coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 01:30 AM |
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Category B write off of tin top for no obvious reason
Was recently in a rear end nudge (my fault) at low speed. My car is a ladder chassis Hilux and the damage to mine was just the front bumper and a
slight bend to the bumper support brackets (also mounting point for 2 of the 4 body mount bushes) which are welded to the chassis legs. These are so
lightly bent they have not bent the body at all and the main chassis legs are fine. They could be cut off and replaced, or just bent back with a
little heat. Nothing beyond a decent body shop.
However the insurance has already classified it as a cat B writeoff, without asking for more details or seeing more than a few photos.
I'm genuinely baffled and have requested clarification and raised a complaint, as it's utterly illogical. I could get
behind cat n, or even s, but not b.
Anyone ever fought a cat b?
[Edited on 16/12/19 by coyoteboy]
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 07:28 AM |
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11 years ago (time flies) I rolled my spitfire after sliding on a diesel patch. While I was being attended to in an ambulance, another car did teh
same...
Anyway, the car was a write off, but as is common with classics, there is an option to buy-back. The insurance company gave it a cat B, fair enough,
but then changed it to C so it could be released back to me. So it seems they can just change the category.... or could. Especially if they have not
had it inspected, could be them being lazy.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 10:22 AM |
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I had opposite. Tried arguing a CAT B put on one of my Novas, only need a new front cross member, (so defo a uneconomic repair, but not so bad it
needed jigging or anything) and I wanted to keep it as I had converted to a redtop and had done loads of work on the chassis (stitch welded engine bay
and mods to suit the larger engine). Sadly they refused - point blank.
Only bonus was they never offered me scrap on it so I stripped it bare and made them collect it, recovery guy didnt even query it - guess it was
always gonna end up at a breakers so they didnt care when they picked up a shell only.
[Edited on 16-12-19 by loggyboy]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 12:35 PM |
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You'd have to see what they say is the issue. If it's just the damage you say and the chassis is still straight I'd perhaps take it
to an MOT place and get their comments on the required repairs and hit them with that. Otherwise, buy it back and fix it yourself. The assessor maybe
a idiot who thinks the chassis needs to go on a jig...
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Dick
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 02:24 PM |
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Now days any damage to a chassis leg or a mounting point on the chassis they will award a cat B stupid yes but iv never seen them change it for a
lesser category. Had the same on my land cruiser last year
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steve m
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 07:37 PM |
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I work for an accident claims company (as Dick knows  )
The above scenario also works in reverse, a Customer I delivered a brand new Bentley Continental to, at £1250 a day
as a replacement car for his Maserati Quattroporte £100k worth
He had the Bentley for just over 5 months, at 1250 a day !! and his Maserati that had been in a serious accident,
and the left hand side of the car smashed so badly you could not even say what type of car it was, also the passenger side
B piller was about 6" from the drivers seat, the car was a mess, yet repaired ???? I presume a new shell, and hope so !
Just the cost of the Bentley replacement car came to around around £190k without the repair to his car, or any medical claims
yet my customer had his car back, all nice and shiney, and probably worth nothing due to the accident
Insurance companies, are a rule to there own, and some of the other horror stories ive been told, from customers, you would
not believe, except, you would, as its just a huge great scam, and someone somewhere is milking the system, and our
pockets with inflated Insurance quotes, to justify these incredible claims
Now aside to the above, some Insurance companies have a more pragmatic view of the salvage side of things, and certainly at this time of year, when
its dark, wet, and miserable, and more accidents happen/occur,
These companies look at the repair cost, vehicle storage costs, as all body shops are maxed out at this time, replacement vehicles to those that are
due them (not every one is), once all of these are calculated it is quite simple to see why a car worth
say 10k but has 5k worth of damage is written off, also Diesels, are now out of favour, and just for that reason, so ive been
informed, will be scrapped/written off regardless, I believe this has come from those muppets in Parliament
Steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/12/19 at 10:05 PM |
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Hmm some thouhts both ways here but I suspect I'll lose the argument. Got some letters to read when I get home. I could fully understand B if it
was twisted, but frankly to take this car off the road (newly rebuilt suspension, steering, new tyres all-round, refurbed wheels, body in otherwise
fine fettle, engine running well, low mileage. Binning it is a travesty.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 07:03 AM |
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hmm I think I'd still buy it back and either fix it yourself or get a garage to do the welding if the body mountings can't be bent back
but tbh a bit of heat from a torch and they will bend back... Hilux's are very cool if you look after it you should get many years of use out
it. My cousin ran into the back of a car with his when the brakes failed and bent the front bumper quite a bit so we chucked away that and scratch
built a new bull bar instead this is it here... why not use the opportunity to enhance your truck instead of just replacing the stock stuff, bike
rack, steps, towbar??
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 09:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
hmm I think I'd still buy it back and either fix it yourself or get a garage to do the welding if the body mountings can't be bent back
but tbh a bit of heat from a torch and they will bend back... Hilux's are very cool if you look after it you should get many years of use out
it. My cousin ran into the back of a car with his when the brakes failed and bent the front bumper quite a bit so we chucked away that and scratch
built a new bull bar instead this is it here... why not use the opportunity to enhance your truck instead of just replacing the stock stuff, bike
rack, steps, towbar??
Only problem with that is a Cat B cannot ever go back on the road, only only S and N can (formerly C and D)
[Edited on 17/12/19 by ianhurley20]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 12:07 PM |
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From the Adrain Flux website -
Category B write-offs represent serious damage to a vehicle which could include body or parts damage that is beyond repair and should not re-appear on
the roads. However if the vehicle is of significant value & either financial or sentimental, then you may think it is worth repairing to make it
road worthy once more. Even if you want to get your car back on the road, you are faced with the potential block of insurance providers refusing you
cover.
Many insurance companies will immediately refuse any customer looking to insure category A or B vehicles due to the severity of its write-off. At
Adrian Flux, we understand how important cars are to their owners and that not all write-offs mean that the car is unsalvageable.
Although competitor insurers may view the repair cost to your vehicle as not cost-effective, we understand how important a vehicle can mean to its
owner and are aware of the time and effort involved in making the vehicle road worthy again. So if you have a classic Cadillac involved in a crash, or
a modern Mitsubishi with flood damage Adrian Flux can find an insurance policy to suit you and your cherished car.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 06:20 PM |
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Yep, they've already said they're not interested in re-insuring it and CatB will see them expecting it to be crushed, not bought back.
We'll see. I was considering a nice plate winch bumper but that would actually have bent the chassis
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 07:22 PM |
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They have agreed to send out an assessor, which is fair enough, and better than I expected.
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SJ
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 07:26 PM |
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quote:
Yep, they've already said they're not interested in re-insuring it and CatB will see them expecting it to be crushed, not bought back.
We'll see. I was considering a nice plate winch bumper but that would actually have bent the chassis
Maybe it could re-emerge as a born again Dutton
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 07:28 PM |
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Probably what the in-house engineer was planning on doing with it when it got recovered
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myke pocock
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| posted on 17/12/19 at 11:00 PM |
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I bought a Cat B MX 5 for £2200. I recon the cost to repair if it had been put in to a decent garage would have been more than the book value of the
car (35,000 miles and good nick) I repaired it for £350!!!! to a good standard but with second hand parts, a mate who sprayed it and a pattern
mirror. Say no more. How much does a good body shop charge per hour let alone the parts at full price.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 18/12/19 at 07:44 AM |
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Down here a replacement wing on a car is about £1000 for an insurance claim.
In terms of labour £40ph is cheap for a bodyshop. Local Audi garages charge well over £100ph for mechanical work.
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steve m
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| posted on 18/12/19 at 09:12 AM |
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As I said in my earlier post, the damage part of a claim is one of the lowest costs to the insurance company,
as there many many other factors, Garage availability, car storage if having to wait, car replacement, medical claims
Legal fees, etc etc
I work in the Accident management trade, and can assure you that just having someone rear end you and scrape the bumper
in reality will cost the other insurance company thousands
Most Insurance companies do not handle the claim any more, they broker it out to a claims company (like mine)
Steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 18/12/19 at 12:54 PM |
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Yeah this isn't a cost issue, they know I wanted to buy it back and had already given me a price assuming CatN, and the cost of repair would be
carried by me - we had agreed this would be a reasonable route and they were willing to. Then it came back that their internal assessor had
CatB'd it as structural, should be crushed recommendation, plus no-reinsurance offered. And many I've spoken to won't insure a CatB
writeoff even after repair.
All of their costs are already incurred, they lose nothing by selling me the scrap as CatN, and my original valuation was very low as I was happy to
just get it back and cover the repair myself. If they B it, I'll be asking for market value which is ~1.5K more.
I've had a claim go through Kindertons (claim handler), on the receiving end of a hit and run bump, a few years ago. It was like dealing with
two deaf grandparents as intermediaries between me and a child - no-one seemed to fully understand anything, they kept miscommunicating everything
eventually it turned out my insurance company was insuring the 3rd party too, and Kindertons were representing both, presumably with compounded costs.
Third party sold their car within 4 days of hitting me, so they lost all evidence despite me reporting it immediately. Eventually I had to rant to the
insurer directly and refuse to work with the claims company, the insurer then accepted my claim, moved it from 50:50 to a no-cost repair with no NCB
or claim recorded, within 3 days, as the debacle had gone on so long. Full side re-spray was clearly cheaper than endlessly faffing with the handler
lol.
[Edited on 18/12/19 by coyoteboy]
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chillis
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| posted on 18/12/19 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Was recently in a rear end nudge (my fault) at low speed. My car is a ladder chassis Hilux and the damage to mine was just the front bumper and a
slight bend to the bumper support brackets (also mounting point for 2 of the 4 body mount bushes) which are welded to the chassis legs. These are so
lightly bent they have not bent the body at all and the main chassis legs are fine. They could be cut off and replaced, or just bent back with a
little heat. Nothing beyond a decent body shop.
However the insurance has already classified it as a cat B writeoff, without asking for more details or seeing more than a few photos.
I'm genuinely baffled and have requested clarification and raised a complaint, as it's utterly illogical. I could get
behind cat n, or even s, but not b.
Anyone ever fought a cat b?
[Edited on 16/12/19 by coyoteboy]
The whole category system was created by the car insurance industry to abuse and that's what they do.
Anything with structural damage can only be repaired by their "approved repairer's" Private individuals will only get to repair non
structural's
The problem is uneconomic should be separate from repairability.
Instead if it can't be repaired at the approved repair shop either because its too damaged or too expensive then it gets cat b'd.
Part of this is because they are concerned a private individual will repair a structurally damaged car that is then involved in another incident and
the insurance company gets sued for letting it go back on the road.
Add to this the low residual value of pre Euro 6 diesel vehicles, and it's no surprise they have given Cat b.
If they haven't listed it yet you could withdraw the claim and repair yourself, but that would be at your cost.
Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 19/12/19 at 04:04 PM |
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Apparently you cannot withdraw the claim and have them "forget" the write-off, I tried
I asked if their repair shops could cut and weld steel plate. They said yes, of course. I asked why they thought they couldn't cut and weld this
steel plate. They didn't know.
[Edited on 19/12/19 by coyoteboy]
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luke2152
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| posted on 20/12/19 at 12:11 AM |
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I had an engine fire a few years back and I used the recovery that came with my insurance. Despite me saying I didn't intend to claim they
wrote it off as cat B. They also didn't want to give it back to me saying they weren't allowed to and although I eventually did get it
back (after paying the recovery fee) I was unable to put it back on the road.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 20/12/19 at 08:14 AM |
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On another note -
I wonder how many have looked at the Approved methods of car repair these days. The days of just welding on repair panels are long gone, I have some
body shop manuals for current VW's written by VW and due to the use of hot forged body panels, structural adhesives & the use of specialised
spot welders even replacing something as common as a sill is now a major undertaking.
This is why my current tin top is kept in the garage every night & washed once a week... just can't afford to let it rust ever
If it was involved in a prang tbh I'd rather just get a replacement car than have it repaired
[Edited on 20/12/19 by Mr Whippy]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 15/1/20 at 01:37 AM |
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A quick update...
After a Christmas break the insurance company sent out an independent claim inspector, of some extended experience. A really nice, but no-nonsense
chap who's clearly seen a lot of damaged cars. He took a torch to the under-bonnet, chassis areas, took photos, asked a bunch of questions, took
a look at the bumper I'd pulled off, looked over the rest of the car for valuation and then said "well I have absolutely no idea why
they've classified it as a B, it's barely an N" if at all". He suggested someone at the insurance company would be getting a
strike against their name and he expected he'd be changing the category for me when he finished the report, but I'm not counting my
chickens until they're no longer in egg form - I'm sure he'll have conversations with the original decision maker first.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/1/20 at 12:20 PM |
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oh well might work out. Just a lazy inspector at the start, you get with house valuations too, seen them just sit in their car and write their report
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 15/1/20 at 01:06 PM |
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This entire process (prior to me complaining) was done by 5 photos and nothing else, valuation included.
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