BenB
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:00 AM |
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Government subsidy for electric cars
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11985866
Holy shite how expensive are they?
Was watching the piece about the Nissan Leaf thinking it would make quite a nice 2nd car (ignoring the fact that to charge it on the street I'd
have to run a cable out of the house and suspend it above the pavement to prevent InjuryLawyers4U having me on speed dial when everyone trips up on
it. And lets ignore the fact that the 100 mile radius is only true if you can find somewhere to recharge it at the other end otherwise it's a 50
mile there-and-back radius.
But how much? £30k! Okay £2 for a full charge seems good but thats 50 miles per pound. I do about 50 miles per gallon in my diesel tintop (average-
lots of traffic round here)... So the cost difference is about 5.4-1=£4.4 per 50 miles.
But the car is basically a Micra which would cost £8k which means you're paying £22k extra to go electric which would take 170,545 miles to
recoup if you factor in the £4.4/50 miles differential compared to a diesel tintop.
I'm out 
You'ld think given the current financial situation the government would stop wasting money! It's a good thing the government doesn't
organise New Years party at beer making facilities....
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interestedparty
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:07 AM |
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I'm interested in electric cars but only really in the technical aspects. I think the idea of them saving the environment is mostly bollocks. If
the government wants to be more environmentally friendly they need to start encouraging people to cover less miles. The commutes some people do are
ridiculous.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:10 AM |
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The batterys will have a life of about 9 years (thats what the prius is anyway) so you would need to average about 52 miles per day so perfectly
doable but, that will only make it the same price as the Micra so you would actually need to do close to the whole 100 miles per day to make it
cheaper
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:14 AM |
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everybody must know its the way forward. but dont think this is particularly impressive tbh. the governments solution to everything just seems to be
tax it or throw money at it.
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McLannahan
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:16 AM |
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There was a company at Exeter KC show that would convert a Mk5 Astra to an electric car. On top of the base car I believe they wanted 7k? Base cars
start at about 2.5k so not cheap but more realistic than 30k!
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BenB
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:22 AM |
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And of course if you switch on the heating (cos it's bloody freezing at the moment) your mileage drops significantly. It's a real shame on
the Leaf that they didn't utilise the waste heat created by the engine. But instead they went for a resistive heating system... It does seem a
missed opportunity IMHO.
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balidey
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:33 AM |
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The inflated price is probably just that.... inflated. So the manufacturer gets a bigger return, but as its seen as being green (as opposed to
actually being green) then they know the government will just chuck money at them. Pure fat cat mentallity.
Also a real missed oportunity here. An electric car needs to start with a blank sheet of paper. What you don't do is start with a crappy mass
produced petrol car and adapt it to be electric. Surely the manufacturers should know that?
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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nick205
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by balidey
Also a real missed oportunity here. An electric car needs to start with a blank sheet of paper. What you don't do is start with a crappy mass
produced petrol car and adapt it to be electric. Surely the manufacturers should know that?
I agree entirely that it should be a blank paper approach to design. However a large part of the problem is us! By that I mean the car buying masses
who won't rush to adopt alternative fuel vehicles and certainly won't rush to adopt something that doesn't look like our ingrained
perception of a car - we're a pretty conservative bunch really.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by balidey
Also a real missed oportunity here. An electric car needs to start with a blank sheet of paper. What you don't do is start with a crappy mass
produced petrol car and adapt it to be electric. Surely the manufacturers should know that?
I agree entirely that it should be a blank paper approach to design. However a large part of the problem is us! By that I mean the car buying masses
who won't rush to adopt alternative fuel vehicles and certainly won't rush to adopt something that doesn't look like our ingrained
perception of a car - we're a pretty conservative bunch really.
As soon as you put 4 wheels and a waterproof cabin with glass windows on it, you end up with somthing that looks like a car. As for the cosntruction
methods, what else are they going to use, composite materials etc would be a lot slower and a lot more expensive.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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coozer
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 09:51 AM |
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Crap innit? Lets go back a few years, nice clean electric trams, then trolley buses. The Coop milk man coming round in his (slow) but quiet clean
float.
If they could come up with that technology in them days why are we expected to pay through the nose for what Nissan are trumping 'new'
technology?
Anyone seen the film "Who Killed The Electric Car"??
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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balidey
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 10:15 AM |
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Can you imagine, in 15 to 20 years time we will call these cars........ DONORS 
Dutch bears have terrible skin due to their clogged paws
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Agriv8
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 10:28 AM |
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The list of chimicals ( and precious metals ) in the battery that and until the electricity can be produces without focil fuels I belive it is all
smoke and mirrors.
regards
Agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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philw
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 10:36 AM |
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Does anybody know the price of a set of replacement batteries for a Prius?
Just googled it and they are about £2k
[Edited on [1292323236R0=103131p: by philw]
Must try harder
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PSpirine
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 12:11 PM |
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Electric cars will be expensive for a few years - it's all to do with the cost of battery capacity, nothing else. The technology is there (any
manufacturer can build a Tesla roadster tomorrow). It's how much one KWh of battery costs. And at the moment it's too high.
Why do you think diesel hybrids are low on the ground? Cause a Small hatchback with a hybrid installation has a premium cost (thanks, batteries!), and
a small hatchback with a diesel engine has a premium cost (thanks, stupidly complex diesel engines!). Combine the two and you end up pricing your
small hatchback WAY out of the market.
The leaf isn't a perfect electric car by any means, but if it gets the ball rolling, it'll have achieved what it set out to do. And their
plan for having free recharge stations at Nissan dealers is a brilliant way of dealing with the infrastructure obstacles of charging leccies.
(No bias here as I work for another car manufacturer, and we're not releasing an electric car next year!)
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mcerd1
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 12:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by philw
Does anybody know the price of a set of replacement batteries for a Prius?
Just googled it and they are about £2k
ouch! and thats for a car that doesn't totaly rely on the battery...
servicing is always going to be a killer - I guess/predict when these get older they'll run along no problem for years (they are so mechnicaly
simple there isn't much to go wrong) - then bang you'll get landed with a bill for 3 times what the cars worth and the scrap yards will be
full of cars with the same problems
between the cost, the weight and the fact it takes time to charge a battery isn't the answer - fuel cell's are looking more like the
answer.... (not just hydrogen ones)
-
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MK9R
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 12:38 PM |
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electric cars that you charge are not the way forward IMO, the car needs its own onboard generator before it will a viable petrol/diesel alternative
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 12:42 PM |
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I think Jaguar are on the right (more realistic) track with their gas turbines which charge the batteries. That way the ratio of batteries can be
reduced, making it lighter, cheaper to produce & replace. The turbines can be made to run on practically anything so the equivalent miles per
gallon figure will plummet.
[Edited on 14-12-10 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
I think Jaguar are on the right (more realistic) track with their gas turbines which charge the batteries. That way the ratio of batteries can be
reduced, making it lighter, cheaper to produce & replace. The turbines can be made to run on practically anything so the equivalent miles per
gallon figure will plummet.
[Edited on 14-12-10 by RazMan]
And its looking more and more like its going to go into production!
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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tony-devon
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 01:48 PM |
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just heard about it on the radio, 25% discounts, hell at them prices the sort of people that can afford them dont need the sodding discount
the rich will buy them get free road tax, dirt cheap motoring, while people like me will be stuck with huge fuel bills, massive road tax etc etc,
strange ol world
heavy is good, heavy is reliable, and if it breaks, hit them with it
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blakep82
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 01:49 PM |
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a 50 mile radius (or even 100 mile) between charges is hopeless! how am i supposed to get to my sisters in nottingham at christmas on that? and how
long does it take to charge? it'll take days to get there. unless they can be charged in a few minutes (like filling a petrol tank) then it
won't work.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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morcus
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 02:13 PM |
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I think it's a good idea. It's not the answer to everything but the simple fact is we're to dependant on petroleum at the moment for
transport and electricity is the best way to power a car, people have known this since before the internal combustion engine, it's just you need
the right storage and infrastructure.
I would guess the vast majority of people (UK population as a whole) do less than 50 miles a day so would really benefit from having an electric car
to go to work in, plus the other benefits of free road tax, no congestion charge, instant tourque and power the list goes on.
Electric cars should need alot less servicing as there are few moving parts, and fewer oils and lubricants. Your drive train is literally a battery,
some wires and some motors, and at the moment the batteries seem to be the only thing complex and expensive about them. When the batteries come down
in price and complexity is when these things will really take off.
It does seem to me though that one thing people hold about electric cars is they never seem to be 'drivers cars' but it seems the reason
for this is there is simply no market because the people who would by a car like that believe it's not possible. I also think if Mini put the
Mini-E in to production it would sell.
I think the range extended cars will do better as people will have more confidence in them not running out of power.
If you want the biggest arguement against getting an electric car though, go and get an insurance quote for something with a huge number of expensive
batteries in it...
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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BenB
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 03:36 PM |
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It's true that most people do drive only a few miles a day but what about when you don't want to? Are we really supposed to have a
"spare" car for longer journeys?
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dlatch
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 06:48 PM |
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electric battery powered cars are a instant fail with current battery tech available
also batteries manufacturing is not very friendly to the earth.
electric motor tech is at a good level just need a better way of producing the power, hence the fuel cell idea which will imo
be what we will end up with eventually
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sonic
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 07:12 PM |
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imagine you are sat at home and the wife daughter,son rings and says i have broken down or had a crash or some other panic situation somebody close
has been taken ill etc where you need to jump in your car and respond!,Hang on an hour or two until my car charges up! O and when i get to the dark
country lane in the snow were the car has broken down and i have had my lights and heater on will there be a charging tree to plug it
in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Total waste of time,even in cities were these things may work every idiot/gipo and the like will be unplugging it for a laugh or trying to tap into it
so they can wire there caravan up!!
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tul214
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| posted on 14/12/10 at 07:44 PM |
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I have had the misfortune of driving an electric Smart car today!
The company I work for has installed 5 charging points in store carparks in London and 1 in our head office in Leeds.
It takes 8hrs for a full charge and that gives you 60 miles travelling at a max of 65mph.
I was sh1t1ng it on the M62 today, constantly worried that I might run out of battery and concious of the wagons passing me when the little thing
dropped to 45mph on the up-hill drags.
I would say that around town it was fine and actually quite nippy upto 30mph but the length of time it needs to recharge is very restrictive.
Mark
1.6 Raw Super6 sold
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