I'm looking for a cheap sub 2k capable little track car and weekend toy, what are peoples thoughts and findings on the little clio's?
I've owned just about everything else in the past, including 205gti's (several), Mx5's , pulsar gtir (just sold). I'm not
expecting to be the fastest out there and the tracks I will be going to such as Elvington, Blyton and Teeside are not that big.
Andy- I considered the newer type r civic but they don't seem to get quite as positive response on handling like the renault ,not really
considering the older version civic as they look a little dated now..
If you can find a good one I'd look for a 172cup. Lighter as standard with none of the heavy toys of the 182. They are basic though with no Abs
Air con etc. I've found that parts for the 172 are slightly cheaper too, Exhaust especially.
As said above make sure the belts and dephaser have been done. It's an expensive job at a specialist but I did one over a weekend myself by
whipping the engine out which was 100 x easier than trying to do in Situ.
Trophy is a good investment car (IMO), will be the one that holds its value best, but the premium they command (for a track car), you would be better
buying a standard 1*2 and adding your own choice of suspension. Rebuilding the sachs trophy shocks is circa £800 (inc getting them
'unpined' so you can adjust the shocks). So an allround set of coilovers at about £500 (gaz), or the ever popular (never tried by me)
fixed height cook sport springs and either some adjustable bilsteins, koni etc are a better option.
quote:Originally posted by sdh2903
If you can find a good one I'd look for a 172cup. Lighter as standard with none of the heavy toys of the 182. They are basic though with no Abs
Air con etc. I've found that parts for the 172 are slightly cheaper too, Exhaust especially.
As said above make sure the belts and dephaser have been done. It's an expensive job at a specialist but I did one over a weekend myself by
whipping the engine out which was 100 x easier than trying to do in Situ.
I've changed 205 gti cambelts with less than an inch between the strut turret and the engine, can they be any more difficult? My best friend is
a top mechanic too which helps
They are a specialist job because the genuine tools for timing them are expensive and the none genuine are apparently shite. Certainly seen many cars
making poor power and it being down to poor cam timing
Cup to normal weight difference is about 54KG IIRC.
As above, 182 exhaust not something you can get from euros, so a branded aftermarket is cheapest option. Most other parts are shared though.
Later cups and 182s have more caster which known to be a worth while change, however, a new set of lower trackarms/wishbones can add this to any
earlier model. 182 cups have a larger Front wheel bearing and different bolt spacing on the shocks, so make sure you check before replacing front
shocks.
I personally prefer the non cup versions as AC on a hot trackday is a god send, as are the xenon lights for winter driving.
172 engine can be brought up to 182 spec with a change of inlet manifold, and exhaust manifold/front pipe. Fairly cheap way to add 10 ish brake.
Cambelt/dephaser change isn't as hard as some specialist like to make out, however I can see that it would be easy to get wrong even for a pro
diy'er without really triple checking the procedure. I've done 3 with engine in place, its not fun and a weekender but much cheaper than
getting it done by specialist. However the parts and tool costs aren't pleasant. Cam/tdc lock kit is circa £70, genuine cambelt, aux belt and
dephaser will set you back £300, so its defo worth looking for one thats been done, but dont assume its been done by someone who is a specialist or
has triple checked the way to do it. Its common for them to be down on power due to bad timing job.
That helps a lot thanks, if viewing a car other than the obvious A/C how do you know if it is a cup or not? is it stated on the log book as an
example.
I have seen some FF ones for sale, now i know what that means.
quote:Originally posted by theduck
They are a specialist job because the genuine tools for timing them are expensive and the none genuine are apparently shite. Certainly seen many cars
making poor power and it being down to poor cam timing
Ah, I understand, will check it doesn't need one any time soon and proof of one already fitted.
There are plenty of non cup 172 and 182's around is the cup the better handling car or would you not notice any difference?
quote:Originally posted by Andy D
Honda? Civic or CRX? I think the 1600 vtec is around 150bhp standard My son has a crx, well tweaked. He was testing at Teesside not long back.
quote:Originally posted by marco
There are plenty of non cup 172 and 182's around is the cup the better handling car or would you not notice any difference?
My 172s were non cup, my first 182 was also, but my latest 182 is what they nickname a 'fullfat', which means its a standard car (so
leather, xenons, ac, abs etc) but has both cup options fitted, the styling pack (larger spoiler and splitter) and the suspension (and grey wheels).
I can say this car car feels better, but as the cars were all 10+yr old its hard to tell if that could be down to less worn/more recently replaced
parts.
Previous owner did tell me he replaced wishbones and track arms with genuine parts the previous year, which is known to make the world of
difference.
Unless you could have back to back tests I suspect it would only be slightly noticeable.
Less weight of the proper Cup version (no AC, ABS, leather, zenons) would no doubt add to that noticablity.
Its worth noting that some proper cups had AC fitted as an option (way to tell is if it has digital climate (non cup) or just an AC button, (cup with
AC option). Trophies were cup spec, but had non climate AC as standard IIRC.
The trophies front shock absorbers needed servicing every 12 months, so 99% of the ones on the road have either knackered front shocks or are running
standard 182 gear or aftermarket shocks.
That helps a lot thanks,when I'm viewing a car other than the obvious A/C how do you know if it is a cup or not? is it stated on the log book as
an example.
I have seen some FF ones for sale, now i know what that means.
quote:Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:Originally posted by marco
There are plenty of non cup 172 and 182's around is the cup the better handling car or would you not notice any difference?
My 172s were non cup, my first 182 was also, but my latest 182 is what they nickname a 'fullfat', which means its a standard car (so
leather, xenons, ac, abs etc) but has both cup options fitted, the styling pack (larger spoiler and splitter) and the suspension (and grey wheels).
I can say this car car feels better, but as the cars were all 10+yr old its hard to tell if that could be down to less worn/more recently replaced
parts.
Previous owner did tell me he replaced wishbones and track arms with genuine parts the previous year, which is known to make the world of
difference.
Unless you could have back to back tests I suspect it would only be slightly noticeable.
Less weight of the proper Cup version (no AC, ABS, leather, zenons) would no doubt add to that noticablity.
Its worth noting that some proper cups had AC fitted as an option (way to tell is if it has digital climate (non cup) or just an AC button, (cup with
AC option). Trophies were cup spec, but had non climate AC as standard IIRC.
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Building: 2 MK Indys 929 blade and a zx10r now a Westy V8
posted on 16/3/15 at 02:51 PM
Clios are superb cars, mine was alot of fun, but the lack of a LSD limits its ability as a track car, you can fit one, I enquired, but your looking at
over £1000.
Many of the hot Civics come with them standard, so I would go Civic for the track.
quote:Originally posted by marco
That helps a lot thanks,when I'm viewing a car other than the obvious A/C how do you know if it is a cup or not? is it stated on the log book as
an example.
I have seen some FF ones for sale, now i know what that means.
Ph1 clio 172 (non facelift) (no cup version made) 2000-2001
Easy to spot body (early stule head lights, all red tails) Engine has minor differences - mechanical throttle most obvious.
15" 10 spoke alloys.
Exclusive version had colour and wheel changes.
Ph2 172 (facelift) 2001-2003
Most common in silver (iceberg), also in monaco blue (dark ish), red and black.
5 spoke 16s in silver
Standard was climate, xenons, cd changer, half leather, 60/40 split rear seat.
only option was satnav.
Early ones (2002/3 ish) had no ESP, later ones had it (fully turn-off-able), they also added cruise control at this point.
Ph2 172 cup - 2002 onwards.
Most common in mondial blue (mid metallic), also in iceberg.
No ABS, no xenons, fabric seats, bench rear seat. Cup spoiler (larger with oval brake light), splitter (1inch black plastic strip below front
bumper)
AC was option
10 spoke 16s in silver (speedline turini's, worth lots on there own)
Cruise and esp also added at same time as above
Ph2 182 2004-2005
Similar spec as 172, cd changer became option. Options were cup spoilers, cup suspension (inc grey 10 spoke wheels, not turinis), recaro seats,
satnav, stripes on racing blue versions. ESP and cruise standard.
Different colours, twin exhaust, new 10 spoke wheels (silver standard, grey on cup suspension option).
Extra power from inlet and exhaust manifold changes.
Ph2 182 Cup 2004-2005
No ABS, no xenons, fabric seats, bench rear seat. Cup spoiler (larger with oval brake light), splitter (1inch black plastic strip below front bumper),
10 spoke grey wheels.
AC standard, options were recaro seats & stripes on racing blue version. Only in infernus orange and racing blue (solid blue, some times
(incorrectly) called gordini.).
182 Trophy. 2005
Only in capsicum red.
Generally same spec as 182 cup.
V6 style rear spoiler, grey turini 16s (offset different to 172 versions IIRC)
standard with recaros, ac, sachs dampers (remote reservoir)
552 made, 500 to uk, 52 to switzerland.
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Building: 2 MK Indys 929 blade and a zx10r now a Westy V8
posted on 16/3/15 at 05:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by marco
Doesn't look like a lot in it between the Clio and the Civic
quote:Originally posted by Andy D
..meanwhile back in the Honda corner..
Honda (Civic) v Clio at Oulton. ...OK I know you're after a Clio, but just for a bit of entertaiment.
Thats no standard Clio cup if I recall, its a Clio cup full on race car, with sequential 6 speed and 200bhp and a LSD, your not going to keep up with
Pete's old Civic in a standard Clio racer.
