Litemoth
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 01:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Just been to my local sandwich shop and the young and well spoken lad that served me had to use a calculator to add up £4.50 and 80p.
Bloody hell, I was really shocked 
Edited to correct my terrible mistake in the title.... 
[Edited on 4/7/13 by Jasper]
Maybe he was new to his job, had made a mistake with change previously, got a rocketing off the boss/grumpy customer and so thought "bugger
this, I'll put everything through the calculator twice in future"
That is, his confidence had gone.
I've certainly been there in my younger days.
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Slater
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 01:15 PM |
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The oil industry work in API unit or US units so it's feet, inches, lbs, gallons etc.
I have a Lufkin tape measure marked up in feet, with inches on one side and metric feet on the other (1ft split in 10). Useful for measuring
pipes and then adding the lengths up. like 30.75 ft + 31.15 ft.
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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morcus
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 02:19 PM |
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As said a lot of industry is in imperial, but its something you can pickup on the job, teaching time is precious so its a waste to use it teaching how
to use the many non SI systems. The current system is more weighted to looking things up than committing to memory but this isn't a bad thing if
done properly so they learn the correct process for finding things out. I've worked with a lot of people who've caused serious problems
because they though they knew best rather than looking things up.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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deezee
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
Now I don't work in an engineering scenario - so this is an honest question - but is anyone still working to imperial dimensions in the UK in
manufacturing/engineering?
A few years ago I worked in a warehouse for a few months picking loads for DIY stores - and 8'x4' was 'actually' 2440mm X
1220mm....
The big primary industry plants, that are still going, are traditional and were designed and erected in imperial days. So when you repair it, its
imperial.
Everything has metric measurements on it, but its tooled. cut and profiled in imperial. Problem is the metric people like to round off to the nearest
metric size. You round off enough and the whole design is incorrect.
So when I go to a plant to measure up, I know a 90mm pipe isn't 90mm its 88.9mm, because really its 3" nominal bore. I know if it
measures up around 150mm centres, its really 6 inch centres and you round off for 5 centres, by the end you're out a half inch out.
I don't have to work in imperial, I prefer metric (don't like fractions). But I need to appreciate that pretty much the whole UK is still
designed in imperial sizes, its just marked up in metric because it has to be.
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me!
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 03:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by deezee
My humble and limited experience leads me to conclude that they don't commit anything to memory and only know enough to pass a test that poorly
reflects real world applications.
Its great knowing loads of algebra and getting an A in geography and media studies, but most don't even know imperial dimensions and are unable
to think on their feet. Oh well.
As a recent-ish (2007) graduate, this is about spot on. I realised that as the world and his wife were doing degrees, I needed to stand out a bit. So
to me this meant a) MEng rather than BEng and b) I had to get a first. The MEng bit is easy, just do four years rather than three, but the first is a
bit more tricky. I meticulously went through all the past papers, and any advice about the format of the exams (eg. six questions, one on each topic,
answer four) and worked out what I needed to do to get the mark required. This basically set my revision, which I treated as a job for the few weeks
between the end of coursework and the start of exams. Once I had done an exam I was pretty good at forgetting all about it and moving on to the next
one.
My favourite moment was in a final year advanced combustion chemistry lecture, one lad put his hand up and asked what a reciprocating engine was. I
nearly crapped myself laughing.
Unfortunately it is a bit of a game, I could have done an apprenticeship and I would be better at my job but I'd be paid £10-15k less a year and
would have missed out on uni, which were some of the best times of my life. I had an exit interview when I left and told them I thought the course was
a load of crap, but thanks for the first. Two weeks after my last exam, and on the day of my results, I got a job. So it worked 
I disagree about the imperial bit though! And I can add up
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mcerd1
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 03:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by deezee
I don't have to work in imperial, I prefer metric (don't like fractions). But I need to appreciate that pretty much the whole UK is still
designed in imperial sizes, its just marked up in metric because it has to be.
well put, and if anyone thinks it sounds crazy then you should
see what the americans have come up with
our old imperial 'Ton' was 2240 lbs (aka: 20 CWT or 160 stone) which is about 1016 kg - so very close to the metric Tonne and a small
error if you got the wrong one
but the americans 'short ton' is only 2000 lbs or 907kg  big room for error
ok 2000 is easier to add up than 2240, but why not just go the whole way and make it 1000kg ?
[Edited on 4/7/2013 by mcerd1]
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Fred W B
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| posted on 4/7/13 at 05:20 PM |
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What's fun is if say you and a young engineer are discussing a sample part or piece of material and someone asks exactly what a particular
dimension is, as they look for the tape or rule you squint at the part and say for example, "recon that's 76mm" and when they
measure it they are amazed it is exactly that. Of course it was just a good guess that the original design dimension was 3"
Cheers
Fred W B
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 10:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tims31
quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by deezee
most don't even know imperial dimensions
Now I don't work in an engineering scenario - so this is an honest question - but is anyone still working to imperial dimensions in the UK in
manufacturing/engineering?
A few years ago I worked in a warehouse for a few months picking loads for DIY stores - and 8'x4' was 'actually' 2440mm X
1220mm....
Yes, if you work with any American company in engineering then thats all they work in. Boeing in particular...
This was the cause of a very close call a few years ago when a british company sent drawings in metric and the american company building the product
were working in imperial.
Also I was taught in college (engineering) that Centimetres do not exist to an engineer. Its always Millimeters and metres. Again I remember hearing
of an issue that was caused by this misunderstanding when the drawing was in Millimetres and the manufacturers worked in Centimetres increasing the
scale of said product by a factor of 10
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 10:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Vindi_andy
This was the cause of a very close call a few years ago when a british company sent drawings in metric and the american company building the product
were working in imperial.
another common error is 'Thou' and the american 'Mil' both meaning 0.001" but often confused with mm
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dhutch
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 11:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
Now I don't work in an engineering scenario - so this is an honest question - but is anyone still working to imperial dimensions in the UK in
manufacturing/engineering?
A few years ago I worked in a warehouse for a few months picking loads for DIY stores - and 8'x4' was 'actually' 2440mm X
1220mm....
I think, as have been proved, it very much depends what industry you work in.
My work (Design Engineer for JCB) is almost exclusively metric, there are a few bits where its clear that the main boom pivot is 63.5mm dia is
historical, and very very occasionally when you looking at legacy parts because someone said "have a look what we did back in ... on the ...
because that was a bit like what your suggesting" there are in inches (an usually hand drawn, microfilmed, and the digitised to get them onto
the plm system) but everything else is metric. Other than the use of BSP hose fittings.
That said, you have to have a vague handle the old systems, for when you boss or suppler asks 'could we move it 6inchs that way?
Which as my dad works in mixed units, I have picked up. I also tend to estimate large lengths in imperial, again i guess from my childhood and if im
transferring lengths when rough-cutting timber for a fence/shed/whatever i'll use whatever comes to hand first on the tape for the lenght in
question.
I have been known to shout out '5mm short of 10ft' before now when measuring out which raised a chuckle form the bloke I was working with,
who was already amused by my mixed units.
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
I always find it amusing when you hand a shop assistant the extra change when purchasing something ....
They they count out the 80p change, and hand you back the 20p.... Genius.
Yeah, sometimes I do wonder, but again its because they have put it into the till already, its more work to change it to include the extra 20p.
quote:
Originally posted by TimC people can't 'annualise' weekly figures
Is the even a word? I think prehaps it is not!
Daniel
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dhutch
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 11:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by me!As a recent-ish (2007) graduate, this is about spot on. I realised that as the world and his wife were doing
degrees, I needed to stand out a bit. So to me this meant a) MEng rather than BEng and b) I had to get a first.
My favorite moment was in a final year advanced combustion chemistry lecture, one lad put his hand up and asked what a reciprocating engine was. I
nearly crapped myself laughing.
I have to admit, as someone who graduated in 2010 (fractionally more recently) and who also went got the M.Eng, partly to 'stand out' ,
partly to make employment abroad easier, and partly to simplify the route to being chartered, I went for the the 'Get a middle of the road
2:1' approach.
Partly as being someone not naturally cut out for academia i'm not sure I could have maintained the anal retentiveness, but also because it
freed up time to get out more, enjoy life, see the world, and dick about with car/engines/welders which I think adds to my rounded appeal and target
job sector.
Load knows, but three years on having fallen into a job with my placement company on a good starting wage, done some pretty enjoyable work in the UK
I've just being sent out to one of our Indian sites as a senior to support and manage the engineering team of a project out here, so its not
going too badly so far.
Daniel
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 12:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
I have to admit, as someone who graduated in 2010 (fractionally more recently) and who also went got the M.Eng, partly to 'stand out' ,
partly to make employment abroad easier, and partly to simplify the route to being chartered, I went for the the 'Get a middle of the road
2:1' approach
you lot are making me feel old
I graduated in 2003 with a BEng hons in mech eng (4 years up here) and I was never any good at the academic/science bits (only got a 3rd, should have
worked a bit more and got a 2:2 or maybe a 2:1 with no life at all)
but then I'm quite happy with the more practical side of things and my job suits that
one thing I've always found is that its very rare to get someone who is really good at both the practical and the academic, we did a fair bit of
hands on practical stuff in the workshops and it really showed up the differenct skill sets
...anyway getting back on topic, it can't all be down to the schools some blame has to land with the parents
I'm not just thinking about mental arithmetic or spelling (i.e. not the same as maths and english)
- its the answers they seem to get when they ask kids more general questions about where food comes from and stuff like that that worry me more
[Edited on 5/7/2013 by mcerd1]
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cs3tcr
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 02:49 PM |
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When i was in school here in Canada all i was taught was Metric, at home though everything was in Imperial. When i went to a technical school
following highschool we were taught both Imperial and SI (mm not centimetres). Following techinical school all i used was Imperial as i was working
with pre-1980 British sports cars. Now i'm working for an Engineering firm and we have to produce drawings to the clients specifications, some
clients want Imperial, some want SI, and some of the clients with older buildings and equipment will request imperial even thought their design
standards call for metric. The odd thing for me is, i cant show you with my hands how long 150mm is, yet i can for anything in imperial. Luckily, as
its been stated earlier in this thread, most if not all steel sizes we use are hard converted from imperial to metric, and all piping is made to
imperial sizes, even though it would be called up on drawing as metic (ie 80mm sch 40 pipe would be the same as 3" sch 40).
I would honestly like to get back into using metric as its easier to add up, but i just cant for the life of me look at something and tell you how
long it is in SI.
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Vindi_andy
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| posted on 5/7/13 at 02:59 PM |
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My mum says her sewing teacher said "the difference between a metre and a yard is the length of the frills on a french girls skirt" just
for a bizare way of remembering which was longer, and that was quite a few years ago given I have just turned 40. She said at the time it made her
jealous because it meant french girls had 3 inches more of frills.
Sorry ill let this thread get back on track now
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