tegwin
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 03:11 PM |
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KA... help... with pics
Still trying to find the cause of the misfire in my sisters KA 1.6 sportka..... Its done 80,000 miles
Very evident at idle but not so noticeable above 3000RPM...
Changed the plugs, HT Leads and coilpack.... also switched around injectors and done a compression test..
Comp test shows nothing out of the ordinary and switching injectors around doesnt help... the problem (according to the diag) is percistantly in
Cyl2....
Its not a really bad misfire, but its annoying and I dont want it to suddenly get worse or cause a catastrophic failiure on the motorway or
something...
Took the rocker cover off and found a slightly worn camshaft... would this cause a misfire?
I can actually flick the coating on the cam lobes off with my fingernail in places..
What would cause that damage? Any thoughts on what else might be causing my misfire?
[Edited on 19/7/10 by tegwin]
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 03:20 PM |
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no idea what is causing the damage - but those bits will now be floating around your engine. How big are they - could they block an oil way / cause a
problem for a bearing surface?
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tegwin
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 03:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
no idea what is causing the damage - but those bits will now be floating around your engine. How big are they - could they block an oil way / cause a
problem for a bearing surface?
Biggest flake I could pull off with a finger was about 2mm long, 2mm wide and about .5mm thick... very brittle stuff....
Deffinately not what you want floating about in the engine!
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jossey
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 03:50 PM |
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aint that due to over heating of the cams caused by bad oil normally.
i have seen that on a old Focus.
maybe its a ford thing.
dave j
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 04:31 PM |
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could be the cause of your misfire depending on the depth of the holes.
Imagine the scenario where a flake comes off and the cam comes round before the oil press has enough time to pump up the hydralic tappet. ).5mm
clearance is quite a bit.
Also as most cams are only surface hardened then IMHO it's only going to get worse/wear quicker.
A bit worrying. Looking at it I would change the cam. even if it does not cure the misfire.
Does it just mis or backfire or spit through the throttle body??
A backfire would point to the exhaust valve a spit back to an inlet valve ( cross reference that) with the cam lobe for said exhaust or inlet valve
and it may be a pointer,
ETA in pic 3 there looks to be like a line going right down the centre of the cam lobe. could be a trick of the light or a surface crack in the cam
hardening.
[Edited on 19/7/10 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 04:59 PM |
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I think you might just have caught that cam just in time before it completely wrecks the engine.
You certainly don't want to start the engine again until the cam is replaced and the oil and filter changed.
You might just find that the misfire goes when you have done all that work - if not then you know it wasn't the cam!
Cheers
Mooky
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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britishtrident
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:09 PM |
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Looks like a symptom not cause.
Cause is likely to be oil related --- good quality 5w/30 semi-synthetic or fully synthetic required.
Cam & followers need to be changed PDQ.
A magnetic drain plug should help catch any debris that can't be cleaned out.
[Edited on 19/7/10 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Mark G
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:13 PM |
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Thats unlikely to cause a misfire, Its just the case hardening coming away from the shaft. Especially as you've said the misfire is on no.2 and
that looks like its on no.1.
I would replace it though as now that the hardened surface has gone it wouldn't take long before it's totally shot and also knackered your
rockers.
What were the results of the compression test?
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:22 PM |
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A missfire happens a lot with the latest nissan micra engine when compression tested there is up 30% difference in the compression results always
caused leaking valves requiring head off and valves re lapped in
Then after that is done it has to go on the computer to re learn the values fro idle etc
[Edited on 7/19/2010 by DRC INDY 7]
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Puddle Dodgers Club
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perksy
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:34 PM |
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That wouldn't be the first Ford KA to eat a Camshaft
Also The Early ones had abit of a reputation for Camshaft/Follower issues
That and Sparkplugs that has a habbit of seizing in the head 
Needs Changing ASAP
What were the Compression readings ?
Out of interest what did the plugs look like when you changed them ?
[Edited on 19/7/10 by perksy]
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RichardK
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by perksy
That and Sparkplugs that has a habbit of seizing in the head
Ooops, thats reminded mookaloid!
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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iank
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by perksy
That wouldn't be the first Ford KA to eat a Camshaft
Also The Early ones had abit of a reputation for Camshaft/Follower issues
That and Sparkplugs that has a habbit of seizing in the head
Needs Changing ASAP
What were the Compression readings ?
Out of interest what did the plugs look like when you changed them ?
[Edited on 19/7/10 by perksy]
Is that not a completely different engine to the one in the SportKa? (OHV Kent derived vs SOHC all alloy).
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Liam
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:48 PM |
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Have you cleaned that camshaft? Could be just the photos, but looks as dry as a witch's ****. Had the covers of my tintop recently and it all
looked a lot more oily in there! Oil starvation might explain why it's gone all blue and started pitting/spalling! Does it get serviced
properly?
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mookaloid
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 06:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardK
quote:
Originally posted by perksy
That and Sparkplugs that has a habbit of seizing in the head
Ooops, thats reminded mookaloid!
indeed - fortunately on this occasion the garage sorted it out at their expense 
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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beaver34
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 07:05 PM |
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gap the plugs make sure there right, did you use genuine parts for it?
is it bad enough to bring on the engine light?
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 07:30 PM |
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As said the worn cam is on no 1 cylinder, if you have changed the plugs, coil pack and swapped the injectors around then I think a cylinder leakage
test would be a good idea followed by a good look for inlet manifold air leaks especially around the inlet for no2 . It may also be a good idea to
test for power supply at the injector using a Noid light or digital voltmeteras voltage at idle may be a bit low?
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Liam
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 07:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
As said the worn cam is on no 1 cylinder
I count damage on at least 3 cylinders in those photos - wouldn't be surprised if it's all of them. Has to be oil starvation. Possibly
just poor servicing over a long time, maybe even before the current owner - 80,000 is fairly high for a cheap little car/engine. Sticking valves could
also damage the camshaft and might explain the misfire. Another pointer to lubrication problems or maybe overheating which could itself be a symptom
of poor lubrication or a water cooling problem.
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tegwin
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| posted on 19/7/10 at 10:27 PM |
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My mother had the car from new.... It was serviced by Ford... and since then, by me....
Yes, I cleaned the oil off the cams so I could photograph the damage...
Its currently driven by my sister who in true 'woman' fasion never checks the oil.... but I have never done a random inspection and found
the oil to be unacceptably low.... There is a whining noise sometimes from the belt/chain side of the engine... I had assumed it was a sticky
waterpump seal... I do wonder now if its an oilpump fault?!??
The pitting/damage of the hardening is on all lobes, the intakes are much worse than the exhauast...
Interestingly Cyl2 exhaust is the best one...whish is odd given that is where I suspect the fault is...
I cant work out if its worth fitting new camshaft/valve-regrind...... the car cant be worth much more than £2k.,.. if that...
Anyone care to guess how much parts would be for a new camshaft/follower/lifter set?
[Edited on 19/7/10 by tegwin]
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