ash_hammond
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:18 PM |
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B + E Test Advise.
Hello All,
My Mum has recently purchased a caravan of which I would like to use in the summer.
Since I passed my test after 1997 I have the new FisherPrice license and limited to a train weight of 3500KG. I'm able to pull the MAC#1 as the
training weight is OK.
I've been looking at prices for the test and lessons.
On average a package course and test is £450  .
The price of the test is £115 if booked with the DSA direct.
I see two options:
1. Pay the price and take the lessons and sit the test.
2. Hire a trailer for 1 or 2 days and get some practice with Dad with L plates and then sit the test hopefully being a few ££ in pocket.
I'm looking for peoples experience on this subject.....
How involved is the test?
Does it require lessons?
What option would you choose?
Comments welcome...
-- Ash
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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coozer
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:27 PM |
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How involved is the test?
Does it require lessons?
What option would you choose?
Test is much the same as a Class 1 HGV. Trailer must be an enclosed box.
Go down to your local Vosa test station and watch the test. Reversing, uncoupling/coupling, brake test, then out on the road for an hour. Not
forgetting all the vehicle checks required.
IMO, if you have some extra spare cash do your class 2 then class 1 HGV. Covers all bases and opens up a job opportunity.
When I was training for class1 there was a girl there trying to get her licence for a horse trailer. Her vehicle was a L200 with a twin wheel car size
box trailer. Shame she couldn't get the thing across the yard!
Any of the LGV training places will be able to guide you, they cover the B+E as well as the bigger classes.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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ChrisW
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:27 PM |
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I'd be interested in people's experiences too.
My plan was to 'borrow' a car park/yard/somewhere else, borrow and caravan, get some cones, and just practice practice practice for a few
days beforehand.
As far as I know the bits on the road are just common sense. I'd assumed that if you're used to driving with a car sized trailer on
you'll already do them automatically, so it's just the parking manouvers that worry me!
Chris
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
I'd be interested in people's experiences too.
My plan was to 'borrow' a car park/yard/somewhere else, borrow and caravan, get some cones, and just practice practice practice for a few
days beforehand.
As far as I know the bits on the road are just common sense. I'd assumed that if you're used to driving with a car sized trailer on
you'll already do them automatically, so it's just the parking manouvers that worry me!
Chris
Argeed.
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 12:37 PM |
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Reversing is the only hard bit with trailers and can only be done through practice, I'd personally borrow someone’s and just go round some
borrowed/pinched cones for a few hours in a shopping center car park.
Would probably save a fortune in lesson hours
I use to reverse park bendy busses when drove them, usually outside the shops to get my breakfast  how to pi$$ off car drivers  take up 6 car
spaces at a time
[Edited on 14/2/11 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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coozer
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:15 PM |
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Right chaps, don't underestimate the test. Its full on with Vosa, same as a class 1 hgv and not like your original car tests.
You needs to follow the procedures to get a pass which includes your car test out on the roads again with the trailer. He'll be ticking minors
up as you go along, correct indicators, mirrors, positioning etc, 15 minors and its a fail, run a kerb and its a fail...
Check the reversing exercise's on youtube, have a look at the HGV ones as well as they look a bit clearer. You need to reverse across the yard
and stop in the box with the back of the trailer within the foot wide box, no knocking the barriers over!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW7DHqcO9Sg&feature=related
Not forgetting the uncoupling/coupling, correct trailer checks, lights, hitch height, connections, condition etc.
Do go down the local Vosa test station and see if you can watch a test in action.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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gavin174
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:21 PM |
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I know eddie99 had been looking into this, as he is a young whipper snapper too..
he is under the impression that aslong as the M.A.M of the car and trailer are less than 3.5 tonne
and the MAM of the tow vehicle is higher than the M.A.M of the trailer he can tow on his car licence
I believe the M.A.M of his tow car is 1.6 tonne so aslong as the trailer is plated with a M.A.M of 1.5 tonne or less he is ok.
Is that right.
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:27 PM |
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I have grandad rights on my license so I can tow already but I used to sheet and shunt trailers at a firm I worked for and 40 footers were always
easier than the smaller 28 footers we used to use for smaller loads. You don't see open back trailers any more only on farms now. I have a
trailer and a trailer tent and they are a nightmare to reverse being so short as they react to the slightest input very quickly.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
I know eddie99 had been looking into this, as he is a young whipper snapper too..
he is under the impression that aslong as the M.A.M of the car and trailer are less than 3.5 tonne
and the MAM of the tow vehicle is higher than the M.A.M of the trailer he can tow on his car licence
I believe the M.A.M of his tow car is 1.6 tonne so aslong as the trailer is plated with a M.A.M of 1.5 tonne or less he is ok.
Is that right.
I believe so.
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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eddie99
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:37 PM |
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Figures above are slightly wrong, but basically my car has a MAM of 2 tonnes, and trailer with a mam of 1.35 tonnes, so this is under 3.5 tonnes... I
had a lesson and then they told me i needed so many more hours and it was going to cost an absolute fortune. So for now i have a lucky escape as i
only need to tow a small trailer
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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gavin174
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:44 PM |
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Looks like you were right then Ed.
Best you get your tow electrics sorted
and find a farm with a big car park you can practise in!!
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eddie99
Figures above are slightly wrong, but basically my car has a MAM of 2 tonnes, and trailer with a mam of 1.35 tonnes, so this is under 3.5 tonnes... I
had a lesson and then they told me i needed so many more hours and it was going to cost an absolute fortune.
Thats what i was told when i enquired. Aparently they expect you to drive exactly as you did on your driving test. Hands at 9 and 3, no letting go of
the wheel, no mixing cocktails while you are driving etc. So all the bad habits we all pick up in everyday driving need to be unlearnt which can be
really difficult!
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
I have a trailer and a trailer tent and they are a nightmare to reverse being so short as they react to the slightest input very quickly.
I have a 3' x 4' camping trailer that I use to shift rubbish around... it's an absolute bar-steward to reverse - you can barely see
it, and it flips 1 way then the other with barely a twitch on the steering wheel. When taking stuff to the tip I frequently get out, uncouple it, and
push back to where I want it - it's less embarrassing! I'd never pass another test with it.
On the other hand I used a 4-wheel car trailer to take my Locost to its SVA - big, long, heavy - and an absolute dream to reverse and manoeuvre. The
only thing I didn't like was the fact that it was a bit wider than my car and I kept being distracted because I could see its wheels in the
mirrors out of the corner of my eye as I drove it along! Plus it felt like I was being tailgated all the time, because the nose of the Locost was a
couple of feet from my rear window...
[Edited on 14/2/11 by David Jenkins]
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ChrisW
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
he is under the impression that aslong as the M.A.M of the car and trailer are less than 3.5 tonne
and the MAM of the tow vehicle is higher than the M.A.M of the trailer he can tow on his car licence
I believe the M.A.M of his tow car is 1.6 tonne so aslong as the trailer is plated with a M.A.M of 1.5 tonne or less he is ok.
As far as I can work out for 'large' trailers on post-1997 licenses:
1. The total weight of car*, trailer and load must be less than 3.5 tonnes
2. The weight of the trailer and load combined musn't exceed the weight of the towing car*
3. The weight of the trailer and load must not exceed the maximum towing weight of the car
*This is the combined weight of the car, passengers, luggage, fuel, etc, not the book weight of the car.
That's the way I interpreted the rules and I work to those guidelines. (Honest officer!) I'd be the first to admit though that the
regulations are not written in the clearest way so it's difficult to work out exactly what they mean.
Chris
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ChrisW
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
I have a trailer and a trailer tent and they are a nightmare to reverse being so short as they react to the slightest input very quickly.
I have a 3' x 4' camping trailer that I use to shift rubbish around... it's an absolute bar-steward to reverse - you can barely see
it, and it flips 1 way then the other with barely a twitch on the steering wheel. When taking stuff to the tip I frequently get out, uncouple it, and
push back to where I want it - it's less embarrassing! I'd never pass another test with it.
On the other hand I used a 4-wheel car trailer to take my Locost to its SVA - big, long, heavy - and an absolute dream to reverse and manoeuvre. The
only thing I didn't like was the fact that it was a bit wider than my car and I kept being distracted because I could see its wheels in the
mirrors out of the corner of my eye as I drove it along! Plus it felt like I was being tailgated all the time, because the nose of the Locost was a
couple of feet from my rear window...
[Edited on 14/2/11 by David Jenkins]
I have exactly the same experience, David. My little camping trailer is a nightmare, but if I have a large transporter or flat bed on the back I can
pull off some incredible feats of reversing. Main problem with the small trailer is that it's so small I can't see it in any of the
mirrors until it's swung to one side, so half the time I have to guess what it's up to or open the boot to see it!
BTW, just been Googling places that do the B+E test. Perhaps if there are a few of us interested in doing the test we could arrange a discount for LB
members.
Chris
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
he is under the impression that aslong as the M.A.M of the car and trailer are less than 3.5 tonne
and the MAM of the tow vehicle is higher than the M.A.M of the trailer he can tow on his car licence
I believe the M.A.M of his tow car is 1.6 tonne so aslong as the trailer is plated with a M.A.M of 1.5 tonne or less he is ok.
As far as I can work out for 'large' trailers on post-1997 licenses:
1. The total weight of car*, trailer and load must be less than 3.5 tonnes
2. The weight of the trailer and load combined musn't exceed the weight of the towing car*
3. The weight of the trailer and load must not exceed the maximum towing weight of the car
*This is the combined weight of the car, passengers, luggage, fuel, etc, not the book weight of the car.
That's the way I interpreted the rules and I work to those guidelines. (Honest officer!) I'd be the first to admit though that the
regulations are not written in the clearest way so it's difficult to work out exactly what they mean.
Chris
Not quite. Gavin174 is spot on. I had it explained to me by a traffic copper when one one of our lads had his van and trailer impounded before
Christmas.
There is a complication to your 1st point which is actually the "plated" MAM (maximum allowable mass) or gvw (in old money) of the
trailer. So even if the trailer is empty but is plated to show 3500kg MAM, it counts as 3500kg.
Make sure you read the MAM on the trailer plate as this is what they look at, not the actual weight.
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eddie99
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:53 PM |
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Yes, the MAM of the trailer has to be less than the unladen weight of the car. The two MAM's put together must be less than 3500kg,
doesn't matter how much you are carrying, its all about the MAM's. Hence the MAM of my trailer only has 1300kg
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 02:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
he is under the impression that aslong as the M.A.M of the car and trailer are less than 3.5 tonne
and the MAM of the tow vehicle is higher than the M.A.M of the trailer he can tow on his car licence
I believe the M.A.M of his tow car is 1.6 tonne so aslong as the trailer is plated with a M.A.M of 1.5 tonne or less he is ok.
As far as I can work out for 'large' trailers on post-1997 licenses:
1. The total weight of car*, trailer and load must be less than 3.5 tonnes
2. The weight of the trailer and load combined musn't exceed the weight of the towing car*
3. The weight of the trailer and load must not exceed the maximum towing weight of the car
*This is the combined weight of the car, passengers, luggage, fuel, etc, not the book weight of the car.
That's the way I interpreted the rules and I work to those guidelines. (Honest officer!) I'd be the first to admit though that the
regulations are not written in the clearest way so it's difficult to work out exactly what they mean.
Chris
Not quite. Gavin174 is spot on. I had it explained to me by a traffic copper when one one of our lads had his van and trailer impounded before
Christmas.
There is a complication to your 1st point which is actually the "plated" MAM (maximum allowable mass) or gvw (in old money) of the
trailer. So even if the trailer is empty but is plated to show 3500kg MAM, it counts as 3500kg.
Make sure you read the MAM on the trailer plate as this is what they look at, not the actual weight.
Agreed.
So my thoughts would be in my case:
MAM of tow car is 1800kg
MAC#1 Weighs 650kg
Plate the trailer so the MAM is 1200Kg
I would have a train weight of 3 metric tonnes, I have 0.5 tonnes spare.
The Police work it out on Car MAM + Trailer MAM. Its what your trailer can possibly carry not what it carrying at that current time.
You can "downgrade" the carrying MAM but not "upgrade" the MAM
Do people agree?
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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eddie99
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 03:05 PM |
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Yes i agree, thats why my chassis plate for trailer will say MAM is 1300kg, when im sure it can carry 2tonnes+
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 14/2/11 at 03:19 PM |
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Yes, I agree.
As I pointed out to the copper, it all seems a bit daft that I could get out of my automatic car and into a manual van towing a large twin-axle
flatbed and head out onto the motorway possibly never having done so ever before whereas the lad who had been driving at least had a Class 2 licence
which although doesn't cover towing, at least shows he is able to drive larger vehicles and loads.
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