Custardpants
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 08:12 PM |
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Busa sump/accusump info
Hi Guys, really need some advice -
Building an MK Indy R with a 2008 Gen 2 hayabusa engine. Intentions for the car to be certainly trackday worthy, and I really dont want the engine to
go bang.
Options -
Engine with standard sump and accusump
Engine with swinging pickup and shallow sump
engine with swinging pickup,sump and also accusump
Can I plumb in a 6 pint accussump to take care of the oil pickup issues with cornering, or am I best to ask MK to fit their swinging pickup and billet
sump before the engine goes in the car, and then fit the accusump too? (guess it can go into the return line from the oil cooler easily enough)
Has anyone used this sump for example, or is the holeshot 600 pound swininging pickup and sump worth it?
SUZUKI HAYABUSA 2' BILLET SUMP PAN KIT GSX1300R | eBay UK
Also, is the manual valve the best to go for with the accusump?
Thanks, will get pictures up soon once its ready 
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 08:31 PM |
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I run a busa with a shortened baffled sump and a accusump engine as done a dozen track days with no issues, slicks used when weather permits so plenty
of cornering loads.
Do not plumb it into the oil cooler lines it won't work, needs to be plumbed into a main oil gallery, later electric valves are fine, the one I
have allows feed into accusump constantly and opens to feed the engine when it see's anything below 30psi, personally not a fan of the swinging
pick up it can't swing 360 and can under certain circumstances get held away from the oil unable to swing back hard to explain in words.
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Custardpants
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 08:59 PM |
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Thanks Jon, do you recommend a particular source for the shortened baffled sump?
Luke
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noc231073
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 09:03 PM |
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I am just nearly finished my build of an mk busa with a 2010 busa engine....i have fitted the holeshot racing swing sump ...but in hindside if i was
doing it again i think i should have dry sump it..
if you look at the cost of the swing sump with an acusump ... a dry sump system wouldnt cost a big amount more..
i know i will probably go the dry sump route if i keep the car..
Are MK building the car?? While thinking about oil starvation is one thing.. you have to look at cooling as well. most of the parts i got from MK just
didnt cut it ..ie: do not fit the standard radiator they fit it cheap and crap..fit an alloy rad for proper cooling.. also MK will try and fit the
secondhand oil cooler form the bike and they usually fit this way back behind the radiator and the front suspension on the indy r ..again another
mistake as there just not enough airflow to cool the oil ...
I have got an alloy radiator which has an oil cooler mounted to the front of it (a new oil cooler)...I am expecting the rad to arrive this week i will
get a pic up as soon as i have....
Also...while plumbing the oil cooler MK uses the standard bike fitting form the engine were they just use some oil hose held on with dubliee clips
again not up to the job...oil pressure on a bike engine can get fairly high and a dubliee clip wont last and it will blow of leaving a rather big mess
and possible engine bang...what you need is a proper oil cooler with - 8 jic fitting and you can buy -8 jic oil outputs for the engine from holeshot
racing or extreme etc. the fit proper oil hose with proper fittings... costs more but worth it for piece of mind.
loads to think about!!
but at least your are at the stage to act now ... money spend now will save you in the long run
anymore questions give me a shout
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 09:26 PM |
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Martin of MK engineering did my sump, I'm lucky as I live close by and was able to just drop it off and pick it up whilst passing.
It personal preference but having lost an engine due to a dry sump failure unless it was the only way I could get an engine to fit due to height
restrictions i would not go there again.
Most engine wear is during start up ? The accusump pre oils the engine befroe starting as to be a plus ?
Mine goes into the engine block front bottom left when fitted into the car, all lines are 1/2" braided hydraulic with a 13 row cooler mounted in
front of the rad, where are you in the UK ?
Will take and post a few pics if you like to to give you an idea of what Ive done.
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noc231073
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 09:48 PM |
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yeah i like the idea of that ....
maybe an acusump is worth thinking about for me aswell as the swing sump which i already have...
are the inlets for the sump already there for the hayabusa ?
is it just a matter of removing a bung to get access to the oil gallery?
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noc231073
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| posted on 16/4/11 at 09:57 PM |
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what size also would you use with a busa ......and is the manual the way to go ?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/4/11 at 01:04 PM |
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A few photos, the 1st one is the rad and oil cooler
The second one where the accusump is plumbed in, the left hose is the accusump, the other 2 oil cooler hoses, you can just see the modded sump, not a
great photo I'm afraid just shoved camera down there and hoped for the best.
Last one electric valve, much better than the earlier type, allows full flow to accusump at all times, the pressure switch you see pointing down is
the one that opens it back to engine, anything below 30 psi it opens and flows into engine, the switch on top is to my dash, oil pressure. Excuse the
dirt, car is as it came back for a very wet Anglesey track day.
[Edited on 17/4/11 by Jon Ison]
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noc231073
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| posted on 17/4/11 at 02:26 PM |
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Great that really helps
Thanks for the pics
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Rustybin
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| posted on 18/4/11 at 07:09 AM |
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The early Radicals used a cut down baffled sump and accusump. So plenty of racing miles have been racked up with this set up. It wouldn't
surprise me if their switch to dry sump was as much about perception and cost justification as for real engineering reasons.
The oil gallery core plugs are M14 x 1.25 has anyone found a source of adapters? I could use a -8 and -6
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 18/4/11 at 08:10 AM |
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I got mine from local hydraulic hose company, (the ones that make them up on site) they had them on shelf metric one side 1/2" bsp other side,
from memory that 3 stainless braided hoses and other required nipples seals etc cost me about £25 and a packet of fags on a Saturday morning. 
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Custardpants
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| posted on 18/4/11 at 10:16 AM |
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Mk are putting my car together - unfortunately I'm still stuck - spoken to holeshot, daytuner and Mk themselves, and still unsure what to do.
Mk don't fit dry dumps on their race cars and just have the swinging pickup and billet sump, and have never had a problem with a 280hp car.
Fitment of a billet wet sump and an accusump wont be an issue to incorporate into the build either for Mk.
Daytuner run dry sump kits in their cars- a full kit looks like 1.5 to 2k all in, versus 700 for a billet sump and accusump.
Surely a 6 pint accusump will always be able to supply the engine irrespective of the swinging arm sticking at 180 degrees for a few seconds. So do I
go for a less than perfect solution that works well for some on track with slicks and higher power engines, or the dry sump solution, which will be
more complex for me to fit, and something I really hadn't budgeted for?
Having worked on skylines I'm far too aware of cost cutting creating hidden costs in the long run, but even though I understand the reasons
I'm surprised this is all necessary, never had a problem with my skyline running a normal sump even on that huge corner at Mallory park! Guess
that's the problem with switching to a vastly different type of car.
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noc231073
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| posted on 18/4/11 at 09:56 PM |
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Well my cents worth ...
If it just for track days I'd say go with the a baffled sump and an accusump
If you had an endless budget a dry sump is the real answer but we wouldn't be building Mks if budget wasn't a problem
I am going to use my Mk for hillclimb and sprinting so i am sorry I didn't go for the dry sump but now I already have holeshots swinging dump I
will add the accusump as well as I agree with above . Mk say they never had a problem with the swing sump but thats untrue as coming towards the end
of last season the done the big end bearing in the engine ... So take what Mk say with I pinch of salt as all their interested in is the cash in your
pocket ... There's a wealth of information on this forum use it and learn about the car ..
I am the same as you I am new to the kit car scene and have race tin tops for years .. But there loads to learn and i am still learning ...
And I am speaking from experience do not let Mk cut corners on you car.. Do your home work
For another wealth of info go to www. hayabusa.org
Also remove the big ugly pair valve from the engine easy and cheap job that tidys the engine up lovely
Don't waste you money on a power commander either. You can map the existing ecu with a few pound worth of bits from rs components and free soft
ware from www ecu flashing . Org.... Great piece of kit and save yourself up to 500
I have fitted a flatshifer pro with mechanical paddles.. Which after buying 2 other systems I decided on that
As you can see I an quite particular with what I put on the car ... Btw don't spend the 350 or something like that for Mk paddle shift if you
fitting one it crap and I couldnt give mine away . I got a proper made one from Andy in Ab performance lovely piece of kit.. Remember it's your
car and your money and you can fit what parts you like
If you need any info give me a shout
[Edited on 18/4/11 by noc231073]
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