Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 04:20 PM |
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Modified busa sumps
I'm in need of a modified hayabusa sump. I can't stretch to a dry sump kit but i have been looking at the koenig sump and swinging pick
up. Where is the cheapest place to pick one of these up? Is there any other types about?
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franky
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 04:23 PM |
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http://www.novaracing.co.uk
A lot of places, ie extreme engines buy from here and re-brand.
Stick an accusump system on it and it'll perform as well as a dry sump.
Quite a bit cheaper too.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 04:33 PM |
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Thanks but where is it on their site? All i can see is their dry sump. Was planning to put an accusump on too.
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franky
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 04:35 PM |
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give them a call. I can't see it either now!
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 04:52 PM |
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Cheers, must have gone home now so i left them an email. Do they have a swinging pickup?
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franky
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 05:20 PM |
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not sure sorry.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 05:25 PM |
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If your going swinging pick up and accusump you have to be in dry sump territory price wise ?
Of the 2 I would put much more faith in an accusump than a swinging one, aren't they designed for drag racers ? They don't swing the full
360 and can get swung and trapped away from the oil in certain circumstances ? Just my 2p.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 05:30 PM |
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Apparently the Koenig swinging pickup only swings 180 degrees fowards and back as these are designed for drag bikes. To put a bike engine in a car
you turn it round so the swing would be side to side. Is this right?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 05:36 PM |
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I believe that to be the case, I have heard of failures though, under the right circumstances the g loads can hold the pickup against the stop as
whilst its wants to swing it cant get to the other side the way it wants, make any sense ?
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 05:46 PM |
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Yep makes sense. I've also heard the pick up is always imersed in oil and it holds alot more than the standard sump. Apparently MK use one on
their race car with no problems, they recomended for me to get the Koenig one. Would be nice to hear from people who use the different types.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 06:08 PM |
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Just been speaking to Rilltech racing in the states and he does a billet wet sump. Only problem is it $1295 (£857) plus postage! Seems very steep
but he says the Koenig one doesn't work.
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bob tatt
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 06:18 PM |
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dont learn the expensive way like i did.
i ran a koeing sump on mine and did the crank in less than 10 laps at rockingham.
i still use it now but the engine has a fully baffeled bottom now and an accusump and a oil presssure gauge on it 8 track days later no issues what so
ever you can really see the accusump working as well.
after speaking to lots of people about the koieing sump they all said the same fine on a bike but not in a car unless you are running with baffeles
and a acusump.
just dont skrimp a take a chance like a did and pay the price.
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richard thomas
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 06:35 PM |
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http://store.powertecengineering.com/acatalog/l.html
I've used this for 3 years...no probs whatsoever, but admittedly no trackdays. Perfect for road use though!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 06:39 PM |
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To be honest the accusump will pump oil for long enough to get round any corner on a UK circuit, I can see mine working around Gerrards at Mallory for
example, probably the longest corner on any UK circuit, I was speaking with Danny at MK only last week and I must admit I was surprised when he told
me the sump set up he is using particularly as a bit of money as been spent on the engine.
I have a shortened baffled sump and accusump on mine with no issues, personally having looked into the swinging pick up I left them alone and if I was
considering the two of them together then I would go dry sump at a similar cost ?
eta, Bob, if you can see your accusump working what does it say about the swinging pick up and which one is keeping the engine intact ?
[Edited on 28/6/10 by Jon Ison]
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 07:26 PM |
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The swinging pickup pipe and sump are only about £400 i think. What shortened sump do you have Jon?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 07:38 PM |
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Only 
My sump was modded by Martin (MK engineering) chopped, squared off to add capacity, baffled around pick up and 2 plugs welded in, one for oil temp and
one from draining. Think from memory lost the best part of 3 inch.
The other plus, for me anyway is pre oiling the engine before start up with the accusump, just flick the switch and you can here the oil going around
the engine and the pressure gauge go up before pressing the go button.
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bob tatt
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 08:04 PM |
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jon i know what is keeping my engine alive and its not the swinging sump as i know from very bitter and expensive experience......
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Davegtst
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 09:01 PM |
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What keeping it alive then?
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JF
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| posted on 28/6/10 at 10:10 PM |
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....Hmm I'd say the repeated shocks of the sparkplugs reanimate the engine every time it dies.....
.....might it be the accusump?
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Chet
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 01:29 AM |
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FYI-
We were one of the first to use the Koenig oil pan and still do. We have always used it with a baffle and have not seen any issues. It is a proven
solution on numerous race Busa Furys and the single seat Nemesis race car.
Please note that there are a lot of inferior "knockoffs" on the market.
The cost here in the USA is $435 + shipping.
Dry sumps add weight, additional points of failure, space issues and are not necessarily the best solution.
I strongly believe more Hayabusa engines have been destroyed through low oil levels or improper oil weight than any other causes.
Chet
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Rustybin
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 07:05 PM |
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What size of accusump are people using? Where do you plumb it in?
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franky
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 07:36 PM |
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there's a plug in the end of the main oil gallery, its a strange size, m16x1.5 or something. Thats the best place as its where the oil needs
to be.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 08:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
there's a plug in the end of the main oil gallery, its a strange size, m16x1.5 or something. Thats the best place as its where the oil needs
to be.
M16x1.5 isn't actually that strange a size believe it or not, quite common for oil fittings  Various adaptors on sale, check out
http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/. They've been very helpful with our problems recently!
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 08:29 PM |
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More specifically:
http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/jic-to-metric-adaptors-17-c.asp
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Davegtst
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 08:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chet
FYI-
We were one of the first to use the Koenig oil pan and still do. We have always used it with a baffle and have not seen any issues. It is a proven
solution on numerous race Busa Furys and the single seat Nemesis race car.
Please note that there are a lot of inferior "knockoffs" on the market.
The cost here in the USA is $435 + shipping.
Dry sumps add weight, additional points of failure, space issues and are not necessarily the best solution.
I strongly believe more Hayabusa engines have been destroyed through low oil levels or improper oil weight than any other causes.
Chet
Do you have a website and do you sell the baffles aswell?
Talking to MK today, they use a Holeshot racing sump (similar but better than the Koenig apparently) and haven't had a problem for 2 years. No
accusump either. Holeshots website is down i think though.
[Edited on 29/6/10 by Davegtst]
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