jonabonospen
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 08:58 PM |
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Clarification needed on towing on a post 1997 license
Looking at the possibilities of towing my Mac#1 to track days once ready and somewhat confused when it comes to the licensing and limits of what you
can and can't pull depending on when you passed your test.
I passed my test after 1997 so I understand I am limited to:
"The MAM of the trailer must not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combined MAM of the trailer and vehicle must not
exceed 3500kg if the MAM of the trailer is more than 750kg.
If the MAM of the trailer is 750kg or less, the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle must not exceed 4250kg and the MAM of the towing
vehicle should not exceed 3500kg."
I currently drive a 54 plate Fiat Doblo 1.9 JTD. The Mac#1 will weight about 500kg say. Trailer will weigh say 600kg unladen (according to trailer
hire website) and a towing capacity of 2600kg.
Here are the details of my Doblo capabilities according to the www.uktow.com website:
Make Model Year Kerbweight (Kg) 85% (Kg) Towing Capacity (Kg)
Fiat Doblo 1.9 JTD Active 2005 1394 1184.9 1104
So how I see it is the trailer and Mac#1 will have a combined weight of 1100kg which means it JUST is within the Doblo's towing capacity. So the
1100kg together with the 1394kg of the Doblo gives a total of 2494kg which is under the 3500kg so that makes it all legal.
That right or am I doing this all wrong???
If I have done this right then the towing capacity of the Doblo is pretty close to the mark, especially as I am assuming the weight of the Mac#1 so
therefore it is't 100% accurate. So looking forward, as the combined weight of the Mac#1, trailer, and towing vehicle doesn't come close
to the total limit, I guess I may just be better looking for a better towing chariot, something like a Mondeo or BMW diesel or something.
MAC#1 ZX10R WORX BUILD BLOG: http://mac1-zx10r-worx-build-blog.tumblr.com/
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daniel mason
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:05 PM |
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That's how it should be but not how it is!
You have to allow the 2600kg of the trailer so you car can't tow it and you'll do be way over 3500kg gross when added to fiat gross weight
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jonabonospen
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That's how it should be but not how it is!
You have to allow the 2600kg of the trailer so you car can't tow it and you'll do be way over 3500kg gross when added to fiat gross weight
So in essence then is it the case that realistically you cannot tow any sort of car on a car trailer if you passed your driving test after 1997 as
surely most car trailers must be around this 2600kg maximum gross weight?
MAC#1 ZX10R WORX BUILD BLOG: http://mac1-zx10r-worx-build-blog.tumblr.com/
MY PERSONAL BLOG: http://jonabonospen.tumblr.com/
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Talon Motorsport
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
That's how it should be but not how it is!
You have to allow the 2600kg of the trailer so you car can't tow it and you'll do be way over 3500kg gross when added to fiat gross weight
You have read that wrong neither the trailer or the tow car weigh their gross weight when empty, their gross weight is the maxium when FULLY loaded.
The trailer empty as said only weighs 600kgs the MAC#1 500kgs.
You also need to be aware of the stamping on the plate of the tow car regarding the Gross Train Weight ie the weight of the tow car , the trailer and
the MAC#1.
You will also need to have taken your B+E car and trailer test to tow any trailer over 750kg.
Another way to look at it is you can drive a 3500kg truck so why not hire a self drive recovery truck instead?
[Edited on 15/2/15 by Talon Motorsport]
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:41 PM |
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How do the numbers add up if you go for a specialist trailer?
I had a BJ Minno at one time, when I didn't have a driveway, the trailer would go into the direct entry garage with the car on top (with some
choice language from 'fellow' motorists while doing it). I'm sure it was plated 1600 Kg, not the usual 2000 Kg, but then I'm
now pretty much having senior moments continuously.
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Talon Motorsport
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:55 PM |
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If some thing is plated as '1600kgs gross weight' then that is the maxium that it can weigh when fully loaded, ie a 200kg empty trailer
can only carry a 1400kg load.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 09:59 PM |
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Don't think I have read it wrong. Trailer mam is 2600kg and that's the figure used!
It's nothing to do with Unladen weights unless your puttin a 2000kg car (Unladen) on a trailer plated at 1500kg max or similar!
Minnos are generally plated at 1380kg and lots of single axle trailers weigh around 300kg
It's easily possible to tow on a license.
Eg if you got a twin axle bj minno plated at 1380kg mam then you have over 2100kgs for a tow car gvw
[Edited on 15/2/15 by daniel mason]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 10:09 PM |
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And you Definately DONT need a b+e to tow over 750kg
You can tow upto 3500kg mam combined:
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bi22le
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| posted on 15/2/15 at 11:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
And you Definately DONT need a b+e to tow over 750kg
You can tow upto 3500kg mam combined:
+1
It must be braked if over 750kg which is the same for B +E.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Davey D
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| posted on 16/2/15 at 08:58 AM |
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with a post 1997 B licence your limits are set by the Gross values stamped on the trailer + towing vehicle irregardless of being loaded or not. So
your maximum values are:
vehicle 3500kg + trailer 750kg giving max of 4250kg or you can pull a heavier trailer BUT the gross theoretical of Car + trailer can be no more than
3500kg, and curb weight of car must be more than the trailer.
e.g: My setup is as follows:
Volvo V50. Curb weight: 1500kg. Gross 1950kg
Ifor williams CT115. unladen weight 350kg Gross 1400kg - meaning i can put 1050kg on the trailer
Car curb weight is 100kg heavier than gross weight of trailer
1950kg car gross + 1400kg trailer gross = 3350kg, so nicely under the limit.
In reality when loaded up with what i need for a track day the car is around 1700kg, and the loaded trailer is at around 1000kg, but its the gross
theoretical values stamped onto the plates that vosa/police are interested in with B license holders only
( Ive read that is because we cant be trusted to gauge how much a trailer is loaded... although an empty trailer is F**in obvious that its not going
to weigh anything)
Which is pretty annoying as i keep my EMPTY trailer out of the way at work, but to take it home i often use my transit connect which is only rated to
tow 800kg. As said above - the empty trailer only weighs 350kg, but due to being stamped at 1400kg gross it is rated at more than the van can tow. If
common sense took over i would be fine as it pretty damn obvious the trailer is empty thus weighing well under what the van can tow, but they dont
care about things like that 
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/2/15 at 06:28 PM |
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That is correct davey! But I have fallen foul of this rule as I misunderstood the info also. Im now selling my trailer for one like yours hopefully
but the bed width is mega tight for me!
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 16/2/15 at 07:39 PM |
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The easy way through this is to down-plate your trailer so that it's MAM suits the towing vehicle and what you want to put on it.
The most you can tow is the lowest out of:
- Your car's unladen weight
- You car's max towing weight
- 3500 minus the car's MAM/GVW
So the optimal solution is to re-plate the trailer (staying within whatever it was originally plated as), to match the lowest of these.
[Edited on 16/2/15 by matt_claydon]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/2/15 at 08:42 PM |
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But even then a 600kg Unladen trailer as originally stated with a 7 full of fuel on top will be dangerously close to the limits of the tow car
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scimjim
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| posted on 17/2/15 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
The easy way through this is to down-plate your trailer so that it's MAM suits the towing vehicle and what you want to put on it.
The most you can tow is the lowest out of:
- Your car's unladen weight
- You car's max towing weight
- 3500 minus the car's MAM/GVW
So the optimal solution is to re-plate the trailer (staying within whatever it was originally plated as), to match the lowest of these.
[Edited on 16/2/15 by matt_claydon]
that's one of the best explanations I've seen (ignoring licence complications) - but it's difficult to derate a hired trailer 
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jonabonospen
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| posted on 18/2/15 at 09:52 PM |
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I've been in touch with a local trailer hire company asking them what trailers they had and what their recommendations were regarding this
license issue. Basically this is the response I received back, which I think pretty well explains it:
"On the current "B" driving licence you are allowed a car & trailer combined maxinum of 3500kg, within that, the car must weigh
more than the trailer.
This based on the MAM (Max allowable mass) of each, not the actual weights you are dealing with. It's all down to chassis plates.
So the quick answer is no. Your van can pull 1100kg, and the trailer we hire is 2600kg gross.
In actual weights however, your car weighs 550kg, the trailer weighs 500kg which is just in. As long as the kerb weight of the van is more than 1050kg
you have a safe load.
We could make a serial plate for the trailer stating a downrated gross weight of 1100kg which is a potential solution.
This at least states that you don't intend to tow 2600kg at any point."
So the long and short is that it DEFINITELY goes on the chassis plates Max Allowable Mass and not the weight of what you are actually carrying /
towing.
MAC#1 ZX10R WORX BUILD BLOG: http://mac1-zx10r-worx-build-blog.tumblr.com/
MY PERSONAL BLOG: http://jonabonospen.tumblr.com/
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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