Just looking at my phone app, in the last 4 months I've done 3742 miles, using a total of 1018.5 kw, and that has cost a total of £162.96, no
road tax either to pay and the insurance is less than my VW Up was.
I know you've been vocal of keeping cars long term in the past. How long do you expect to keep the leaf? Do you expect to run it til its no
longer viable or is there an option to re-battery them to keep them going indefinitly?
If your comparing to the up surely a 10 yo Up would have held more value than a 10 yo leaf with a semi knackered battery? So would depreciation or
replacement cost come into your cost comparisons too?
That's very car dependant, most data shows EV batteries are *significantly* outlasting their warranty, more so if you only use them sporadically
for short journeys.
True. I was reading earlier that there's a bit of noise coming from vw ID owners where battery range is decaying much quicker than it should.
Wonder if they've been fudging the numbers again
3) New cars are abominably expensive.
4) No point getting an expensive compromise, if you already have a perfectly usable set of older cars and can fix them yourself.
You could pretty much have skipped the rest of your post, if you're able to fix it yourself & you're happy to run older vehicles then
it can hardly come as a shock that buying anything new is going to cost bundles more, plus you're never going to find one vehicle that does the
job of the other 3 - that's why you have 3 in the first place!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
3) New cars are abominably expensive.
4) No point getting an expensive compromise, if you already have a perfectly usable set of older cars and can fix them yourself.
You could pretty much have skipped the rest of your post, if you're able to fix it yourself & you're happy to run older vehicles then
it can hardly come as a shock that buying anything new is going to cost bundles more, plus you're never going to find one vehicle that does the
job of the other 3 - that's why you have 3 in the first place!
This is true, but plenty of folk assume a new car is borderline - it's not, it's miles off. It shocks me how much people spend on them.
Yeah but how many people actually buy new cars? Id hazard a guess a high percentage are on pcp or pch and never actually 'own' them.
EV's even more so as they are so expensive.
Photo Archive
Building: miles of wild uncontrolled grins
posted on 5/10/21 at 04:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by russbost
"what is the current drain? Is three phase required?" - max current draw is 7kW, so it's a simple large dia. armoured cable to the
charge point outside - it's something I did miss out of my costing above, but then it's there for life (as long as you live in that house)
costs around £5-600 after the £350 Government grant
Ouch - can it be self installed - LOL
"Some of the new chargers are 350kw" - yes, but they won't be charging batteries at anything like that capacity, at least not yet, I
had the Kona hooked up to one at the w/e, max draw I saw was 75kW
"let's take 26million cars, 13million on the road and 10% charging at anyone time?
30kw x 1.3million - nearly 4GW so an average sized nuclear power station - if I have got some of the maths right" it's not so much your
maths that's wrong, more the assumption of the amount of power, how & when. Most EV's will be charging overnight when there is huge
spare grid capacity, hence why you can buy electricity for 5p a unit,, they'll be hooked up to home chargers & will only be drawing around
6kW (they rarely charge at full capacity depending on how full the battery is). Not everyone is going to be charging every night, so a more realistic
figure might be around 7 million (most people will charge only once or twice a week) at 6kw which, oddly also comes out at just over 4gW - however
this is ONLY going to be that sort of draw overnight &, for most people, for only a few hours when that spare capacity would be available,
(10,000 miles at 4 miles to the kW is around 48kW a week, so 2 x 4 hour charges) daytime draw would be waaay less
thank you - I am genuinely interested in EV and have a Polestar on the potentials list - not low cost outlay but maybe a realistic proposition if
the aim is to tax us high mileage drivers out of our diesels.
The above figures are also based on ALL cars being electric which we are currently at around 1.5% of that figure, or around 4% if you include all
PHEV's as well
- future state of many more cars and the infrastructure is what I was thinking - certainly the drive (excuse the pun) is for faster charging and
many more electric cars
"what sort of prices are you looking at to charge up? Say at a in town charge point and a a motorway services (I assume they're a rip off
like petrol?" Oddly it's not expensive at motorway services, it's just particular suppliers that take the p1ss like Ionity at
65p/kW, but typical prices, motorway or elsewhere are usually 30 - 35p/kW. To compare with fuel, a car doing say 45mpg costs about £40 for 300 miles,
a mid size EV charging at between 30 & 35p/kW would be around £24, but you are very rarely going to be doing a journey where none of your charging
has been done at home, which, even if you're on a crap tariff isn't going to be more than around 20p/kW
Very interesting - thanks for sharing
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
"I am genuinely interested in EV and have a Polestar on the potentials list" - Yeah, it'd be on my list too except for the price
tag!!!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
Photo Archive
Building: miles of wild uncontrolled grins
posted on 5/10/21 at 05:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by russbost
"I am genuinely interested in EV and have a Polestar on the potentials list" - Yeah, it'd be on my list too except for the price
tag!!!
it is like a christmas list,.. LOL I guess it could have a Taycan S on it as well - but neither is likely. The Polestar just seems like a capable
car without the Tesla hype
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
quote:Originally posted by russbost
"Some of the new chargers are 350kw" - yes, but they won't be charging batteries at anything like that capacity, at least not yet, I
had the Kona hooked up to one at the w/e, max draw I saw was 75kW
That's limited by the car, not the charger, and the car limits it depending on the state of charge, temperature etc etc.
Here's some examples of charge rates off the exact same super high power charge points: https://twitter.com/Fastned/status/1110157257256386560
Very interesting that Polestar have become the first manufacturer to publish CO2 comparisons between their EV cars and conventional cars (Volvo].
Looks like you have to do 80-100,000km before the EV has less life time CO2 than an equivalent ICE car! After a ‘full life’ of 200,000km it still
emits around 2/3rds ton CO2 of a combustion car... so that’s claiming a life cycle of 125000 miles in English.
quote:Originally posted by JC
Very interesting that Polestar have become the first manufacturer to publish CO2 comparisons between their EV cars and conventional cars (Volvo].
Looks like you have to do 80-100,000km before the EV has less life time CO2 than an equivalent ICE car! After a ‘full life’ of 200,000km it still
emits around 2/3rds ton CO2 of a combustion car... so that’s claiming a life cycle of 125000 miles in English.
A spanking new hydrogen production plant is something like 80% efficient at best and pulls its energy from the grid (Which could be green energy). The
carbon fibre transport tanks required in the vehicle use carbon fibres which I suspect are not energy efficient to make (make plastic, then oxidise it
in high temps) and are not generally considered "recyclable" in the traditional terms - you can shred and use the shredded parts for
stuff, but that's about it. Certainly the engine changes are likely to be small, but essentially you're *adding* those two ^ to a normal
IC car and taking away the dino fuel side.
Looks like from the polestar values, as you might expect, battery production is just added to the vehicle carbon cost, but then immediately reduces
the running emissions by a vast amount.
Worth noting that the UK is significantly better then the EU in general in terms of sustainable electricity production, so we are closer to the
"Wind" category than the "EU" category.
quote:Originally posted by russbost
"Some of the new chargers are 350kw" - yes, but they won't be charging batteries at anything like that capacity, at least not yet, I
had the Kona hooked up to one at the w/e, max draw I saw was 75kW
That's limited by the car, not the charger, and the car limits it depending on the state of charge, temperature etc etc.
Here's some examples of charge rates off the exact same super high power charge points: https://twitter.com/Fastned/status/1110157257256386560
Yeah, that was entirely my point, they may be 350kW chargers, but that's NOT going to be their consumption - that graph shows the Kona at around
75kW at 30-40% charge which coincides exactly with what I saw
Re JC's comment "Looks like you have to do 80-100,000km before the EV has less life time CO2 than an equivalent ICE car!" -
can't say I'm overly surprised by that, but I'd have expected a little lower, it sounds worse in km, it's only 50 - 60,000
miles which isn't a lot- I had a quick scan thro' the article, (actually found it very hard to read, came up very oddly on my monitor)but
couldn't see exactly what they were using as a figure for recharge energy in terms of coal fired/gas/atomic/renewables etc. as that is surely
going to make a huge difference to where that crossover point occurs, for me, during the summer months I will be able to recharge all battery
"top ups" from my solar panels for free & low carbon footprint, so presumably stuff like that also lowers that changeover area.
It's pretty obvious that EV's are NOT the saviour of the planet they are touted to be, particularly if we are going to turn out fat
trucks like the iPace, however they are a step in the right direction, my reasoning on getting one is that if people don't buy/use them then the
infrastructure isn't going to improve which then stops people from buying - it was also the reason for leasing not buying
A genuine unbiased & fair comparison against hydrogen would make interesting reading, particularly as I've already pointed out for haulage I
can't see how we can use current EV technology, storage/weight needs to improve massively & that's probably 10 years or more away
& may still be 10 or more years away in 10 years time!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
Photo Archive
Building: It is an ex-Locost - it has gone to the IOW!
posted on 6/10/21 at 09:43 AM
One thing that EV cars don't do is emit a massive amount of pollution in cities, unlike petrol, and particularly diesel, cars do. You only have
to stand in London opposite Madame Tussauds to appreciate that! (not long ago this was rated as the most polluted road in Britain, IIRC). I have been
there, many years ago, and even then it was choking - the atmosphere there is disgusting.
It's a shame the video is quite so obviously biased as the vast majority of it is, I believe, correct. Also a shame that they got one of the
figures wrong by a factor of 10, 43,500 on the voiceover became 435,000 on the screen - I don't know which is right, but suspect it's the
lower figure; they also can't spell wasted correctly, which surely someone should have picked up pre- production? It makes the whole thing look
somewhat more amateurish
EV's do still pollute a little in cities, apparently rubber particles from tyres are more prevalent in air than you might think, but as well as
the obvious tailpipe emissions being gone, so has virtually all of the brake dust as nearly all braking is done by regen.
Something that's not been mentioned which could become very relevant is the possibility by 2026 of hydrogen boilers & a mix of natural gas
& hydrogen being supplied to homes & factories for heating as opposed to natural gas boilers - if this happens then surely hydrogen production
costs would drop which could make a huge ipact on the viability of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel
I was once told by what I thought was a reliable source that there wasn't enough lithium in the world to power all the cars we currently have -
no idea if that's true, but it's starting to look a bit like what we were told back in the 70's - that we'd run out of oil by
2030 - that one seems a bit wide of the mark now!
It's a fact that when we burn petrol or diesel in our ICE engines 70% of that is turned into heat rather than powering the vehicle, I've
never heard any mention of this in terms of overall heating of the planet, but it surely can't help! I wonder whet the comparable figure for an
EV is, ie how much goes to the wheels & how much just generates heat into the atmosphere?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
Photo Archive
Building: It is an ex-Locost - it has gone to the IOW!
posted on 6/10/21 at 01:28 PM
Yes, the silly mistakes are unfortunate - this was a pre-production version, and when I first saw it they apologised for the errors. I haven't
seen the final version yet.
When I was on a ferry across Cromarty Firth in Scotland I saw something that really brought the situation home to me - the first image is a whole host
of oil rigs and exploration vessels languishing in the bay. Some are there for maintenance, or being stored for future use, but most of them are just
redundant and parked - the locals hate them. I couldn't get a decent picture showing all of them, so this is just a selection. Many other
lochs and firths are similarly blemished by these things.
The next picture is looking the other way across the Firth - these are the bases for wind turbines. They are towed out to sea and put on the sea
floor, and the mast and turbine is mounted on top.
Photo Archive
Building: It is an ex-Locost - it has gone to the IOW!
posted on 6/10/21 at 02:42 PM
I should add, BTW, that I really don't have a 'head in the clouds' attitude to electric cars. My own views, in no particular order,
are:
They aren't the solution to the petrol/diesel car crisis - not by a long way.
Battery EVs may eventually get replaced by hydrogen fuel-cell cars, or something else, but not for a while.
They are way more expensive that ICE cars - but that's mostly due to European, Japanese and Korean manufacturers choosing to make them all
'luxury'. The Chinese make a lot of cheap EVs, and heaven help the other manufacturers when they finally start importing the basic models
here. They've already started with the MG EVs, and already have cars that cost the equivalent of under £6000 in China. Obviously this will
increase when factoring in the cost of certification, etc, but there's a lot of wriggle room there. One is already appearing in Europe, being
sold as the Dacia Spring, which is likely to cost around £11,000 - however Dacia haven't yet decided yet whether to import them to the UK.
it's not a brilliant car, but it would be good enough for many people.
We simply can't keep on using oil the way we do now.
EVs are way, way cheaper to maintain that ICE cars - everything is so much simpler. This may break the current dealer servicing model (this has
started already).
I love driving my EV - it's easy to drive, powerful, and does everything I want. And, of course, it's cheap to run, although I'm
realistic enough to realise that this will not go on forever. I'm sure the government will want to recover the lost fuel revenue somehow.
I believe that the thing that will kill ICE cars in the future will be the difficulty in getting hold of fuel. Oil companies are already cutting
back production, petrol stations are closing, and this will continue as the fuel producers realise that they can't/won't sell as much as
they used to in the past.
Lithium batteries can be recycled, the technology exists, although there aren't many companies doing it yet. Many used EV batteries are
being repackaged and used for domestic storage batteries, very successfully.
There are many sources of lithium in this world - it's a reasonably common element - although some are currently too expensive to extract, or
just too difficult, at the moment. There's even a proposal to extract it from Cornish tin mines!
There is a whole heap of mis-information, lies and plain cr*p currently being pushed out by certain parts of the media, especially the Daily Mail
and Daily Express, although there are many others. Researchers have examined these media sources and have found direct links to oil companies -
Rupert Murdoch is a major example.
Photo Archive
Building: McSorley 7+4 with Rover V8 (See avatar for latest
posted on 7/10/21 at 01:28 AM
Wow, this thread certainly took off since I last looked! Hopefully Chris is getting some revenue to keep the servers running as a result!
A couple of points I'd like to raise from a quick skim of the thread:
1. When considering the cost of ownership of an EV. Don't just look at the purchase price. You need to look at the cost of purchase but subtract
the lower cost of running plus the lower cost of servicing. That makes a huge difference. For example, my wife's i3 was something like
£400/month on a 48 month PCP deal with something like a 2k deposit and 9k end of lease balance. BUT, she was saving something like £120 a month on
fuel vs electricity and servicing was £325 for 5 years. This was on a 12k miles per year, realistic lease not some contrived 6k miles per year lease
with 20p/mile overage charge. And this wasn't a Vauxhall Corsa experience, this was a premium BMW experience and it felt that way.
2. When we bought our i3 I specified a heat pump heating system because I knew it would be highly beneficial. As a result, our range doesn't
drop that much during winter. Also, the recommendation is to use heated seats rather than cabin heating as much as possible because they are much more
efficient.
3. I don't recall who raised a question about whether EVs will be still viable after 10 year but seriously that's the most ridiculous
criticism I've heard in a while. Speaking for the i3, it has an aluminium chassis, carbon fibre shell and ding-proof plastic body panels which
will probably outlast all of us. It also has an 8 year warranty on battery and drivetrain which suggests it will last well beyond that in general
before major failures. But even if it does have a battery or motor or control unit failure, these parts will be available to purchase. Yes, a battery
pack might be something like £5k but that's no worse than and auto box on a modern BMW. Yes a motor might be £2-3k but that's better than
a full petrol or diesel engine... Yes the control unit might be £2k but that's not any worse than a petrol/Diesel engine either.
and goes zoom)
