They are on about banning NEW IC powered vehicles not petrol... For a few years taking a pre IC banned car and rebuilding it into a kit car might be a
boon to the industry. Fuel will be available for decades, up until 2018 my local specialist garage still sold 4* complete with full fat lead.
I bet we can still build and run IC engines under a classic car scheme for another 30 years. I'll be to old to drive by then.
I'm more worried about banning human drivers than how we power our cars
16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5.
He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.
I cycle to work. When I am coming home in the evenings the pizza delivery boys blast past me on converted electric biles with about three extra
batteries strapped to the cross bar. They do not even pretend to pedal. Which has got me thinking...about a 7 style car with 4 driven wheels from
electric bikes. If kept really light (say sub 300kg) it should be as fast as an electric bike which for around town is fast enough (says a man with a
spreading conviction for doing 24mph!)
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Building: MK indy on the road: Simple airbox..
posted on 16/11/20 at 08:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by David Jenkins
Imagine if the internal combustion engine had never been invented - I often wonder what sort of reaction there would be if someone tried to introduce
petrol-engined cars as a new thing these days!
"What?! You want to put 50 litres of petrol in a metal box and strap it under a passenger-carrying vehicle that will travel at 70mph? With
loads of other vehicles around you? Giving off all sorts of nasty fumes as it goes along? No way!"
[Edited on 15/11/20 by David Jenkins]
Funny thing is that's what happend at the start of the car revoltion.. Steam, electric, and internal combustion were all in the running..
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Building: It is an ex-Locost - it has gone to the IOW!
posted on 16/11/20 at 10:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by Irony
16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5.
He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.
My 'granny charger' plugs into a domestic socket - that will give me a charging rate of about 3KWh. It works out to an input power of 15A,
so you have to be very confident in your socket writing back to the consumer unit! That equates to roughly 20 hours from empty to fully charged.
My proper domestic charger gives 7.2KWh and takes 35A, so that has its own feed from the consumer unit. That will give a full charge in 6 - 7 hours.
However, I rarely let it discharge that far (I've only reached minimum charge once in 3 years). Normally I'm just charging from 40 or 50%
up to 80%.
quote:Originally posted by Irony
16amp socket charges a Tesla to the tune of 18 miles in 8 hours. I know as every time I call a engineer out at work. He arrives at 9 and leaves at 5.
He always, always comments at my measly 16amp socket charging his car only 18 miles. Then he sends me a invoice for £600 a day.
Teslas run about 3 miles per kwh. Your guy is yanking your crank. Or you're mis-hearing him and he's saying 80, which is pretty close to
the real number.
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Building: up the courage for post thirteen thousand and one
posted on 16/11/20 at 05:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by peter030371.
I'm more worried about banning human drivers than how we power our cars
That fear is based on what? Heard of autopilot on planes?
By the time this proposed nonsense comes around, self driving car technology will almost certainly be better than the average driver and maybe all
drivers. A lot of big companies are throwling a poo load of money at this.
I don't like it and am very much a luddite, I won't have an automatic gearbox as I want to decide when to change gear, LOL.
I'll miss the noise, smell and fire of the ICE but mostly likely by then I will be sitting on a wee soaked seat on mobility scooter at the care
home.
£30k+ when you add in the motor controller and batteries!!!
Yes, Batteries take almost half of that budget. You could run a Chevy LS v8 on that budgety for a few years on race gas
With regards to battery legisation:
quote:The ECE R100 approval process involved a first test by KBA concerning the compliance of quality and production systems, followed by the
examination of the characteristics required for the manufacture of lithium batteries for electric vehicles.
After successfully completing the first phase, the second required safety testing to subject lithium batteries to the main stresses found during their
use with vehicles:
Vibration test, 3 hours with variable frequency between 7 and 50Hz
Acceleration test, to simulate the deceleration in case of impact, up to 28G longitudinal and 15G transverse
Crushing test, 100kN = 10 tons laterally
Thermal stress test, from + 60 ° C to – 40 ° C
Fire resistance test, battery exposed to direct flame for 70 seconds reaching 700 ° C
Short circuit test
Test at maximum temperature, operation at 60 ° C
Test of internal security, overload test and over-text
Compliance with electrical safety
That fear is based on what? Heard of autopilot on planes?
Not worried about the tech, it will be safer than humans. But I enjoy driving and fear the day we are not allowed to drive. By then who cares how the
auto-car is powered.
There is a big difference between an aircraft autopilot and a self driving car. An autopilot responds to simple commands and has limited, if any
ability to react to its environment. In fact it is constantly receiving inputs from the pilots. Even so called drones are the same and largely reliant
on ground station input. Trials are just beginning on fully autonomous ‘sense and avoid’ versions.
My Kia has a range of so called driver aids. Frankly, most are terrible! Lane assist: Works ok. As long as the road is well marked and dry. It
doesn’t detect the white lines in damp or wet conditions and many Lincolnshire roads don’t have them. auto emergency brake: triggers when a car is
turning left in front of you and is clear of your carriageway. Didn’t stop me rear-ending a woman who randomly stopped at a junction on a clear road
having already set off! Distance cruise control. It’s great. Until it isn’t! If someone intrudes on the gap between you and the car in front and
there is any sort of closure speed, it jams on the breaks. It’s only a matter of time before I collect someone in the rear.
Yes, these are 2019 Tech and there is a long way to go but my fear is that autonomous cars will introduced before they are fully ready. The boss of
thatcham has already warned of this and the dangers of the semi-autonomous cars that are the stepping stone.
That fear is based on what? Heard of autopilot on planes?
As stated, plane autopilots are a different beast and the level of risk acceptable with a plane full of 300 people vs an average of 2 car occupants
means the risk vs reward tradeoff is very different. Plus, of course, there's only a handful of plane autopilot manufacturers and fewer that are
large enough to do it, vs quite a few very well equipped auto manufacturers and their supply chain.
I can see the safety side of this being forced through and people being taken out of the chain sooner than we expect. Governments and industry are
trying to push the "oh you will be able to relax and be driven, it's a luxury" side of them. And that's because lots of people
hate driving and see it as a chore, or at best see it as a necessary inconvenience. Those of us who enjoy driving will become the minority and
naturally, as our minority view is likely to be seen as less progressive and less safe, we will be removed from the equation.
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Building: McSorley 7+4 with Rover V8 (See avatar for latest
posted on 18/11/20 at 11:26 AM
Hi all,
Just to add my tuppence worth to the discussion on self driving cars...
Speaking as a software engineer, electronics engineer and petrol head, I strongly believe we'll be waiting a very long time (several decades at
least) before cars are fully autonomous. Yes, we have some driver aids already plus Elon Musk would have us believe that full autonomy is just around
the corner. Absolute nonsense though!
What is "around the corner" is a driving scenario that even the most advanced autonomous driving systems (not Tesla btw) aren't
equipped to handle whereas a human driver would handle such a situation pretty well. Where humans tend to fall down is in areas such as tiredness,
inattention and not taking account of road and weather conditions and those are certainly areas where autonomy has a role to play. (eg. detecting
someone falling asleep and automatically pulling the vehicle over safely)
Coming back to Tesla/Musk, don't you find it interesting that it is easier to land two spent rocket stages simultaneously than it is to create a
fully autonomous vehicle?
It's not rocket science....it's much harder than that!
Personally I can't see the point in getting more cars onto overcrowded roads, especially empty cars. So many cars only have one person in them
already it's laughable. I'm not a motorcyclist, but if we're really just trying to move single people around motorcycles do seem a
better option. I'm sure if the manufacturer's put their minds to it we'd have motorcycles with better weather protection for damper
colder climates.
For those that may have seen a Renault Twizy, I don't mean that. IMHO that didn't take off sales wise, because it didn't actually
provide any proper answers. IIRC they were expensive as well.
Encouraging employers to provide staff changing rooms and showers on-site would be another step forward. Before we moved premises we had a changing
room and shower at work. It made cycling to work feasible. Yes you got there hot and sweaty, but a shower and fresh set of clothes soon sorted that
and you're VERY wide awake for the day ahead.
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Building: My car is history now, burnt out,
posted on 19/11/20 at 10:51 AM
I believe that public transport should be an awful lot cheaper, and more reliable
My Daughter in law spends 10k a year to get to and from work on trains to London, and that represents 20% of her earnings just to get to work ?
Well it did, as she works from home this year, and has saved a shed load!
My take on Electric cars, is that Hybrids are the way forward, Petrol /Electric seem to be the best option, although the Prius is possibly the worst
car ive ever ever driven! and as ive said before, i "used to work delivering brand new cars" the only fully electric car ive driven many
times, is the Nissan leaf, and thankfully the longest drive i had to do was around 100 miles, just as well, as at motorway speeds it wouldnt of done
many more,
I believe the figures say 160-180 mile range, but ive never experienced any thing close to those figures
Imho electric vehicles need to have a minimum range of at least 250 miles before being introduced on our roads in 2030
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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Building: It is an ex-Locost - it has gone to the IOW!
posted on 19/11/20 at 11:43 AM
The Nissan Leaf is not a good example - it's mileage estimates are rubbish, they lose miles rapidly if you go fast, and there are problems with
repeated fast charging (a.k.a. RapidGate) . My e-Niro has a quoted range of 285 miles, but with constant 70 mph motorway driving with heating on, in
rain and wind, that drops to 225 miles roughly. If I am going cross-country at the usual 50 - 60mph (which most people average, whatever car) in
summer I can achieve somewhere around 300 miles (I have done this).
A very well-known YouTuber's recent video shows him driving a Kia e-Niro from Canterbury to Lands End, then on the John O'Groats, then
back to Canterbury - in one weekend. He was driving most of the time at normal speeds for whatever road he was on. Recharging as he went, of course,
plus an overnight stop, but it was a hell of an achievement.
Another group of people have got over 600 miles from an e-Niro like this - but that was at 25 - 30 mph constant, with all accessories off. On a test
track, of course!
The nearest equivalent to a petrol/diesel car is the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. Unfortunately there are very few cars available, and none in this
country. Also there are hardly any hydrogen stations in the UK. They've got a long way to go yet...
quote:Originally posted by nick205
Autonomous cars?
My personal view here BTW
Personally I can't see the point in getting more cars onto overcrowded roads, especially empty cars. So many cars only have one person in them
already it's laughable. I'm not a motorcyclist, but if we're really just trying to move single people around motorcycles do seem a
better option. I'm sure if the manufacturer's put their minds to it we'd have motorcycles with better weather protection for damper
colder climates.
For those that may have seen a Renault Twizy, I don't mean that. IMHO that didn't take off sales wise, because it didn't actually
provide any proper answers. IIRC they were expensive as well.
Nah not IMO, motorcycles have 33x the fatality rate of cars because of a host of reasons, not least the lack of protection. Sure most of the time I
move one person with my car, but most days I move one person, then pick up another and go somewhere. Most weekends I fill it with stuff to go do
sports. Given how much cheaper motorbikes are both on fuel and purchasing, if there was any real user base it would be expending rapidly already due
to austerity and easy availability of moped/scooter types.
Self driving cars will not be owned by people, it'll just be a rented fleet like taxis - you'll hail one when you want one, not own it and
have it sat on your drive, and at that stage they'll start to ban human drivers because of their increased risk. That in turn will simplify the
autonomy process. It's certainly not progressing as fast as I expected back when I was doing robotics research, but it's ramping up now
and there's some very big companies with very deep pockets looking to generate the next disruptive technology. As these things become closer to
reality, governments will start to adapt infrastructure to help them become reality.
