Daddylonglegs
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:19 AM |
|
|
M5 Crash
Horrible to think what happened there.
I guess there will be lots of theories as to what caused it, but there seems to be a few HGVs and also it's right after the slip-road.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to either brake or change lanes to avoid an HGV taking me out because they did not slow on
entering the motorway.
While I appreciate that they take a while to get up to speed, there is no excuse for 'assuming' everyone will move over to let them in.
Just my opinion, and probably very wrong assumptions, but either way, driving standards in the UK are on a downward spiral for sure.
But most of all, I think I speak for all our members when I say condolences to all those who've lost loved ones or have friends/family in
hospital. Take care on the roads people.
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
|
|
|
|
|
Dangle_kt
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:30 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
Horrible to think what happened there.
I guess there will be lots of theories as to what caused it, but there seems to be a few HGVs and also it's right after the slip-road.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to either brake or change lanes to avoid an HGV taking me out because they did not slow on
entering the motorway.
While I appreciate that they take a while to get up to speed, there is no excuse for 'assuming' everyone will move over to let them in.
Just my opinion, and probably very wrong assumptions, but either way, driving standards in the UK are on a downward spiral for sure.
But most of all, I think I speak for all our members when I say condolences to all those who've lost loved ones or have friends/family in
hospital. Take care on the roads people.
agreed, condolences to the families involved.
I also agree with the pulling out - but it ain't just HGVs.
The worst but is the person who caused it all probably didn't get the worst of it, its the poor schmoes who were doing nothing wrong and had no
where to go that suffer unfairly.
|
|
|
DixieTheKid
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:36 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Daddylonglegs
Horrible to think what happened there.
I guess there will be lots of theories as to what caused it, but there seems to be a few HGVs and also it's right after the slip-road.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to either brake or change lanes to avoid an HGV taking me out because they did not slow on
entering the motorway.
While I appreciate that they take a while to get up to speed, there is no excuse for 'assuming' everyone will move over to let them in.
Just my opinion, and probably very wrong assumptions, but either way, driving standards in the UK are on a downward spiral for sure.
But most of all, I think I speak for all our members when I say condolences to all those who've lost loved ones or have friends/family in
hospital. Take care on the roads people.
I drive a HGV myself from time to time and agree completely with what you are saying. Its a filtering lane, not a bullying lane!
Anyhow, love to those that died, their family and the injured.
COS IT'S Worth IT
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:43 AM |
|
|
When I heard the line "worst UK road accident in living times" I feared the worst. I'm sure those involved and effected by the crash
would say it wasn't a good evening but I'm sure I recall bigger pile-ups. Lets hope those who died did so without suffering. I really
don't fancy being burnt alive.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
Dusty
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 11:56 AM |
|
|
The pictures I have seen show a tangle of cars at the front of the crash, then a mix of cars and HGVs at the back. It was/had been raining and there
was dense fog around too. It's too early to have any idea what all the relevant factors were that led to the crash.
Pick some or all from the following. Poor visibility, wet roads, differential road speeds, someone made an error, joining, swapping lanes, had a
mechanical failure, fell asleep, lost concentration, drunk, going to fast for the conditions, using the phone, having a row, distracted by screaming
children, million other reasons and two vehicles came together. Once that happened the rest followed with terrible inevitability considering the
speeds most drivers travel at on the M-ways and awful consequences. Many would have had little chance of avoiding involvement. Some may have burned
to death trapped in their cars. The whole thing is almost too horrific to think about.
I can only express condolences to those injured, and the families and friends of those killed.
|
|
|
NigeEss
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
I'd narrow the cause down to driving standards.
Every day it's the same on motorways, people driving too close and or fast for the conditions.
Many years ago when I lived in Bristol there was a heavy spell of fog, proper pea soup stuff and
they were discussing it on the local radio station.
One of the callers rang to complain (quote)
"the speed limit in this coulntry is ridiculous, how am I supposed to do 70 in this weather"
Sums it up really.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:06 PM |
|
|
First of all Condolences those that have lost relatives or friends in the accident.
quote:
Originally posted by NigeEss
I'd narrow the cause down to driving standards.
Every day it's the same on motorways, people driving too close and or fast for the conditions.
Many years ago when I lived in Bristol there was a heavy spell of fog, proper pea soup stuff and
they were discussing it on the local radio station.
One of the callers rang to complain (quote)
"the speed limit in this coulntry is ridiculous, how am I supposed to do 70 in this weather"
Sums it up really.
Seconded on that about driving standards. Then add into the mix the 'extra' commercial pressures of 'this load has to be there by
XYZ' ( I'm sure that there will be some that says "this doesn't happen". )
But Primarily, which ever way you look at it, the answer will be poor driving standards at some level.
[Edited on 5/11/11 by jollygreengiant]
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
MakeEverything
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DixieTheKid
Its a filtering lane, not a bullying lane!
In actual fact, its an accelleration lane. Youre supposed to accellerate to match the speed of traffic, and the give way line to enter the motorway
means that you should give way to the traffic already there. How many times have we seen people having to stop at the end of the accelleration lane
rather than use their eyes and mirrors to select an appropriate space, match the traffic speed pull out safely?
The biggest problem with driving now, is that people are taught to pass the driving test, not how to drive competently.
A terrible thing for anyone to experience or witness.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
|
|
|
MakeEverything
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:29 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
When I heard the line "worst UK road accident in living times" I feared the worst. I'm sure those involved and effected by the crash
would say it wasn't a good evening but I'm sure I recall bigger pile-ups. Lets hope those who died did so without suffering. I really
don't fancy being burnt alive.
The line i saw was "after one of Britain’s worst ever pile-ups on the M5 motorway in Somerset. "
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
|
|
|
NeilP
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 03:42 PM |
|
|
My parents live in Dorset so I know that junction all two well. It's a long sliproad up to the motorway, two lanes and then the motorway
northbound is an upwards gradient from there.
Utter speculation on my part based on the aerial footage but for over twenty years I've been using that junction and on several occasions
I've followed HGVs up that sliproad parallel to each other and then they just both haul out into the first and second lanes with the traffic
already on the motorway having to rapidly pull out to get out of the way. Add in a little fog as that's one of the low points in the vale and
by a river...
Almost lost one of my guys at work this week in a near miss RTA - terrible reminder of how sedate motoring can turn into a nightmare in seconds.
Very very sad  All take extra care out on the roads there both with our toys and our tintops eh?...
If you pay peanuts...
Mentale, yar? Yar, mentale!
Drive it like you stole it!
|
|
|
Badger_McLetcher
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 04:01 PM |
|
|
Just found out that a very good mate of mine and leader of my reenactment company was killed in this crash. To say I am shocked is an
understatement... I just feel sorry for his wife and children, I can't imagine how hard it must be on them.
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 05:37 PM |
|
|
sorry to hear that badger
Some witness reports seem to imply that smoke was blowing across the carrigeway, from a nearby bonfire. 'Visibility down to 3m for about 200
yards, causing lots of braking'
Bad news.
|
|
|
hootsno1
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 06:01 PM |
|
|
Being a HGV driver myself there are more PRICK'S in cars that just think they can pull out off a slip road and in front of HGVs and a lot more
PRICK'S in cars that think it’s alright to pull in front of a HGV at the last minute just pull of the motorway I have a camera fitted to the
front of my lorry that starts to record as soon as the lorry is started and every day down load the sd card to a computer and shows at least 3/4 car
and van drivers a day trying to meet there maker much sooner than should. sometimes they don't always make it and the playback on the camera
makes it so much easier for the insurance company to prove that it’s the car, van driver is at fault.
[img] [/img]
If a little hammer won't fix it get a bigger hammer
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 06:21 PM |
|
|
I read it as the smoke from the bonfire that was the main cause and deepest sympathies to all who lost friends and family. I keep off motorways as
much as possible because of the tension on there and have seen people race you up slip roads to beat the traffic on the motorway instead of filtering
in. I was in a line of traffic pulling the trailer tent near Sheffield earlier this year and had a foreign gentleman driving a taxi trying to push me
into a lane that was already full while driving alongside me on the hard shoulder waving like a lunatic. Should you let them in or make them drive
properly?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
Litemoth
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 07:38 PM |
|
|
They said something on the news about a firework display..it doesn't take much for some people to be distracted...
..I use the M4 daily and hardly a day goes by without some selfish loon driving dangerously near me. The number one favourite act of stupidity seems
to be tailgating and driving too close. Thank god the car technology has improved so much...brakes, crumple zones and airbags can oly do so
much...some people need to be removed from the road and retrained...they concentrate on catching speeders when they should be targeting people who
just cant drive....
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 5/11/11 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
Right then, I reckon its down to speed, and driving too close... most car drivers drive too close and too fast.
I'm driving trucks now and my current truck does 49mph MAX.. and I still have to jam the brakes on to avoid car drivers swapping lanes and
exiting far too late..
I'm surprised this type of crash doesn't happen everyday, I drive down the M1 everyday and wish my eyes could record the road ahead, that
would show some shameless driving.
Driving down the M1 @ J21 south bound at 5pm is an eye opener, cars diving in, undertaking, heavy braking, swapping lanes is scary indeed, how
there's not a pile up here I'm amazed..
Driving standards are very poor indeed, a raise to 80mph on our motorways? No way!
I think moving from lane 3 to exit AFTER the last 100 yard marker should be jail able!
All down to car drivers not getting any motorway driving training before they pass their test then totally ignoring the highway codes advise....
I shake my head at whoever caused the accident (heavy braking) but feel real sorry for those you have lost loved ones...
[Edited on 5/11/11 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
RK
|
| posted on 6/11/11 at 12:13 AM |
|
|
People think they are invincible. They are wrong.
|
|
|
Pete - Kit Car Zone
|
| posted on 6/11/11 at 12:50 AM |
|
|
It's a great shame when something like this happens and our condolences are all with those affected by the accident.
I haven't seen all of the details yet but unfortunately accidents happen no matter how alert and well prepared we are. It may just have been an
accident rather than being due to anyone's driving. I have to say though, it does make me wonder why more companies aren't selling safety
stuff into the kit market such as airbag kits etc. I'm sure their would be a sufficient demand, especially from the touring market.
|
|
|
jollygreengiant
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 06:40 PM |
|
|
Well, the powers that be seem to be going after the Rugby Club with a vengence and wanting to blame it all on the smoke from their bonfire. BUT if you
take a look at the picture I saw in the daily mail today
linky to pic (I'm
sure there are others) of the scene from above, then I am fairly sure that it tell all you need to know.
There are a few cars shunted out to the front (these probably were at the front and would have been the first to be hit from behind), but, behind
these the first two trucks are interesting. the first one in the nearside lane has obviously pulled up straight with possibly only a minor
(relatively) shunting of the car in front. However the on immediately behind and to the Offside speaks volumes. The starting point of this truck would
have been behind the first and he has quite clearly been forced to pull out from behind and across lane 2 and into lane 3 during his braking so that
he avoided the rear of the truck in front. There are only two possible reasons for this action by the second lorry, either he was distracted and not
paying attention (driving without due care and attention) OR he was travelling too close to the vehicle infront (also to my mind driving without due
care and attention). Either way the result was that this second truck compromised lanes 2 and three instantly turning a minor (relatively) incident
into a major accident and then most of those caught in the accident behind were also involved due to similar fault. Some were driving too close to the
vehicle in front OR distracted.
Give your self distance from the vehicle in front and these thing should not happen.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 07:10 PM |
|
|
Lets be a bit realistic before we start blaming specific drivers. Imagine you're pootling along at 60mph and come across an inpenetrable bank of
fog. In reality, no one is going to not drive into it, though it would seem that that would be the safe thing to have done. If you slow down, someone
will cram you from behind, and if you dont slow down, you will ram someone else who has slowed down. We're talking 3m visibility, thats roughly
0.1 seconds at 60.
You cant assume its caused by everyone driving too close and too fast, simply because everyone ALWAYS drives too fast and close, and yet you very
rarely see 30 cars piling into an accident. When ive seen accidents in the past, even when everyone does an emergency stop, its quite rare for more
collisions to happen. So something out of the ordinary must have happened here.
I do feel sorry for the people who organised the fireworks/bonfire. Technically its a crime to have a fire where smoke crosses a highway, but how the
hell were they supposed to know where it would blow? And with 1000 people waiting for a display, they couldnt have called it off anyway.
|
|
|
DixieTheKid
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 08:05 PM |
|
|
quote:
In actual fact, its an accelleration lane. Youre supposed to accellerate to match the speed of traffic, and the give way line to enter the
motorway means that you should give way to the traffic already there. How many times have we seen people having to stop at the end of the
accelleration lane rather than use their eyes and mirrors to select an appropriate space, match the traffic speed pull out safely?
The biggest problem with driving now, is that people are taught to pass the driving test, not how to drive competently.
A terrible thing for anyone to experience or witness.
As per my previous post, genuine love to all of those that have suffered.
but.....
I have to agree and disagree with that comment. A slip road is for filtering onto a motorway, daul carriage way or what even it may be. Yes of course
accellerating up to motorway speed is the ideal. However what happens in the event of us HGV drivers that can only do 56mph? Undertake...? No because
thats illegal even though you all do it. I agreed that motorist are ment to give way but this in not alway possible because of the " middle lane
hoggers ", heavy traffic and others. Just remember, HGV's cannot slow as fast as cars, nor can cars & trailler/caravans etc or even
speed up as fast (i.e. heavy loads of the back). Be mindful of these things when pulling in that tight gap between the truck and the car, be mindful
of that when coming onto the slip road thinking you can make it because one day you wont! We leave these gaps for a reason!
Its not alway the case that people have stopped due to not using their mirrors, its also due to the fact the people dont, cant slow or even move to
the middle lane for the above reasons.
Your comment about the driving test! I couldnt agree more, my thoughts are that all drivers should have a more indepth tests which should include
intense motorway driving not just as an option of a pass plus. You think that all new drivers or old including me & you, dont have to even set a
tyre on a motorway and still pass their test. You would never get a HGV licence without going on a motorway so why should a car?
Ill be honest thats the reason im not longer a prossional driver, to may idiots on the road! Very sorry to all of you genuine drivers out there, i
appreciate most of you are.
Kind regards,
Chris
COS IT'S Worth IT
|
|
|
karlak
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 08:36 PM |
|
|
Not wishing to fuel the lorry v's car debate and detract from the very sad topic of this thread.
But, why do lorry's drive so close to other lorrys on the M1 etc. I saw three today who must have had less than 1/2 second between them. I was
told that they do this to save fuel with the slip-stream effect, but surely the obvious increase in danger would negate any fuel savings.
Just a thought and observation I have made while driving on the motorways over the weekend.
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
|
|
|
DixieTheKid
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 08:43 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by karlak
Not wishing to fuel the lorry v's car debate and detract from the very sad topic of this thread.
But, why do lorry's drive so close to other lorrys on the M1 etc. I saw three today who must have had less than 1/2 second between them. I was
told that they do this to save fuel with the slip-stream effect, but surely the obvious increase in danger would negate any fuel savings.
Just a thought and observation I have made while driving on the motorways over the weekend.
Two reasons,
1. Because he/she/there a dick head!
2. To they are about to over take.
No excuse if the indicator is not on.
Edit: they may be Polish owner drives saving fuel. Is so left them carry on if they only injure them selves.
[Edited on 7/11/11 by DixieTheKid]
COS IT'S Worth IT
|
|
|
JoelP
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 08:53 PM |
|
|
You can save 40% on you fuel consumption by slipping - its no suprise drivers are tempted. Bit daft in a lorry though, with it being so heavy.
|
|
|
DixieTheKid
|
| posted on 7/11/11 at 09:11 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
You can save 40% on you fuel consumption by slipping - its no suprise drivers are tempted. Bit daft in a lorry though, with it being so heavy.
Did you watch Mithbusters too the other night? If you get really close your MPG goes up believe it or not. Feck driving that close or this happens!
 
Description
COS IT'S Worth IT
|
|
|
