woods1
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| posted on 21/9/13 at 08:14 PM |
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I want a new project! Any advice?
Hi guys, firstly apologise if this is in the wrong section (I had a good look but this seemed the appropriate place to ask this), ive had a really
good research but cant seem to find quite the answer im looking for.
Basically im looking for a nice project over the winter and I want a lotus 7 style car with an SR20DET engine. I love these engines and id be bored of
an N/A engine very quickly as I found out when I bought my 350z and just hated the lack of fettling I could do to it 
Ive seen this engine go into kit cars many times and one is currently for sale that ive been slavering over -
http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/luego-viento-400bhp-kitcar-not-caterham-westfield-locost-robin-hood-mk-indy/1032777676/gallery
But my main question is that ive noticed that the SR20DET gearbox is fairy big, and with the associated intercoolers etc, id want a chassis that is as
big as possible as every bit of room counts. so really, What manufacturer offers the most room in there engine bay/gearbox tunnel to help me with
fitting the engine in without causing too much head ache?
I realise that there is going to be plenty of problems and things I will need to overcome when putting a 250bhp car engine into a small chassis but im
looking to do my homework before I jump in and end up buying one of the smaller chassis out there.
Thanks for any advice in advance as it will really help me with deciding
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daniel mason
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| posted on 21/9/13 at 08:20 PM |
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if you look in the for sale section. its a member on here!
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Tazzzzman1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 08:37 AM |
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Speak with Mike at Roadrunner racing.
Although the SR2 is MX5 based they have done 3 or 4 cars with LS1 & 2 V8's
Also doing an S2000 and an RX8. If you talk with them they will make any necessary changes to tunnel area to accommodate different gearbox's
etc. Best bit is they don't charge much for this tailor made service...HTH
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woods1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 10:05 AM |
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I don't think I'd be able to afford to build a full kit. Been mostly looking at 5-6k for a completed can that i can do the swap myself to
save money.
Although if love to build one fully!
Just looking towards any potentially more spacious lotus 7 style chassis
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daniel mason
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 10:14 AM |
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youll find one for that. does it have to have this powerplant or would you be open to bike power? if you get bored with others. these are frantinc
high revving monsters and with the right engine/driver are a match for most high powered stuff on track! not as easy to live with on the road though
but still ok to use as a weekend road toy
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woods1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 10:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
youll find one for that. does it have to have this powerplant or would you be open to bike power? if you get bored with others. these are frantinc
high revving monsters and with the right engine/driver are a match for most high powered stuff on track! not as easy to live with on the road though
but still ok to use as a weekend road toy
I looked into bike engined powered cars but think if just get itchy feet after a while. If I wanted more then it's either massively expensive to
tune a bike engine or big money to fit a bigger busa engine or such.
Sr20dets will go to 250bhp with just an exhaust and an easy 300 with a map. I realise its a heavier option but think it ticks the bill for me
personally.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 10:44 AM |
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why would you need to tune a bike engine? unless your a very good race driver id say you will never be able to drive it to its full potential.
look at adithorp vids on youtube (adi fury) on there. standard r1 engine and pretty much nothing can keep up on track,apart from race cars etc.
likewise the rgb race series who all (or most) run sub 1000cc engines and road tyres aere very very fast.
but if you really want that specific powerplant im sure it will go really well also on the road and power delivery will be brutal. good luck with the
search
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woods1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 11:06 AM |
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Oh yea I complety understand that any bike engined kit car would massively outweigh my talent on a track and if probably never max out how fast I
could drive the car. I've seen evos overtaken by clios on track and big stuff massively shown up. I was at oulton park a few months ago in my
350z and I got wasted by a tr6 and literally couldn't overtake it haha
This car for me is literally a fun fast road car that I can take on the track. I love the drama from turbo engines as a bike engine would probably be
just as fast if not quicker around a track but this is purely a grin factor car that will hopefully put a massive smile on my face
Just wanting to see if I'd be better with a certain type of chassis to try and minimise clearance issues
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 11:34 AM |
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Hi.
The engine wedges into a wide tunnel striker quite nicely so you don't necessarily have to rule out small kits. (Its probably one of the
smallest out there).I think rather than worrying about the size of the box so much its the overall height of the engine which will cause you more
issues in most kits.there was no way I could fit it under the striker front bodywork but that didnt bother me because I don't like them anyway!
Good luck with what you choose. Is a great engine in the kit, really driveable anywhere,plod at tickover in 5th (can take off on the tickover in
4th!)or drop it into boost and watch the world go backwards!
Chris
[Edited on 22/9/13 by StrikerChris]
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woods1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 12:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StrikerChris
Hi.
The engine wedges into a wide tunnel striker quite nicely so you don't necessarily have to rule out small kits. (Its probably one of the
smallest out there).I think rather than worrying about the size of the box so much its the overall height of the engine which will cause you more
issues in most kits.there was no way I could fit it under the striker front bodywork but that didnt bother me because I don't like them anyway!
Good luck with what you choose. Is a great engine in the kit, really driveable anywhere,plod at tickover in 5th (can take off on the tickover in
4th!)or drop it into boost and watch the world go backwards!
Chris
[Edited on 22/9/13 by StrikerChris]
Ahhhhh, sorry but does that come from you building one with an SR20 in? Any advice or build thread pictures I could see?
Yea I'm in the same situation as I'm not worried at all about the height as il just cut the bonett to suit and if it sticks out wards then
so be it rather it perform than worry about having the rocker cover cut out. I've just seen a build thread of an sr20 in an locust andhe had
quiet a few problems fitting the gearbox in the tunnel.
Also it seems I would be better staying away from escort axels as the torque of the engine would wreck them? (Please correct me if I'm
mistaken)
Sorry also as I'm still learning about the makes and manufactures but as for the fairly popular makes like; Westfield, MK etc you think i
shouldn't be too worried about fitting it in? As the "striker"' is small in terms of kit cars are they?
Sorry about all the questions too
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 01:17 PM |
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Mine is a Raw Striker, and has irs (independent rear suspension) so when building it I used the 200sx lsd diff too.Usually they are built using a
Sierra diff.earlier strikers which may have been live axle were probably sylva strikers before Raw engineering bought the patterns, but not really too
sure about all the history. Im fortunate in that I was in the position to be able to make,machine weld almost anything in the workshop at home, or in
my ahem lunchbreaks if I couldn't do them at home, so adapting everything mechanically wasn't a problem for me.If you have to pay for
things like this I can imagine cost could escalate quite easily. The worst thing for me was the electrics.i dont do wires or black boxes and there
were an awful lot of them! Got there in the end tho streadily picking at it.
Anyway basically anything can be done, but the only definite thing I can tell you is the engine and box fit in a WIDE tunnel striker with just
mounting mods.I dont have a build diary but the www button on my profile has afew pics.
Chris
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woods1
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 01:38 PM |
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How long time wise do you estimate it took to fit and get the engine running? Hours wise at a fairly largf guesstimate?
I'm lucky I'm a time served welder and a design engineer so most of the parts il need I can 3d model and that makes fabrication so much
easier as it takes all the guess work out.
Il be looking to buy a car with as you said an ideprndent rear end and seirra rear diff that I'm sure will be okay to handle the power as long
as I don't start doing big launches.
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 22/9/13 at 06:38 PM |
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Ive no idea to be honest. I spent years building mine from scratch, held back financially at times, lack of enthusiasm at others..knowing what I know
now (which I didnt before) with a bare car and an engine fitted, in the right place id set aside a weekend to get the engine running sweet plumbed and
wired neatly.if your modding a chassis to take your engine, and having to alter all thats there, take a guess and add a week of uninterupted work if
you have all materials at hand, dont have to keep nipping off for consumables and a proper methodical plan.youll have it in and out a dozen times
measuring,altering,measuring again.mine was easy starting from scratch I guess and there was still alot of that.then theres also the change of weight
if you're converting a chassis, ie brake bias spring rates etc.
Basically what im saying is aim for next summer but realistically dont be atall suprised if it snowballs afew years!
Ive put a zetec in an xr2 and had it back on the road in a weekend. It was always a shed tho.
Im not trying to put you of at all, but as so many will testify on here it might not be afew weekends work over the winter, but having just got back
from a blast in mine its definetly worth it.
Chris
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woods1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StrikerChris
Ive no idea to be honest. I spent years building mine from scratch, held back financially at times, lack of enthusiasm at others..knowing what I know
now (which I didnt before) with a bare car and an engine fitted, in the right place id set aside a weekend to get the engine running sweet plumbed and
wired neatly.if your modding a chassis to take your engine, and having to alter all thats there, take a guess and add a week of uninterupted work if
you have all materials at hand, dont have to keep nipping off for consumables and a proper methodical plan.youll have it in and out a dozen times
measuring,altering,measuring again.mine was easy starting from scratch I guess and there was still alot of that.then theres also the change of weight
if you're converting a chassis, ie brake bias spring rates etc.
Basically what im saying is aim for next summer but realistically dont be atall suprised if it snowballs afew years!
Ive put a zetec in an xr2 and had it back on the road in a weekend. It was always a shed tho.
Im not trying to put you of at all, but as so many will testify on here it might not be afew weekends work over the winter, but having just got back
from a blast in mine its definetly worth it.
Chris
Could you possibly post some pics of your car and especially the engine bay just to give me an idea? ive got quite a few questions if you would be
willing to answer them
Did you have any trouble fitting in your alternator in the chassis?
Any engine mount pics?
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 08:59 PM |
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If you email me at some point I'll try and dig some more specific pictures out, most are on my pc at work. Christopher.jones@upm.com .
the only pics online are at
pics
if any of them are any help.the alternator wasnt an issue no.
Chris
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woods1
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| posted on 23/9/13 at 09:30 PM |
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WOW!
What a huge undertaking you made building this, literally from scratch. looks amazing now as well and a huge amount of custom fab gone on here. very
envious of your workshop.
I can 100% say I wont be building one from start, il be buying a completed car and do the engine swap.
Your chassis seems much bigger than a locust build I've been watching -
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?523019-Locost-sr20det-win/page12
He's had a huge amount of issues with chassis clearance, plenum and alternator fitting in. Very useful to see from your link on the pictures of
your engine mount, very simple bracket tht uses the standard motor rubbers but very effective.
Im definitely inspired to get building! I think id be best waiting to an IRS car to come up for sale as there are many more cars for sale with a rear
axel set up but don't want any headaches down the line with shredding diffs.
Thanks again for all your help and my email address if you get chance to find some more pics is - Lwoods_1@hotmail.com
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 24/9/13 at 11:48 AM |
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Having had a quick look at that thread it looks as if his engine is mounted an awful lot further forward than mine is,(atleast as much as that shelf
with the battery on in front of his scuttle) and my gearlever ended up just about bob on in the car,not too far forward as his did, which probably
explains the he's had fitting things such as the alternator and plenum in.I would be seriously suprised if the striker is a bigger to be
honest.
It says to me that maybe it is worth doing some extra research and finding a chassis that definitely has a wide enough tunnel to get the engine
further back and save on those issues,and an awful lot of time!
Chris
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woods1
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| posted on 24/9/13 at 11:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StrikerChris
Having had a quick look at that thread it looks as if his engine is mounted an awful lot further forward than mine is,(atleast as much as that shelf
with the battery on in front of his scuttle) and my gearlever ended up just about bob on in the car,not too far forward as his did, which probably
explains the he's had fitting things such as the alternator and plenum in.I would be seriously suprised if the striker is a bigger to be
honest.
It says to me that maybe it is worth doing some extra research and finding a chassis that definitely has a wide enough tunnel to get the engine
further back and save on those issues,and an awful lot of time!
Chris
Exactly why I posted this thread as I wouldn't want as many problems as he has had haha
Was hoping for a bigger response really to give me some more insight into the sizes of these, but even myself who has only seen them from the outside
cant see a huge amount of difference beteween the the different manufactures except maybe an inch or so either way??? its not like there any visually
different to a huge extent.
I was a bit shocked by your sump clearance though from your pics. It looks like it has no more than an inch if clearance from the road and is the
lowest point of the car, or is that just how it looks in the pics?
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 24/9/13 at 02:19 PM |
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Yeah I had to ditch the sump pan and alter the pickup,and fill it up to the bottom of the crank,so it still takes the same amount of oil.Ive had no
problems with oil pressure but ideally the next job would be to dry sump it before a balls out trackday.The bell housing is now the lowest part,it
rarely catches the deck on half decent roads, even when landing from unexpected jumps but i did make a skid plate for the crap roads around here and
speed bumps.
I'll try to measure the width of the tunnel on the weekend for you.I know the engine and entry to the tunnel are off set to the passenger side
in my chassis,so the passenger has very little foot room but I have no idea of the dimensions of other kits now,it was a long time since I bought my
chassis!
Chris
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woods1
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| posted on 24/9/13 at 02:33 PM |
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Again I'm really sorry about all these questions so bear with me as long as you don't mind haha
You sad you've ditched the sump pan? So you've done what exactly? Very seen from te pics you've modified the oil pickup point which
I understand but not sure wha you've done.
Have you completely ditched the sump and made your own you mean to gain some clearance?
Could you not have mounted the engine higher up or did you not want it to come past the bonnet lines?
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 24/9/13 at 05:09 PM |
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Just ditched the tin bit at the front of the engine where the pickup originally sat, about an inch deep and maybe 10" square, and replaced it
with a flat plate.the internal shape of the remaining alu cast sump pan isnt bad with ribs to baffle to some extent the oil, and still sloped upwards
towards the rear so i cant ever see it getting starved under acceleration.hard to explain really but i have never come across an engine as well
designed as this was before i removed the pan.you must be able to drive the proper thing with no oil on the dipstick and get away with it!and thats
why I think ive got away with this with filling it to the bottom of the crank, about an inch above the max on the dipstick when completely cold.the
sr20 engine is quite alot different to the earlier engines,both with the alu block and the sump is quite alot different despite being essentially the
same engine.i didn't realise until I had a proper look at a friends car whos trying to do a similar thing with his kit, that engine came out of
an m reg, mine was R plate 14a, not sure if his was a 14 or im suspicious it may have been an s13 although thats not what he was lead to believe..i
just stuck this together because someone wrote off my daily driver 14a about 10 years ago.im no nissan nor kitcar geek so I dont know everything, just
what I have come across myself.
Chris
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