Slimy38
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 07:31 PM |
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Steer the car or let the car steer you?
One for the drivers here. When driving (enthusiastically or otherwise) do you correct every single tweak and tremor, or do you deal with the big
inputs and let the car get on with the rest?
The nearest similar situation is when first learning how to ride a motorbike, I was absolutely terrified and gripped the handlebars so tight that I
was permanently affecting the bike. I was actually making it unstable, which increased my fear and kept the circle going. As soon as I learned to
loosen off, the bike just did its thing and it just became so much easier to ride. Does the same apply to a car?
I should mention this is just fast roads for now, so I'm talking manhole covers and roadwork leftovers, rather than the glass smooth tarmac of a
track.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 07:53 PM |
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Just let it do its thing. Just worry when the back end tries to overtake the front!
Trying to avoid potholes etc
[Edited on 23/1/13 by Ben_Copeland]
Ben
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 07:59 PM |
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Sounds like something is wrong the first thing is to check the toe settings front and rear --- toe-out can give very twitchy handling
especially if the rear toe-out.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 08:30 PM |
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Let the car do as it chooses the bulk of the time, just guide it. Far too many people think driving fast requires fast steering inputs all the time.
Good friend of mine drives fast cars but gets it so unstable on corners by twitching left right and centre.
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jps
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 08:40 PM |
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I would think its mainly about confidence, notwithstanding setup can impact on handling. I think is slightly different with a motorbike: the
'gripping tightly' effect probably has far more impact due to the fact that your body movement is controlling the bikes movement rather
than the actual input you are making through the handlebars. If you are terrified and gripping tight your whole body is likely tense and resisting any
lean that the bike makes...
You don't say that you are doing so but I'd think that if you find it necessary to constantly 'correct' the motion of the car
you aren't confident with what it is doing. It will depend whether your car progressively looses grip/slides etc or, without warning it simply
spears off into the undergrowth, but it seems logical that you take some time in a safe environment testing that out (track day?) thereby getting an
understanding of what needs correcting and what doesn't. Of course you can do that on the open road too, but there aren't as many run off
areas....
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 09:59 PM |
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Only time I've had to constantly correct is in my jeep when a bush had gone. Normally a car won't wander that much.
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nick205
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 10:10 PM |
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Driving at any speed should be smooth and predictive. If you need to make sudden inputs the chances are you've misjudged something or are
driving too fast for the conditions....IMHO
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Only time I've had to constantly correct is in my jeep when a bush had gone. Normally a car won't wander that much.
My CJ7 Jeep Wrangler had the directional stability of a frightened rabbit, worn bushes or not.
Despite that, a well set up chassis on a decent road surface shouldn't need constant steering input.
Rules are for the guidance of wise men ... and the obedience of fools. (anon)
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chillis
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 10:53 PM |
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Either there is a problem/setup issue making the car very nervous/twitchy or you are nervous/twitchy behind the wheel which would suggest you are
uncomfortable with the way the car handles. To drive fast you must be relaxed (relatively speaking) and for that you must have confidence in both
yourself and the car. If your lack of confidence comes from a car that doesn't handle the way you would like then investigate what can be done
to set the car up more to your preference. If your lack of confidence comes from perhaps lack of experience driving cars fast then you may want to
look at off road driving skills events aimed at improving your fast safe driving skills.
You should feel 'at home' in a car that handles well and as you like it to. Then you don't have to worry what the car is doing as
it'll be doing exactly what you expect, then you're free to get on with the job of driving - FAST 
Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!
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martyn1137
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| posted on 23/1/13 at 11:03 PM |
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Provided there is nothing amiss with the vehicle relax and let it deal with the minor issues. The risk is you will be constantly correcting your over
corrections otherwise.
Try not to react to features right in front of you, look further down the road and think ahead.
From my experience in anything from simple autotests to hillclimbing a few years back if I fought the car it would feel quick but be slow. A more calm
and measured approach was always surprisingly quicker.
Find a youtube in car bit of footage of a good rally driver maybe from a few years back before 4 wheel drive. Someone like Ari Vatenen, Stig Blomquist
or the like. The car is bucking ans sliding all over the place but the steering and pedal input is minimal in comparison.
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rf900rush
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 08:30 AM |
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My old Range Rover removed all the fast inputs, all by it's self
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 08:54 AM |
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Some really good pointers there, thank you all. I think the overall 'nervousness' behind the wheel is the first issue I need to sort out.
It doesn't help that I had a relatively minor bump a while back, but it was in a situation that I would not have anticipated (a normally very
understeering front wheel drive car suddenly oversteering on a bend).
I do need to get the car checked over though, I knew it was a bad idea getting the toe checked by Halfords! Once I've had it looked at by a
competent mechanic I might have a bit more trust that things are ok and I can start relaxing a bit.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 10:41 AM |
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I agree with the bike riding info. I have ridden most of my life and I found the more I let the bike 'have it's head' the more
confident I became. As long as you are sensible and keep control and avoid potholes etc. it will feel much more stable.
With regards to the car, my Locost has given me 'moments' when using some of my local roads as there are a few potholes smack in the
middle of bends etc. But as long as I know they are there, avoid when I can and most importantly am ready for it I find that my driving has become
less tense as time goes on. I have no idea whether my setup is good or bad, but I am reasonably happy with the way she handles for my driving
abilities.
I think the best advice which has been given here is to try and relax and do not fight the car unless as said, the car tries to swap ends.
I'm no expert but HTH 
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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Benzo
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 12:46 PM |
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Is this your 7 that is doing this? Do you have your car set very low by chance?
[Edited on 24/1/13 by Benzo]
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Benzo
Is this your 7 that is doing this? Do you have your car set very low by chance?
[Edited on 24/1/13 by Benzo]
No, this is my daily driver tintop SEAT Toledo, everything is standard.
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macc man
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 02:17 PM |
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My BMW roadcar was extremely twitchy and dived about all over the road. When I had the front tracking checked it was bang on level. I had it adjusted
half a degree toe in and it transformed the car. Fist thing I would check on your car.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 02:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by macc man
My BMW roadcar was extremely twitchy and dived about all over the road. When I had the front tracking checked it was bang on level. I had it adjusted
half a degree toe in and it transformed the car. Fist thing I would check on your car.
Good suggestion, I'll try that. For five minutes with a spanner it's definitely worth a go. I know that Halfords were aiming for a zero
toe.
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jps
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 04:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by martyn1137
If I fought the car it would feel quick but be slow. A more calm and measured approach was always surprisingly quicker.
Have a go in a cheap/nasty indoor go-kart and this becomes immediately apparent - bascially because to drive a go-kart round a typical warehouse track
in the quickest time you adopt a very different driving style to a car on the road as you need to carry momentum much more. I do it myself every time
I go - first few laps it's like i'm trying to strangle the thing, because i'm throwing it into corners hard, oversteering and using
the brakes far too much. After the initial adrenaline rush has worn off I start driving more smoothly, drifting through the corners much more, gaining
the confidence to clip the barriers on the exit of corners, barely touching the brakes and providing far less steering input. Result is always the
same: quicker lap times.
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Peteff
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 06:14 PM |
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Does it tramline on road markings and stuff like that ? I would look at your tyres.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 24/1/13 at 06:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Does it tramline on road markings and stuff like that ? I would look at your tyres.
It's not too bad but it is sensitive to change in road height, most common is when 10 or so yards of road has been torn up for a pipe and then
they've left it slightly higher than the rest of the road. My car would be all over the place.
What sort of thing would I look at on the tyres? Tyre pressures are checked every fortnight, they're worn Continental Sportcontact 3 with about
2,000 miles left on them. No bulges or damage. The rears have now been replaced with Falken 452 but they went on about ten minutes before it started
snowing, so they still have those tiny little bits of rubber from the moulding process!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 25/1/13 at 09:33 AM |
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it took me months to relax with my current tin-top - but then I has 2.5x the power of the last one
used to feel like I was hanging on for dear life and really twitchy, now it actually feels really predictable and solid but slow 
a new set of tyres helped alot too (arrowspeed budget tyres didn't inspire much confidence )
got some vredestein sportrac3's and it turned into a different car
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38No, this is my daily driver tintop SEAT Toledo, everything is standard.
my mum got a year and a half old totally standard polo thats hardly done any miles and never had anything done to it
obviously we thought it would be fine - untill it started wearing the tyres on the insides
the tyre place up the road from us has just got there brand new fancy 4 wheel alignment kit - turns out it was miles off !
(probably had been since it left the factory  )
similar story with a mates passat - he had his from new, yet it was so bad it need a subframe offset kit to sort it
and the my dad's disco 3 was a fair bit out too (its now on the absolute limit of some of the adjusters to correct it  )
[Edited on 25/1/2013 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 25/1/2013 by mcerd1]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 25/1/13 at 11:36 AM |
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With tintops there is no way to get an accurate enough datum for 4 wheel alignment as a result if you get the alignment checked it always be
pronounced to be out.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 25/1/13 at 12:09 PM |
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^^ doesn't surprise me, what sort of ballpark error/tollerance would you expect from a bog std. tin-top ?
the cars I mentioned above must have been miles out of the true alignment as they were all wearing tyres fast and unevenly
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Slimy38
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| posted on 25/1/13 at 12:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
With tintops there is no way to get an accurate enough datum for 4 wheel alignment as a result if you get the alignment checked it always be
pronounced to be out.
I've always wondered that, so when Halfords came back and said they'd got it to zero degrees and zero minutes I was wondering how
they'd managed it....
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