bi22le
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| posted on 15/5/16 at 09:39 PM |
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tin top vs se7en on track
It has been discussed before about mid to top end punch lacking on a se7en. For example i will be hard pushed to keep up with a Leon cupra R on a
rolling 60mph to 110mph sprint.
On track I would expect to smoke it.
So, take my car with bhp/ton of 280ish and 185 sticky tyres and put me against a 280ish bhp/ton hot hatch with 225 sticky tyres. How will they
compare?
I think i can out brake and corner faster than the tin top due to mass. Ut faster corners and straights?
On track i often wonder that i push my £7k car to its limit and therefore keep up with far more modern and powerful cars. Are they just not trying as
hard?!?
Anyone owned both?
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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daniel mason
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| posted on 15/5/16 at 09:56 PM |
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Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single
seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf
We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs
[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]
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bi22le
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| posted on 15/5/16 at 10:15 PM |
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The megablade must be 400bhp/ton and 215 stickies.
A good way of comparing though. I guess the weight just does make the difference.
Single seaters dont count, you can't have them on track days! !
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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daniel mason
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| posted on 15/5/16 at 10:27 PM |
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The other 7's were also ahead of almost anything other than race cars and radicals
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hizzi
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 06:18 AM |
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i provide recovery at race meetings and have watched lots of racing over the years, for me in the dry a bec will beat most things, in the damp the big
hp 4wd cars take over due to cornering. a well sorted duratec 7 etc will mix it up all day long.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 07:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single
seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf
We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs
[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]
Number 8 looked odd, a Reliant Kitten buried in all sorts of better kit (at least on the face of it). Then a quick search reveals a Honda S2000
engine!! How much do kittens weigh, about 500 kilos? 
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40inches
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 07:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Scroll down to page 21 for a good summary. Same track,(Anglesey national double lap) same conditions/ day
And this is a fairly power hungry track. Terry everall is mighty quick though in a 7. But look at the times.the 3 of us up top are all in single
seaters, then the radicals
http://www.tsl-timing.com/file/?f=sprint/2016/161781.pdf
We were absolutely miles ahead of even the very fastest Porsches etc. See 61 and 611 in a gt3 rs
[Edited on 15/5/16 by daniel mason]
Number 8 looked odd, a Reliant Kitten buried in all sorts of better kit (at least on the face of it). Then a quick search reveals a Honda S2000
engine!! How much do kittens weigh, about 500 kilos?
I believe he is on this Forum
This is him I think. unijacko67
[Edited on 16-5-16 by 40inches]
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 07:56 AM |
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Weight is everything when it comes to circuit speed. I've had a good few tin top track cars and none of them came close to any seven.
When we used to take The Life Taker on track days it was like when you see LMP1 car passing GT's at Lemans, we would be overtaking people while
doing a cool down lap in 6th at the end of a run.
One of the moments that convinced me to build a car was when a mate bought his dad's road going Westfield to a track day, even in full soft
summer touring spec it was still massively quicker than our stripped out track car.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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nick205
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 08:27 AM |
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IIRC a Leon Cupra R is 225bhp - quite a lot for a hot hatch Again IIRC it used the same VAG motor as an Audi S3 although didn't have the
same pseudo 4WD transmission.
I had a Leon TDI 150bhp for a while, it was no slouch, but economical on long journeys with a little right foot restraint.
[Edited on 16/5/16 by nick205]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 09:06 AM |
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The kitten is highly developed by Andrew jackson. And is rapid
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hXYbLt2S6dg
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 09:09 AM |
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And the jedi. Skip to 10 minutes for me to actually start!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQGNd4FIVLg
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marco
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 11:58 AM |
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Reading with interest, what are peoples thoughts on things like Supercharged Lotus Exige's performance compared to the sevens and heavier tin
tops as they fall between the very light sevens and heavy tin tops ?
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daniel mason
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 12:17 PM |
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A lot of it is driver dependant and the thing with a 7 is you need to be a very very good pilot to get the best from them.therefore hardly any (if any
at all) can drive them anywhere near there potential.
I've known many people think they are extremely fast on track,who have entered sprints and been 5+ seconds behind others in similar cars in just
1 lap.
I can only imagine the circuit racers are another step up again so in reality the limiting factor is generally the driver and setup of the car!
Now all I need is to learn how to drive the jedi properly!
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nick205
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 01:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
A lot of it is driver dependant and the thing with a 7 is you need to be a very very good pilot to get the best from them.therefore hardly any (if any
at all) can drive them anywhere near there potential.
I've known many people think they are extremely fast on track,who have entered sprints and been 5+ seconds behind others in similar cars in just
1 lap.
I can only imagine the circuit racers are another step up again so in reality the limiting factor is generally the driver and setup of the car!
Now all I need is to learn how to drive the jedi properly!
Fair point - some years ago I went on an Elise driving day at Thruxton. A driver briefing followed by two sets of four laps. Being me I thought I
was Schumacher on track - until the instructor took me out and showed me what the car was really capable of. I'll be honest and say I felt a
little wobbly afterwards!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 02:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
i provide recovery at race meetings and have watched lots of racing over the years, for me in the dry a bec will beat most things, in the damp the big
hp 4wd cars take over due to cornering. a well sorted duratec 7 etc will mix it up all day long.
Very much so in the wet. The only time in autosolos that i competed in my Nova and beaten the usually faster caterfields (or their drivers) is when
its been wet.
I also caught and past countless kits on a very wet brands. I even got caught and commented on by their own video uploads
https://youtu.be/SnSZ8DGXxuM?t=44
Mistral Motorsport
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bi22le
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| posted on 16/5/16 at 06:46 PM |
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All interesting points.
Regarding lotis exige, I shared about 4 laps with one at bedford. I caught him and then stuck with him until he went onto the pits. I would say he was
trying reasonably hard but nowhere near the limit of the car.
The fastest tin tops I can remember were a couple of endurance E36 M3s at brands. They were on slicks and pushing very hard. They must of been lapping
high 40s.
On track days its very much driver dependent and if your not racing or timing then its just a case of do you enjoy driving it I guess. When I drove my
mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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loggyboy
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 12:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
When I drove my mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.
Big power, crap tyres or wet? Ive rarely had issues on mine unless it was either of the last two those.
Mistral Motorsport
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daniel mason
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 06:29 AM |
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Biz, your obviously a young-ish lad. I'd get the basic safety gear. And enter a javelin sprint somewhere like Blyton where you can push hard!
I tested at one early season,traveled over the day before and stayed on site with loads of the other lads (there was at least 3 other kits from
Kent)
It was really well run.loads of runs and great guys/girls competing. The competition was obviously nothing like a British/msa event but it was really
enjoyable. It'll give you a good idea of where you are when the clock is ticking!
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bi22le
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 07:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
When I drove my mates 182 it was a right blast. Painful having to wait with the FWD traction so maybe a RWD tin top would be fun.
Big power, crap tyres or wet? Ive rarely had issues on mine unless it was either of the last two those.
Stock power and sticky tyres. I jumped straight from my striker into that.
In my striker im 3/4 throttle or more as i exit away from an apex. I was not able to do this with the 182.
Its just the FWD RWD argument. With a refined driving style in sure average corner speeds can be increased.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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bi22le
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 07:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
Biz, your obviously a young-ish lad. I'd get the basic safety gear. And enter a javelin sprint somewhere like Blyton where you can push hard!
I tested at one early season,traveled over the day before and stayed on site with loads of the other lads (there was at least 3 other kits from
Kent)
It was really well run.loads of runs and great guys/girls competing. The competition was obviously nothing like a British/msa event but it was really
enjoyable. It'll give you a good idea of where you are when the clock is ticking!
Youngish at 33 I guess!
I have looked into sprinting before. I fancy circuit racing more but certainly understand the feeling of competition. The difference when i was
karting was huge between testing and race days.
The nerves and buzz to see your name on a timing sheet is massive.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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lsdweb
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 08:01 AM |
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Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for
the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.
Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.
Wyn
[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]
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loggyboy
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 08:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by lsdweb
Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for
the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.
Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.
Wyn
[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]
But also on that same example, the top production car (new shape Mini) was only 9secs off the pace of the megabusa.
And the road going kit winner(a BEC) wase only 3 secs quicker than the same Mini.
Mistral Motorsport
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lsdweb
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 08:40 AM |
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But also on that same example, the top production car (new shape Mini) was only 9secs off the pace of the megabusa.
And the road going kit winner(a BEC) wase only 3 secs quicker than the same Mini.
That's true. I think if you listed the cars in the order you think they would finish then looked at the times then there would be quite a few
surprises! A lot comes down to driver talent / ability. I rxkon a decent driver in my car would go at least 4 seconds quicker!
[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]
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phelpsa
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 09:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by lsdweb
Have a look at the recent Llandow sprint results - dry in the afternoon for
the timed runs. I was car 86 in my road rally spec Clio. Have a look at Adam's times (car 70) - an extremely well driven Westfield.
Tyres make a huge difference - the recent changes to MSA regs on 1B tyres I think have widened the gap between the road going and mod prod cars.
Wyn
[Edited on 17/5/16 by lsdweb]
But also on that same example, the top production car (new shape Mini) was only 9secs off the pace of the megabusa.
And the road going kit winner(a BEC) wase only 3 secs quicker than the same Mini.
That mini was a very well prepped car being driven very enthusiastically! It appeared (and sounded) to be pretty grunty. That was a genuinely
competitive car, driving very near the records, whereas I was still 3.5secs off the class record and Toby about 5secs off his.
A good like for like saloon car versus kit would probably be Matt Hillams record in the old SBD Westfield vs Colin Satchells record in the 205.
Similar levels of development, very good drivers taking class records everywhere, Matt did a 72.5 whereas Colin only a 78.2.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 17/5/16 at 10:43 AM |
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Ian parr seems to have got to grips with Bradley hobdays Jedi rather quickly!
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