alistairolsen
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 12:59 PM |
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Tin top engine preheater
Hi,
I've been looking at engine preheaters as I do a fair amount of commuting on a cold engine and I'm generally lazy and hate being cold.
I'm not overly bothered about the economics of diesel versus electricity from a running cost POV, but I'd prefer to keep the installation
costs down and not build in any tendencies to destroy expensive things like batteries!
It seems there are a few options, the most common in the aftermarket being things like:
http://www.enginepreheater.co.uk/
and
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-preheater-SKU-1-OWL-2-Car-Engine-Pre-Heater-HOT-FROG-Motorvorwarmer-/261359565089?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item
3cda3e7921
Which are going to work out about £120 installed and plug into the mains on a timer which seems reasonable, but obviously is only useful at home, less
so when leaving work late on.
Webasto offer a diesel heater which is waaayy out of my price range new, but they were fitted to Audi A2s amongst other things:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMPLETE-AUDI-A2-1-4-TDI-DIESEL-PRE-HEATER-UNIT-WEBASTO-8Z0-815-069-/271341276001?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&h
ash=item3f2d334b61
Probably a little more complex to connect up, but will work anywhere you leave the car.
Finally some manufacturers seem to try to do it all with 12v with what looks like 4 glow plugs:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-VIVARO-RENAULT-TRAFIC-NISSAN-PRIMASTAR-1-9COOLANT-WATER-PRE-HEATER-470-/190998730288?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarPa
rts_SM&hash=item2c78695630
I cant help thinking this cant be overly effective, and the load on the battery must be horrendous?
Does anyone run one? If so which type and how do you find it?
Cheers
My Build Thread
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Russell
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 01:41 PM |
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I had a Kenlowe 230v one on a diesel Peugeot 405. In fact I've still got it somewhere in my garage (the heater, that is - the car is long
gone). I half expected one day to drive off with it still plugged in but thankfully I never did.
The heater was great. It plumbed in line with the heater hoses and used a small element like in a kettle and a motor coupked to a small impeller to
circulate the water. If I recall it took about 20-30 minuites to bring the car up to temperature. I fitted the 230v weatherproof socket just under
the bumper at the front and the heater went on a bracket I made under the battery tray. Left on a timer at the end of the day, toasty warm in the
morning ready for work.
An easy DIY installation as long as your car's cooling system isn't a bugger to bleed afterwards (the 405 was easy).
I'm a bilingual illiterate. I can't read in two languages.
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scimjim
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 01:49 PM |
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A friend recently fitted an autoheat pre-heater (your first link) and tested it at differing ambient temps for different periods - "a waste of
money" was the polite version his official findings 
My diesel x5 had one fitted (diesel fired) and it was phenomenal (I lived in Germany and it was regularly -10 degC with a foot of fresh snow when I
left for work.) the timer had it really warm when I jumped in.
Spent some time in Norway and Canada, where they're far more affordable and used - might be worth looking there?
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owelly
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 01:56 PM |
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Look to the Rover Group for cheap diesel preheaters. Some 75s had them. My Range Rover had one but the RR badge seems to add value on ebay!!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 02:13 PM |
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I have a bit of experience with the old Bray heaters they fitted in they bottom hose. Lots of advantages especially if need to be 100% sure the
vehicle will cold start, they can save on fuel costs especially with LPG vehicles, reduced wear and tear but the biggest advantage is the
heater works instantly.
Airport fire tenders have heaters (and float battery charger) powered up when they are ready for use, they use power leads that disconnect when
the appliance pulls away --- causes no end of work for airport electricians.
As my tintop the fuel consumption is 10% worse in cold weather I looked at fitting an oil pan heater which are fairly cheap in the USA but
expensive to import.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 03:06 PM |
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Referred to as block heaters here in Canada, almost all cars sold here come with them fitted.
Small heater element placed in a frost plug (casting hole to let the sand out) with a short household plug fitted to a short length of wire to get it
to the front of the vehicle.
The heater is plugged to the house circuit with a timer set to come on a couple of hours before the vehicle is started.
When the unit first comes on you hear a sound like an electric kettle.
It preheats the engine to about 50 C so warmup takes less time and interior heat comes on quicker.
All of the above applies to petrol engines, the only experience I have had with diesels is large lorries which in the past ran all the time and later
with a small diesel furnace to heat the water in the engine, called a Hot Box.
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 03:57 PM |
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interesting stuff, Ill avoid the autoheat one! Putting it in in place of a freeze plug/core plug Id heard of before, but the installation in hoses
seems easier when the engines in the car I guess....
Webasto heaters seem to be available on Ebay for fairly sensible money, but Id want to remove it from a scrapper I guess cos Id need the heater,
exhaust, brakets, fuel pump, wiring loom, controller etc. Apparently a lot of the newer ones are tied into the canbus trickery too.
My Build Thread
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Brook_lands
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 08:16 PM |
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My Xantia has a diesel fired one - never worked since I got the car. My S-Type diesel has one as well, very good if you can live with the clouds of
smoke issuing forth from the off side front wheel arch and the accompanying alarmed hand signals from fellow motorists convinced your car is on
fire.
The Xsara diesel had the four glowplug jobby which appeared to be a waste of space.
The diesel burners as also fitter to VW Type 4 caravenettes I think, but as you say even used they are a price.
Now I know how good they are I might try fixing the one in the Citroen.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 09:12 PM |
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Regards de-icing on wintery mornings try sticking an old hair dry in the car 20 minutes before you set off.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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paulf
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| posted on 23/12/13 at 11:33 PM |
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A lot of rover 75 diesels do have them, but unfortunately a lot of them dont work.
They are prone to PCB faults and a new PCB is about £200, sometimes they can be fixed by the replacement of a couple of resistors that tend to go open
circuit, however my car had one that was beyond repair when I got it and I managed to get a working replacement for £100 but that has now failed after
a couple of years.
I was tempted to try and plumb in a dishwasher heater unit of the type that is an in line tubular element but it would only be of use when parked at
home for early morning starts.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
Look to the Rover Group for cheap diesel preheaters. Some 75s had them. My Range Rover had one but the RR badge seems to add value on ebay!!
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ashg
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| posted on 24/12/13 at 09:37 AM |
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my 3 series has it built in. you can either set a timer on the i-drive or kick it off with the key.
have you thought about fitting a remote start module so you can start the car from in doors before you go out?
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 24/12/13 at 09:47 AM |
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Yeah but it's not kind on the engine to leave it sitting idling and dervs take literally forever to warm up with no load at idle sadly!
My Build Thread
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trextr7monkey
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| posted on 24/12/13 at 10:02 AM |
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The builder and previous owner of the Ninja Jago assembled in the early 80's had very prudently fitted the Kenlowe version plumbed into cooling
system so that the x flow engine would start everytime (it was his daily drive) and also to reduce wear in his factory replacement goldseal engine.
When we got the car it was mechanically as sweet as a nut and over the years we came to appreciate the skill he had used to build what was an
excellent vehicle- he had been Rolls Royce trained. And apparently they all had preheaters fitted
Hth Mike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14016102@N00/ (cut and paste this dodgey link)
Our most recent pics are here:
http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/trextr7monkey/
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