bi22le
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 09:34 PM |
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Change of tack. BEC to CEC
Hi all,
It seems like ages since I last posted something but its probably about two weeks!
Im interested in getting a car soon (some of you may know that) am I was set on BEC.
Although due to a number of regions I am thinking CEC and inparticular a Raw Striker with 1600 4age.
My questions:
If I have about £6K to spent would I get a black top for that and what power?
What 0-60 to should I expect?
How would this car compare to a BEC (R1 power)?
Anyone have a nice one for sale (or where to look)???!!!
Thanks for any advice or comments.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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adithorp
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 10:59 PM |
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"...What... should I expect?..."
To be sent to Coventry... shunned by all right thinking people! 
adrian
[Edited on 17/11/09 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 07:57 AM |
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0 - 60 is normally 4 - 5 seconds i think. You'll drive the cec and never go back to bec. Just think of all the extra torque you'll have 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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franky
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 08:47 AM |
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Thats a BEC time.
Thought you needed 230+ bhp to get near a bike engine.
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RickRick
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 09:03 AM |
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bikes rev twice as fast, but still reach the same top speed, i'd assume bhp and torque were measured at flywheel for bike and car, as it gives
biggest numbers, so with twice the gear reduction, surely the torque output from the engine will be doubled
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 09:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
Thats a BEC time.
Thought you needed 230+ bhp to get near a bike engine.
All the calculations i have done suggest my car will have 0 - 60 of late 3's, low 4's. Thats with around 200hp in a much heavier car than
the norm.
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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franky
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 09:48 AM |
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I'd put a £20 bet for charity that its not in the 3's prob low 5's.
Its the extra torque that doesn't help too along with the weight.
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 09:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by speedyxjs
All the calculations i have done suggest my car will have 0 - 60 of late 3's, low 4's. Thats with around 200hp in a much heavier car than
the norm.
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bi22le
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 09:58 AM |
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i would like low 4s but must be below 5. I think stock they are about 150 ish stock. After having so much speed from a bec i dont want to go slower!
There is a you tube clip of a 4age supercharged getting 267bhp. That would be nice!
I personally think torque is not that important for a 500kg car. A bike engine is far to powerful for a bike anyway.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 10:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
I'd put a £20 bet for charity that its not in the 3's prob low 5's.
Its the extra torque that doesn't help too along with the weight.
So would i actually 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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oldtimer
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 10:56 AM |
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Blacktop should get you 160bhp +or- , I hope so as it's what I have. Have you been to Raw? they have a blacktop in their demo striker which
will show you exactly what the performance is like. Justin has just sold his supercharged silvertop motor.
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Ham
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 12:19 PM |
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Over here in SA the Lotus challenge runs class B featuring sevens with standard 4age 20v, they get to 100kph in a shade over 4s , my silvertop with
some mods returned 109 kw at the wheels with 165nM (at sea level) I reckon I get a touch over 4 to 100 kph.
Awesome motors....8500rpm on the limiter all day every day, no sweat.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 07:43 PM |
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My old pinto was just under 5 secs to 60 with ~170bhp on a 3.91:1 diff and 15" rims which is quite low geared. Which is what you ought to expect
with a sorted zetec install
Hoping to be in R500 territory with 300+bhp if I can put the power down.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Ivan
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 08:05 PM |
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That's a good question and as I am using the blacktop motor in my car have been contemplating it's potential performance as well and my
conclusions are:
If you run similar gearing to a BEC - i.e around 4100 rpm at 120kph you are looking at a 5:1 diff ratio depending on tyre size and with that I am
pretty sure there will be minimal difference in performance between it and a BEC with most of the difference being ascribable to the gearchange speed
of the BEC's sequential box.
However if you go for more normal 3.9:1 diff ratio giving around 3200 rpm @ 120kph you might struggle to get below 5 sec 0:60 mph times.
So I think with a Blacktop motor you can get as close to a BEC as it is possible to get performance wise with a small NA CEC, if you are willing to
put up with high cruising revs - the blacktop is after all more bike than car engine with more torque and reliability (if I recall head was designed
by Yamaha) and most of the difference can be ascribed to milder cams and slightly heavier components to the benefit of a longer life - I think you can
expect 100 000 miles of reliable performance which few BECs will give.
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tul214
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 08:39 PM |
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I have the 4A-GE motor from Raw in my Tiger S6. It has omex ignition, Raw's Trac-Pac which is cams, head gasket and vernier pullies and it is
fueled by a set of CBR 600 carbs. It has been set up at Bogg Brothers and I have seen 160bhp on their and Z-Cars rollers.
I have a 4.1 quaiffe ATB diff and a standard T9 box. It's revs are cut at 8000 but it feels like it would go more all day every day. With RAW
cams the power really comes on between 6000 and 8000rpm.
I have never timed it properly but I would say 60 comes up in <5 secs.
I would recommend the motor highly and after seeing the Striker that Robert Sinclair built at RAW Striker North, I think the cars are great too.
Hope this helps?
4A-GE at Boggs
1.6 Raw Super6 sold
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scudderfish
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| posted on 18/11/09 at 10:55 PM |
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Comparing flywheel torque is pointless as it is the torque at the rear wheel that hurls you down the road, and that is dependent on the gear ratios.
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