gaz_gaz
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 08:58 AM |
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I don't know how much the car stands you at but you need to be aware there is likely to be a fair spend getting the car legal.
Just from the pictures you have at the moment there are a few small issues that need addressing.
The car also needs to have a reverse gear added,
Assuming you have no build pictures or receipts for components that will also become a problem/headache
Then there is the £450 iva fee plus £90 per retest (this may have changed)
Registration fee + number plates + tax could be upto £200
Quite quickly the costs stack up, it could be worth cutting your losses and selling the car as an unregistered/track only car depending on what you
want at the end of all this.
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lewis
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 09:02 AM |
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Just out of interest you bought the car in good faith a few months ago,can you not go after the bloke who sold you the car knowing its not registered
correctly? He is the one who has broken the rules & sold it on to you & lied about it.
I am a driving god!..........sort of
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SCAR
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 09:06 AM |
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Firstly get all reference to the wrong identity off the vehicle then the car is what it is, a yet to be registered kit build.
Don't be tempted to try and sell the Spartan identity.
You should cost up all the requirements to put it through IVA before you start.
The car looks a nice build and will have a good value as it is so it may be more cost effective to sell as non registered (for track use) than proceed
with iva
You could be spending about £1500 including a reverse mechanism and iva fees and you may also need a cat to meet emissions. Lots of mks with bike
engines have been through iva and others will have a better idea of the costs involved.
If vosa can prove the car has been used on the road you could be liable for a fine and back road tax, I think this is unlikely to happen.
The mot you got with the car is dodgy the mot station should have realised the reg number did not match up with the car they were testing. They may
have tested emissions as the old visual inspection only due to the reg date, the IVA test will be more up to date hence the need for a cat. We have
been advised we need a cat and a power commander to get our bike engine build through.
If you like the car do a least one track day before you move it on.
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bo55rmc
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 09:29 AM |
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Wow.. I did not realise there was so much required and needing reverse gear, I know you can get the electric kits but If I was to do It I would want
it done with a proper reverse.
I think you may be right, scrap Triumph identity after removing private plate, maybe have some use out of it on a track and sell for 4k as a track day
car? or replace engine to Hyabusa turbo and keep as a track day car?
Car stands me a little over 6k.... Mixed opinions on the previous owner. IF..he was not aware of this (as he bought it of chap who built it) it must
have been bought to his attention on eBay as well, as it did with me? Im sure he probably did know before I come to purchase it. Its my fault at the
end of the day for going into something with my eyes closed.
The garage MoT was a question going around in my head also, how can they mot a car that isnt what it is, but then I suppose its down to education, if
the Mot tester hasn't got a clue what a Spartan or MK is, as long as it comes up on DVLA, it no sharp edges, lights and tyres are ok and
don't smoke etc why would he refuse?
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 09:52 AM |
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Its nice that people have (eventually) become more sympathetic to the guy who has ended up holding the baby. However i really dont think we have
covered ourselves in glory as a group in the way we have dealt with this.
As things have turned out what we actually have here is someone who is keen to do things the right way and has now joined the forum. IN SPITE OF THE
TREATMENT HE HAS RECEIVED.
Surely the way it should have been dealt with was to have contacted the guy, politely advising him of the correct position in a friendly and positive
way and to invite him to join the forum to find out what the fuss was about.
Instead he was treated with rudeness and members of the forum took in turns to take the wee out of someone and try to get his car taken off the road.
This is someone with the same hobby as us- he doesnt deserve this treatment.
I really think some of us need to take a good look at ourselves here. forgot the petty zealous crusades and just make sure their own lives are up to
scratch.
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rdodger
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 10:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bo55rmc
No reverse unfortunately Mr Whipp
Scar, what got my back up was rdodger contacting me on eBay, find out info, asking questions then reporting back to this forum like a child! If people
want to jump to conclusions or provide criticism in a negative way and make accusations I simply have no time for them! Anyone who has words of advise
or wants to help (which is what these forums are supposed to do) then I am all ears and very much appreciate it! Anyone else can visit
www.facebook.com
This was one for myself a toy for the summer. Even if you were a trader, this is an area of the trade you would need to research on as it is a bit
more specialised. Any area a lot of traders I know, know nothing about as its not usually a car they would ever buy too sell.
Ah that's a shame. Did you get upset?
Well frankly I couldn't care less! By your rude and offensive responses you knew something wasn't right. You knew it wasn't a
Truimph based Spartan and you knew it wasn't correctly registered.
Now you are found out and find you can't just pass it off as something it isn't, you try to blame me and others.
Well if that makes you feel better then fine.
It's people like you who make it harder for the rest of us who follow the correct procedure and legal process.
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iank
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
...
I really think some of us need to take a good look at ourselves here. forgot the petty zealous crusades and just make sure their own lives are up to
scratch.
I see you haven't really changed your view from this thread http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=182628
Did you read my response? People have lots of good reasons to get upset.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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bo55rmc
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:04 AM |
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Did not get upset lol I felt embarrassed for you if I'm honest. People like you deserve to buy one of these like I did and then end up tangled
between the wheels of a lorry! Will not be replying to any of your comments so please chat somewhere else  People like you pollute these forums!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
quote:
Originally posted by bo55rmc
No reverse unfortunately Mr Whipp
Scar, what got my back up was rdodger contacting me on eBay, find out info, asking questions then reporting back to this forum like a child! If people
want to jump to conclusions or provide criticism in a negative way and make accusations I simply have no time for them! Anyone who has words of advise
or wants to help (which is what these forums are supposed to do) then I am all ears and very much appreciate it! Anyone else can visit
www.facebook.com
This was one for myself a toy for the summer. Even if you were a trader, this is an area of the trade you would need to research on as it is a bit
more specialised. Any area a lot of traders I know, know nothing about as its not usually a car they would ever buy too sell.
Ah that's a shame. Did you get upset?
Well frankly I couldn't care less! By your rude and offensive responses you knew something wasn't right. You knew it wasn't a
Truimph based Spartan and you knew it wasn't correctly registered.
Now you are found out and find you can't just pass it off as something it isn't, you try to blame me and others.
Well if that makes you feel better then fine.
It's people like you who make it harder for the rest of us who follow the correct procedure and legal process.
I think we have determined the owner was not aware of the IVA process and had bought the car himself being misslead that it was legit
When told it was incorrect he removed the ad and is now asking for advice to get the car correctly registered
Continuing the bad feeling on here is not solving anything. Both side could have behaved a bit better, take it as a lesson learnt.
Probably could do with this thread being closed tbh
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rdodger
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:12 AM |
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Don't feel embarrassed for me. I'm not the one trying to sell a ringer. I'm not stupid enough to buy one that is so clearly is
either.
Perhaps you should be a bit more careful in the future with what you buy and try to sell on.
[Edited on 22/7/13 by rdodger]
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bo55rmc
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:15 AM |
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Well said, thats the most sensible thing that has left your mouth yet, cannot agree with you more!
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blakep82
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:22 AM |
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The whole registration thing confuses me tbh. You can write whatever name you want on the forms, so if I ended up with amnesia, decided to register my
car (it could happen!) And picked two random words out the dictionary, is there anything to stop me putting the words triumph and spartan on the form,
and would the dvla tell me I can't?
Ok, the tax free thing is really the main issue here, and obviously not done by accident by the original builder, but that aside, surely you could
have a car registered as a ford escort if thats what you really wanted to call it on the forms? Its just a name after all
[Edited on 22/7/13 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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loggyboy
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
The whole registration thing confuses me tbh. You can write whatever name you want on the forms, so if I ended up with amnesia, decided to register my
car (it could happen!) And picked two random words out the dictionary, is there anything to stop me putting the words triumph and spartan on the form,
and would the dvla tell me I can't?
Ok, the tax free thing is really the main issue here, and obviously not done by accident by the original builder, but that aside, surely you could
have a car registered as a ford escort if thats what you really wanted to call it on the forms? Its just a name after all
[Edited on 22/7/13 by blakep82]
Its not the name thats the problem, its the lack of approval and legal registration. The names not been changed to a Triumph, its the fact its NOT
been changed from a triumph thats the problem.
You cant change the name of a registered car (easily), its only when you register a 'new' car that you can choose the name.
[Edited on 22-7-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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iank
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 11:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
The whole registration thing confuses me tbh. You can write whatever name you want on the forms, so if I ended up with amnesia, decided to register my
car (it could happen!) And picked two random words out the dictionary, is there anything to stop me putting the words triumph and spartan on the form,
and would the dvla tell me I can't?
Ok, the tax free thing is really the main issue here, and obviously not done by accident by the original builder, but that aside, surely you could
have a car registered as a ford escort if thats what you really wanted to call it on the forms? Its just a name after all
[Edited on 22/7/13 by blakep82]
You can get yourself into a serious situation if you make up something that's already used by another manufacturer. For example you
"could" register your MK (to pull a random car our of the air) after IVA as a "Caterham" and quadruple the sale value.
However when at some point in the future someone tries to sell it as a Caterham then someone could get pulled up for fraud - a proper jail time
offence - and the car will be crushed.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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richardm6994
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:13 PM |
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surely it's vosa / dvla who should check that the registered name matches the design of car when applying? But obviously they don't....I
think a grey area could have been uncovered here......
hypothetically......
Assuming I'm a complete novice and buy an incomplete and unfinished kit car (both me and the seller don't know what the kit is). I'm
not familiar with all of the different makes of kits and I don't go on the internet much....
I finish the car and pass the IVA and as I honestly think it's a westfield... that's what I fill in on the forms....
Obviously it's a Q-plate for the car, and it's registered as a westfield....but what happens then if later it's later discovered the
kit is a Robin Hood?
Is it a ringer? technically no because it's the same car that I presented at IVA...
Is it a westfield because that's what it says on the log book......nope because its now obvious its a robin hood
Is it a robin hood.....nope cos the log book says different...
I might have missed something obvious, but is there anything in place to stop you putting the wrong make / model on the forms when registering the
car?
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SCAR
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:22 PM |
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From one who was initially critical of the seller it is clear that the situation has moved on.
We are proud to consider ourselves a helpful and friendly forum with members sharing a common interest. The debate about what is and what is not
correctly registered can and should continue but with specific regard to this new member I think help and advice are now the most appropriate posts.
Electric reverse kits are now well sorted and work acceptably, don't assume they are a cheap bodge.
Personally I would track day the car, have some great fun, tinker with the handling, it will be well quick with the existing engine then sell it and
get most of your money back.
Life is about having fun whilst learning from our mistakes
Cheers
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:28 PM |
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bo55rmc - I think the best thing to do now would be to start a new thread with lots of pics of the oily bits of your car where most people on this
site will be more than happy to help you identify what you've got and the best way to get on the road and 100% legal (as well as the likley
costs involved)
download a copy of the IVA manual here to see whats involved - but don't let the big scary manual put you off - there are lots of folk here who
can give you advice on how to get through it:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M1%20IVA%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
and don't be too put off by the threat of a Q plate - it actually means you only need a visual smoke test at the MOT so its not all bad 
-
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
...
I really think some of us need to take a good look at ourselves here. forgot the petty zealous crusades and just make sure their own lives are up to
scratch.
I see you haven't really changed your view from this thread http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=182628
Did you read my response? People have lots of good reasons to get upset.
Time has not changed my view since that post. I did read your response to that thread and thought it was based on sound reasoning. However there is a
large grey area and a broadbrush approach is not always applicable.
Consider this scenario on the same car as an example. A Triumph based Spartan kit car is passed from owner to owner and survives many years. In that
time one owner has decided to rebody it, it's collected a couple of small knocks and battle scars and its not much more work to make 7 esque
body panels to fit it than it would be to match the original bodywork. He has read the law and knows it's quite ok to swap bodywork on a car
with a seperate chassis and it falls short of needing to be notified as a radically altered vehicle as it's still a 2 seater open car. He
notifies his insurance company and sends a photo to make sure they are aware the look of the car has changed and noties the dvla of a colour change.
The next owner doesnt take long to get irritated with having to set the points and top up the dashpot on the old Triumph Herald 1300 donor engine so
drops in a MX5 lump and gearbox. He notifies the insurers and the dvla, promptly gets a job overseas and has to sell the car.
Its bought by someone who cant understand why the car looks good, goes quite well but has an ancient rear axle setup and front suspension and brakes
that gets him scratching his head. He asks around, decides to use a modified Sierra rear end and front uprights, finds someone to weld on wishbone
mounts and fabricate a set of wishbones. He does this without having to remove any parts of the original chassis. A bit later he carries out some
repairs to the chassis to combat corrosion.
Surely in this example the car is visually different from when it was first built and now drives, handles and stops better, but can still be regarded
as legitimate as it has retained the original chassis.
As i say it's a grey area We shouldnt be too keen to jump to conclusions.
By the way my car is correctly registered as an MK, i have no vested interest in this I just feel quite strongly it's not our job to judge who
should be on the road and who should not.
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SCAR
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:41 PM |
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Is that right about smoke test only with bike engine cars?
My kit manufacturer told me we need a cat and a power commander to get our modern bike engine car through iva as the test is made against the year of
engine manufacture. We're talking about IVA here not mot
It'll save me some money if this is wrong
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bo55rmc
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
bo55rmc - I think the best thing to do now would be to start a new thread with lots of pics of the oily bits of your car where most people on this
site will be more than happy to help you identify what you've got and the best way to get on the road and 100% legal (as well as the likley
costs involved)
download a copy of the IVA manual here to see whats involved - but don't let the big scary manual put you off - there are lots of folk here who
can give you advice on how to get through it:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M1%20IVA%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf
and don't be too put off by the threat of a Q plate - it actually means you only need a visual smoke test at the MOT so its not all bad
"I dont have much time due to a house move coming up so at the minute the idea of scrapping Triumph I.D and selling as a track day car at a loss
is the most appealing" Then start again one day.
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SCAR
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 12:56 PM |
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The above scenario is interesting as it uses a gradual change to circumnavigate the term radically altered vehicle. I understand the term radically
altered is from as originally built not previous condition so each change is cumulative. A vehicle with different body panels different suspension
different engine and modified chassis would clearly be radically altered. At which point it tipped over is the grey area.
The classic car scene has had this problem for some time. My friend found an engine bolt off a 1930 Bugatti he's hoping to restore it with new
and reconditioned parts and apply for an age related plate.
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 01:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
Is that right about smoke test only with bike engine cars?
My kit manufacturer told me we need a cat and a power commander to get our modern bike engine car through iva as the test is made against the year of
engine manufacture. We're talking about IVA here not mot
It'll save me some money if this is wrong
No. For IVA, the emmisions test is based on the year of manufacture of the engine. If your engine is post Aug94 it'll be subject to the BETS
test limits and need a cat' and Power Commander to meet them. Once registered, if it's assigned a Q plate it'll be vis' smoke
only for MOT. If age related or new reg plate is issued then it'll have to meet the same levels as at IVA.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 01:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
Is that right about smoke test only with bike engine cars?
My kit manufacturer told me we need a cat and a power commander to get our modern bike engine car through iva as the test is made against the year of
engine manufacture. We're talking about IVA here not mot
It'll save me some money if this is wrong
No. For IVA, the emmisions test is based on the year of manufacture of the engine. If your engine is post Aug94 it'll be subject to the BETS
test limits and need a cat' and Power Commander to meet them. Once registered, if it's assigned a Q plate it'll be vis' smoke
only for MOT. If age related or new reg plate is issued then it'll have to meet the same levels as at IVA.
My kit was on a Q plate, and wasn't visible smoke only for MOT.
It depends on the engine its IVA'd with - the emissions are then on the log book (at the top). For example, my car was registered with a CVH
engine and had to meet the relevant emissions there after, even when I'd changed it to a zetec.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 02:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
My kit was on a Q plate, and wasn't visible smoke only for MOT.
It depends on the engine its IVA'd with - the emissions are then on the log book (at the top). For example, my car was registered with a CVH
engine and had to meet the relevant emissions there after, even when I'd changed it to a zetec.
Your MoT guy got it wrong then.
[Edited on 22-7-13 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 22/7/13 at 02:06 PM |
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No, it states the emissions on the V5. This has been covered previously on here. If I still had the car I'd scan it to show you.
EDIT:
Some what inconclusive thread from a little while ago:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=171783
My car definitely had emissions details on the V5, It was irrelevant as the MOT tester did it as smoke only, but it was certainly on there.
[Edited on 22/7/13 by Norfolkluegojnr]
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