MakeEverything
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 posted on 5/8/10 at 07:37 PM |
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Council Madness.... Lazy C***s
I popped and shredded a tyre on a side road in april following our bout of inclement weather, so as per the councils website, i logged the fault and
it was repaired the following week.
In response to reporting this pothole, a letter arrive din the post, with a claim form. Oh i thought, they must pay out for damages. So i fill it in
and return it.
Today, i received a letter explaining that their investigation was complete, and that the council were not negligent and so were not paying up.
This is my reply to them this evening;
quote:
Dear Miss Grant,
I write to you in response to your letter dated 2nd August 2010.
The incident in which I had sustained irreparable damage to the tyre on my vehicle was caused by an excessively large hole in the road, which I
diligently reported to the council for repair, and I strongly disagree with your statement with regards to the county council being negligent for the
following reasons;
Following such extreme weather conditions and the gradual degradation of the roads around Stevenage in general, ad-hoc checks of the local roads
should have been carried out as a duty of care, particularly as these weather conditions were somewhat abnormal in comparison to previous years.
The particular road in question is one which I and my wife use frequently, to deliver and collect our son from Nursery nearby three days per week, as
well as to gain access to the ********* ****** Park, and is generally in a reasonable state of repair. The hole only appeared following the inclement
weather, and the councils negligence to inspect the roads after these abnormal conditions and in addition to the planned preventative maintenance, is
the cause of the incident concerned on the 7th April 2010.
Clearly, the council has not exercised duty of care, which has resulted in the “High Volume of Claims” which you refer to in your letter to me, and
also demonstrates the councils failure to observe the roads following abnormal conditions.
Please send reimbursement for the replacement tyre, which i had no choice but to replace due to the damage sustained. This will alleviate the
necessity to proceed to small claims court.
I look forward to your prompt reply.
Kind Regards,
Is this out of order?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:40 PM |
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good letter. i like it. hopefully it gets you a result though. you know what councils are like...
maybe would have been an idea to send a copy of the bill for the tyre. did you get the tracking etc reset too?
[Edited on 5/8/10 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
good letter. i like it. hopefully it gets you a result though. you know what councils are like...
maybe would have been an idea to send a copy of the bill for the tyre. did you get the tracking etc reset too?
[Edited on 5/8/10 by blakep82]
I did. They wanted a sketch, the original bill, and description of the incident. I sent everything they asked for.
I didnt get the tracking done, as it wasnt a hard hit, rather just a sharp jagged hole which popped the sidewall of the tyre. No other damage than
that.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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stevegough
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:46 PM |
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There should be no question of them not paying up - they have insurance backing for these types of incidents.
I suffered a damaged alloy wheel some years back, wrote a simple letter to the council, backed it up with photos, and they paid up quite fast with no
quibbling.
- good letter - give them some stick and don't give up.
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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GMPMotorsport
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:50 PM |
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Excellent letter,polite but to the point, keep us all posted with any further developments/
www.gmpdevelopments.co.uk
www.gmpmotorsport.co.uk
ARDS Instructer.
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craig1410
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:53 PM |
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I think you will find that they are not negligent if you happened to be the first to report the problem.
I have managed to get compensation for damage to my wheel and tyre in the past but on that occasion one of my colleagues was kind enough to report the
pothole a couple of days before I made my claim and since they hadn't fixed it I was able to claim against them.
Even in the above case, it took me 6 months to get my £240.
Good luck!
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phoenix70
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:56 PM |
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^^^
He is right, they are only liable if the knew about it and did nothing. The company I work for does road maintenance and thats how it work sorry.
Unfortunately they can't inspect every road every day, so there will always be a time when potholes exist, and these potholes can appear
overnight.
I think the road we look after are inspected weekly, so if a pothole appears between inspection, they unfortunately its your problem not ours.
I would continue to badger them, knowing the councils they may give up and pay out just to get you off their back.
[Edited on 5/8/10 by phoenix70]
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perksy
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 07:57 PM |
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Good Letter, Polite but to the point
Good Luck with your claim
Think councils are getting more difficult on this one and think there was a recent court case that found in favour of the council ?
Pothole info here:
http://www.potholes.co.uk/facts
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
^^^
He is right, they are only liable if the knew about it and did nothing. The company I work for does road maintenance and thats how it work sorry.
Unfortunately they can't inspect every road every day, so there will always be a time when potholes exist, and these potholes can appear
overnight.
[Edited on 5/8/10 by phoenix70]
No thats not true. In the eyes of the law, Ignorance is no defence.
With such bad weather conditions, the councils should have had an enhanced inspection regime in place to counter the failing road surfaces before they
get to the state that they did. Its called Duty of Care.
I work for one of those companies as well.
[Edited on 5-8-10 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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pewe
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 08:35 PM |
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For them to have repaired it the following week it must have been a substantial hole. There were thousands caused by the bad weather and for them to
repair it that quickly they must have prioritised it. Perhaps you should suggest they look at their own records.
Keep at 'em.
Cheers, Pewe 
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AdrianH
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 08:37 PM |
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Whilst I can sympathize with your damaged tyre, I can also understand the 'if no one tells us then not liable' reason.
I also hate the 'if there is blame there must be a claim' culture we have. To me this is why the councils and other bodies now stop
providing many of the services they used to provide for fear of the claim culture! Yes they may well have insurance to cover or just have a fund set
aside for these claims, but in the end we all pay taxes to them.
IMHO
Adrian
Why do I have to make the tools to finish the job? More time then money.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 09:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AdrianH
Whilst I can sympathize with your damaged tyre, I can also understand the 'if no one tells us then not liable' reason.
I also hate the 'if there is blame there must be a claim' culture we have. To me this is why the councils and other bodies now stop
providing many of the services they used to provide for fear of the claim culture! Yes they may well have insurance to cover or just have a fund set
aside for these claims, but in the end we all pay taxes to them.
IMHO
Adrian
I understand what youre saying Adrian, but i also disagree.
If you had excessive noise from the OSF of your car and you ignore it, then your wheel falls off, goes through the windscreen of an oncoming car and
kills the driver. It would be your fault for neglecting the maintenance of your vehicle and making it safe to drive.
The council KNEW the weather was particularly bad, and the roads were constantly deteriorating at an increased rate, but neglected to increase their
reactive or planned maintenance regime.
As a result, (to her admission) they are inundated with claims for damaged vehicles.
Also, lets say your damaged wheel fell off and you hit an ARMCO or streetlamp, and the accident were witnessed and caught on camera. The council
would try and claim off of YOUR insurance for the repair costs.
I see your point, but its not valid in the eyes of Civil Law.
As already said, Ignorance is no defence, and for the record, ive never claimed anything off of anyone else before. The reason the council services
are cut back is because of a shrinking economy caused by unemployable wankers that decide to ponce off the state by having twelve kids and claiming
rediculous amounts of benefits.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Charlie_Zetec
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 10:20 PM |
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I had a similar incident a few years back in sunny Essex - went through a pothole and tore the sidewall of BOTH N/S tyres. I put the spare on one,
and tyreweld the other, and limped the 6 miles home (luckily).
Next morning I went back to the scene and took photos of general road state, as well as close-ups of the pothole itself, with measurements (in a geeky
CSI kinda way). I sent a letter to the local Council who told me that they'd had the road surveyed the previous day, and no defects or bad
reports were fed back afterwards. After I told them I only wanted the cost of 2 replacement tyres, not tracking or refurb of the wheels that were
subsequently curbed, they still refused and denied any liability. I fought the decision, and told them I'd start action through the small
claims court (covers claims of up to £2k IIRC) and paid my £30 costs to get it under way.
Seems someone read the letter telling them I'd started legal action, and within 3 days of letter, I had a reply with a cheque enclosed for £210
(£90 for each of the tyres and £30 costs) if I was to stop proceedings and accept their non-admittance of liability offering to me.
Needless to say, I got what I could and dropped it.
I do understand what people mean about blame culture though, but as someone who's never driven without tax, insurance or MOT, I'm a
law-abiding citizen and feel it's only fair for genuine claims!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 5/8/10 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Charlie_Zetec
but as someone who's never driven without tax, insurance or MOT,
Exactly.
Small claims court is up to £5k im told, but im quite happy to invest the £30 to get £50 back.
Im only claiming 80 odd quid for the tyre.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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interestedparty
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 05:28 AM |
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the thread title calls the council lazy, what have they done that is lazy, or are you just very very cross because they have decided against you?
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 06:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
the thread title calls the council lazy, what have they done that is lazy, or are you just very very cross because they have decided against you?
Both. Have you noticed the gap between the dates?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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interestedparty
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 07:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
the thread title calls the council lazy, what have they done that is lazy, or are you just very very cross because they have decided against you?
Both. Have you noticed the gap between the dates?
Right, so lazy because of the 5 month delay, and c***s because they decided theydidn't need to pay your claim, just wanted to clarify that.
How long between the pothole happening and you dropping a wheel in it?
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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hughpinder
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 08:03 AM |
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I've had a couple of tyres damaged in the past, but not claimed. I always feel I'm at least partly to blame - if I was driving at an
'appropriate' speed I would have avoided the big hole in the ground. Perhaps its because I used to ride bikes and the consequences of
hitting a pothole are much more severe. After all, if it had been a cat/dog/child stood on the road at the point where the hole was I would have hoped
to have seen it and avoided it.
Just my view
Hugh
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 09:40 AM |
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On this basis should I send a letter to my local council warning them that if they decide to cover another road with stones (that do little but fly up
and cause chips in my paintwork) I'm gonna get all those chips done and send them the bill?
There are a good few chips on the car and about half have been caused by them gritting (which is fair enough) and laying stones on the road...
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 02:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
the thread title calls the council lazy, what have they done that is lazy, or are you just very very cross because they have decided against you?
Both. Have you noticed the gap between the dates?
Right, so lazy because of the 5 month delay, and c***s because they decided theydidn't need to pay your claim, just wanted to clarify that.
How long between the pothole happening and you dropping a wheel in it?
I dont remember seeing the hole before, otherwise i would have reported it, but it was a sizeable hole about 6" round and 3" deep with
jagged edges. It cant have just appeared overnight, but with all the ice, snow and grit thawing out, the road was bumpy anyway.
On the left of the one way road, is a row of parked cars, and the hole is in the track of the road, so was completely unavoidable.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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interestedparty
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
the thread title calls the council lazy, what have they done that is lazy, or are you just very very cross because they have decided against you?
Both. Have you noticed the gap between the dates?
Right, so lazy because of the 5 month delay, and c***s because they decided theydidn't need to pay your claim, just wanted to clarify that.
How long between the pothole happening and you dropping a wheel in it?
I dont remember seeing the hole before, otherwise i would have reported it, but it was a sizeable hole about 6" round and 3" deep with
jagged edges. It cant have just appeared overnight, but with all the ice, snow and grit thawing out, the road was bumpy anyway.
On the left of the one way road, is a row of parked cars, and the hole is in the track of the road, so was completely unavoidable.
Thing is, if you hadn't see it how could anyone expect the council to have seen it? To be negligent they need to have been aware of it and not
dealt with it, or to have not been aware of it and fail to make themselves aware of it (within reason).
I dont personally care either way, as its not my council that is affected, or my tyre, but on whats been presented so far it would seem that they are
right not to pay
out.
No offence intended, just pointing out how it seems to someone who isnt involved.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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hughpinder
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 02:33 PM |
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"I dont remember seeing the hole before, otherwise i would have reported it, but it was a sizeable hole about 6" round and 3" deep
with jagged edges. It cant have just appeared overnight, but with all the ice, snow and grit thawing out, the road was bumpy anyway.
On the left of the one way road, is a row of parked cars, and the hole is in the track of the road, so was completely unavoidable. "
So you were driving on an icy, bumpy road with less than 6" clearance (since you couldn't go round a 6" hole) and parked cars down
one side which kids could run out from between, and were going fast enough to puncture a car tyre! I dont know what speed you were doing, but
I've only managed to actually damage tyres at relativly high speed.
Hugh
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scootz
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 04:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
It cant have just appeared overnight...
Old road-repairs often get torn-out as chunks by passing lorries during harsh winters...
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ivan
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 04:53 PM |
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If the Council has a Pavement Management System (PMS) in place it would be worth looking at the report for that road - if it was recommended for
urgent action and they did nothing you have them.
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bigpig
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| posted on 6/8/10 at 05:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by Charlie_Zetec
but as someone who's never driven without tax, insurance or MOT,
Exactly.
Small claims court is up to £5k im told, but im quite happy to invest the £30 to get £50 back.
Im only claiming 80 odd quid for the tyre.
If they knew there was a hole and had plenty of time between the hole being discovered and the incident, i.e. it was reported or found during the
routine, scheduled, road inspections and your tyre was damaged a "reasonable" amount of time later, then you have a chance. I don't
know what would be constituted a reasonable amount of time though, there are all sorts of things to determine that, but you can bet its in weeks
rather than days.
If not & you loose I would suspect you would also be paying the council's costs to attend the hearing which I could bet would add a hundred
quid or more just for that.
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