VOSA to take an interest in what
you're up to and want to check your whole setup over.
Your call.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 13/8/10 at 06:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
well if its a car being towed, then the fact it has no mot would reflect on the driver of that car, and since theres no driver, the only charge i can
think of would be 'driving without due driver'.
Who would they send the ticket to?
DO10: Driving whilst outside of the vehicle
[Edited on 13/8/10 by Ninehigh]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 13/8/10 at 09:38 AM |
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There are any number of bits of legislation, including C&U that define trailer as:
quote:
"trailer" means a vehicle drawn by a motor vehicle
There are rules for trailers, some of which are specifically exempted when the trailer is a 'broken down vehicle'. e.g. requirements for
approval marks on reflectors:
quote:
(b) A trailer (other than a broken-down motor vehicle) manufactured:
(i) On or after 1st October 1989:
An approval mark incorporating "III" or "IIIA"
So it seems pretty clear that in law, a vehicle towed behind another one is a trailer.
[Edited on 13/8/10 by matt_claydon]
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