Yazza54
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:15 PM |
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F**king serial ports!!!
I bought an Innovate LC-1 with gauge and fitted it all up to my R1 Fury. All works perfect, tells me I'm running rich off the gauge. Went to
plug it in and it's a serial port. I have a serial to usb but it isn't recognizing it because it's looking for a Serial port not a
usb.
Useless.
So I go to plug my Power commander in thinking I can get it a bit better just reading off the Lc-1 gauge. Same problem. Now I know that my Power
Commander is the older non usb version, so no biggie. But the LC-1 has me annoyed as it's brand new, why the hell do companies still make
components with serial port connections when you can't even buy a computer or laptop with a 9 pin serial port anymore!?!?!
Anyway, does anyone know what my options are? The usb to serial cable I had was only a cheap simple cable, is there another option other than buying a
old laptop with the serial port?
My dads Emerald ECU had the same issue, they supplied it with a serial cable then he rang up and they admitted no one really has 9 pin serial anymore.
What use is that!!!?
Grr. Any help/info would be much appreciated.
Ryan
[Edited on 23/1/11 by Yazza54]
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:26 PM |
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We had the same trouble with the diagnostic gear for the quad bikes we work on, the boss had to go & source a second hand laptop with the serial
port. The reasoning is the serial port transmits the data required far better & I hear a lot of diagnstic stuff needs a serial port too, I'm
no computer boffin so I've no idea whether that the real reason or it's something else.
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PSpirine
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:34 PM |
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I've always managed to get USB-Serial to work in the end. However, there were some that just wouldn't work properly. So we used to have
about 3 different cables (each with the drivers installed), and just try each one out. At least one would always work.
Serial is a great interface for diagnostics etc. If you still have no luck with your usb-serial cable, I would just try and get an old laptop for this
sort of stuff.
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Yazza54
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:36 PM |
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I think now the red mist has decended a bit it'd make sense to just try my dads cable. Very annoying though. Things like this should be included
in the kit, even if it costs a little more... it's better if it all frigging works.
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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PSpirine
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:40 PM |
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If you do decide to get a "garage" laptop, I can really really recommend these (I've had two so far for various odd jobs, and they
work incredibly well for what is an old laptop):
Compaq Evo N610c Laptop top spec display, Ubuntu, case on eBay (end time 23-Jan-11 22:13:08 GMT)
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ChrisW
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:47 PM |
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From someone with a reasonable level of electronics/software/computer hardware experience over the years; USB is expontentially more complicated to
interface to basic hardware such as ECUs, and other kit where computing power isn't it's primary purpose.
Serial protocol is, on the other hand, relatively simple to implement. As long as you can accurately time the bits to maintain a constant baud rate,
it's simply a matter of shifting the data out one bit at a time.
With USB you have to do all manner of identification to the host computer, and write driver software, which requires a whole new skill set of Windows
development. Then you have the problem of porting the drivers to Linux, Mac, etc, not to mention keeping up with the evolution of Windows
revisions.... XP, Vista, 7... whatever they come out with next.
What I'm trying to say is that, despite it being a bit of a pain, I'm not suprised non-PC hardware manufacturers stick with traditional
serial comms. If you buy a decent USB to serial device and apply some common sense when setting it up it's not really a hardship to do. The
one I have, which I bought years ago, has never let me down. The thing to be aware of is that Windows likes to change the virtual COM port number
randomly, so best to double check each time you boot up where it's put it this time.
Chris
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jeffw
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 01:53 PM |
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quote:
Anyway, does anyone know what my options are? The usb to serial cable I had was only a cheap simple cable, is there another option other than
buying a old laptop with the serial port?
Cheap serial to USB cables tend not to work. My Targus one has worked with everything I've tried it with from Cisco 6513 to Megasquirt V2.
Never had a issue and the software mimics a serial port to the software you are using.
http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=235832&CatId=760
Not cheap though but less money than a laptop.
[Edited on 23/1/11 by jeffw]
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RazMan
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 02:10 PM |
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I spent a few infuriating minutes trying to get my netbook to work with a cheap usb convertor. In the end it worked and it is simply the way the
'fake' serial port is configured. Do a search for usb under my name - I am pretty sure you will find the instructions you need to get it
sorted.
*edit* here you go - see if this is any help
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=134026
[Edited on 23-1-11 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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austin man
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 02:57 PM |
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the problem I have found is that the hardware tends to look for com port 1 when I have used the USB to Serial I ave had to change the port settings so
it reconises the device as com port 1
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 02:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Yazza54
I bought an Innovate LC-1 with gauge and fitted it all up to my R1 Fury. All works perfect, tells me I'm running rich off the gauge. Went to
plug it in and it's a serial port. I have a serial to usb but it isn't recognizing it because it's looking for a Serial port not a
usb.
But a USB adapter appears as a serial port to anything using the Win32 API. Is your problem simply that the virtual COM port is at too a high a
number for the Innovate software (and therefore a software fault), or can it correctly open the virtual COM port but not communicate?
To answer your question, serial is still used as it is many orders of magnitude simpler than a USB implementation, and is still perfectly adequate for
many applications.
USB/Serial adapters normally only cause problems with legacy software that doesn't support COM ports higher than 4, or with very timing
sensitive applications.
[Edited on 23/1/11 by MikeRJ]
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Yazza54
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 03:08 PM |
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Thanks but I don't seem to have that option, there is no ports section to expand 
I'm on Windows 7 by the way
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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rf900rush
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 03:21 PM |
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It's not so much as new parts still using old serial ports, it is more like new computers not supporting the old ports.
There are still thousands of systems out there that needs compatibility with old systems.
Main problem is the any small company wishing to use the new ports can't afford the licenses.
The old systems are free to every one.
Best thing is to have at least one PC/Laptopt with the old ports on them.
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Yazza54
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 04:02 PM |
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Cheers guys, with the info on here and a bit of dicking about it seems to have connected up.
New queries!
Does the LC-1 only connect fully when the engine is running? It found the serial port etc but when I tried to connect it said there is no realtime
data or something? The gauge is reading the base air reading so I thought it'd just show that?
Same with the power commander, it connects on ignition when the powercommander lights up, then loses connection once the fuel pump etc is ready and
the power commander lights go out. I'm guessing it will re connect when I start the engine..?
I know the easiest way to find out would be to start it, but the garage is attached to the house and I'll gas everyone. Not worth the grief!!
[Edited on 23/1/11 by Yazza54]
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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will121
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 04:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Yazza54
My dads Emerald ECU had the same issue, they supplied it with a serial cable then he rang up and they admitted no one really has 9 pin serial anymore.
What use is that!!!?
But Emerald also sell (as an extra) a serial to USB adaptor wich they garentee to work with their ECU, think general problem is the cheap ones dont
work
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Yazza54
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 04:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by will121
quote:
Originally posted by Yazza54
My dads Emerald ECU had the same issue, they supplied it with a serial cable then he rang up and they admitted no one really has 9 pin serial anymore.
What use is that!!!?
But Emerald also sell (as an extra) a serial to USB adaptor wich they garentee to work with their ECU, think general problem is the cheap ones dont
work
I know, but my dad's gripe with it was that he came to connect it all up and run through the checks and the lead wasn't there. He was
never asked upon ordering it if he needed it. It said in the manual that using cheaper leads could damage the Emeralds software which he found
infuriating for the sake of telling him he needed an extra £15 part. A power commander or LC-1 is one thing, but I wouldn't expect to be going
through that after spending over 500 quid on a ECU. It was just bad timing as the electrician he used to wire it in is hard to get any time out of and
then it turns out they can't do it, to be honest he could've checked but he's not very 'tech' and expected everything to
be included, as would I spending that kind of money.
I'll have to get some pics up of my dad's project actually... Maserati/Ferrari engined Ultima, if anyones interested.
I'm unhappy cos I eat and I eat cos I'm unhappy
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perksy
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 04:26 PM |
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I'll have to get some pics up of my dad's project actually... Maserati/Ferrari engined Ultima, if anyones interested.
Yes Please 
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 05:51 PM |
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There was/is a similar problem with Megajolt - here's their webpage discussing ways around it...
Autosportlabs
It's brief, but it may help some people...
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stevebubs
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 06:24 PM |
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FWIW, I've never had a problem with LC1 or Emerald software working with any of my Serial-USB converters on XP....
[Edited on 23/1/11 by stevebubs]
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RazMan
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| posted on 23/1/11 at 07:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
FWIW, I've never had a problem with LC1 or Emerald software working with any of my Serial-USB converters on XP....
[Edited on 23/1/11 by stevebubs]
Or indeed Windoze 7 - its all in the config of the ports 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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