gingerprince
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 02:33 PM |
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Towbar electrics - vehicle specific vs universal
Hi All
So sold my Subaru earlier in the year (to make way for an F-Type V8) - but now I no longer have anything to tow the MK to track days.
Enter my Mrs' car - 2018 SEAT Leon (VAG), and looking to get a detachable installed on there.
It's 3 years old - but came with 2 years extended manufacturer (not dealer) warranty.
Looking to get a towbar fitted - they "recommend" vehicle specific wiring if still under warranty - but you're looking at an extra 300
quid by the time it's been programmed.
My Subaru was just universal - beeper at reverse - no stability control to care about, didn't turn the fog light off etc. But that was fitted 15
years ago.
This day and age - and getting one fitted now - would you stump up the extra for vehicle specific (and code it for the car), or go with universal?
How good really is the stability control etc?
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peter030371
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 03:17 PM |
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I went vehicle specific on the camper van. Turns off the reversing sensors and works fine with CAN bus lights. The non-specific kits are a bit more of
a compromise and really not that much cheaper once fitting is included.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 03:25 PM |
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I went for universal on my 2014 mk8 transit, (PF jones) went in fine and works spot on. Mine didnt affect the rev sensors, but on a normal trailer
elec the reverse isnt used, so would have been easy enough to wire up relay or an overide switch.
Mistral Motorsport
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nick205
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 03:32 PM |
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Can't comment/advise on tow bars, but 2004 I had a Seat Leon company car. Liked the car, but it didn't have cruise control and I was doing
many many motorway miles.
I asked the Seat main dealer if cruise could be added?
Yes, it's a change of stalk on the steering column and then has to be activated in the vehicle electrics.
Price £400.
This was in 2004 remember and it would have been out of my pocket not the company's or vehicle lease people.
I passed and drove it as it was.
The main dealer went on to explain the capability was already in the vehicle, just not activated.
I suspect this involved plugging in a laptop and ticking a box on screen!
Either way, when it comes to towing and certainly with newer vehicles I'd be inclined to have it done properly and coded into the vehicle. When
you come to sell the vehicle buyers will probably ask you the question.
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Duncan Grier
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 03:39 PM |
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If you can get a good deal oem kit all the way, fitted myself on the car some years back and got friendly garage to turn module on and was
great....also took off car after and got a decent amount bk (skoda vrs estate so will be very similar)
Nice clean plug and play loom, quick change to turn on the module via software and as mentioned turns off car reverse light when connected, also
disables car fog light
Also stability control adjusted which is a nice addition
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 03:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Can't comment/advise on tow bars, but 2004 I had a Seat Leon company car. Liked the car, but it didn't have cruise control and I was doing
many many motorway miles.
I asked the Seat main dealer if cruise could be added?
Yes, it's a change of stalk on the steering column and then has to be activated in the vehicle electrics.
Price £400.
This was in 2004 remember and it would have been out of my pocket not the company's or vehicle lease people.
I passed and drove it as it was.
The main dealer went on to explain the capability was already in the vehicle, just not activated.
I suspect this involved plugging in a laptop and ticking a box on screen!
Either way, when it comes to towing and certainly with newer vehicles I'd be inclined to have it done properly and coded into the vehicle. When
you come to sell the vehicle buyers will probably ask you the question.
I don't know about the Seat, but I can confirm that it was that easy on a 2012 Vauxhall Zafira.
I bought a 4 year old one, without cruise control. As I have arthritic knees, holding the constant angle on the accelerator on motorway journeys was
painful, so I wanted to add cruise control.
I bought the correct stalk online, for £15. Changing that took 20 seconds - simply push a thin tool (I used an Allen key) down the side of the stalk,
behind the rubber and pull, then push the new one in until it clicks.
I also bought a OBD2 USB link for my laptop (another £20), that came with a version of the Vauxhall software. That just needed a box ticking in three
places (engine management ECU, braking ECU and body ECU probably, but I can't remember), to tell it that it had cruise control.
That was it. All done.
I also fitted a towbar and a dedicated electronic module. Again the same software let me tell the car that it had the module fitted - why it does not
just autodetect that, I don't know.
The prices charged by the manufacturers to enable software, that they have already written and installed, is totally ridiculous.
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Sanzomat
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 05:31 PM |
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Your money, your car, your choice. When I had lease cars the lease firm insisted on vehicle specific, same for when I had company cars so I had to pay
up which always stung as I typically kept the car for only 3 years and sometimes when changing jobs a lot less.
Since jacking it in I bought a four year old out of warranty Focus and I fitted the towbar myself. I went for generic electrics with a full bypass
relay so it just adds a tiny load for the relay coil to the final bulb circuit so doesn't mess with the canbus. All the wiring is then under the
boot floor and no need to take wires forwards to the dash. Beeper for the indicators. Watching previous professional fitters installing the vehicle
specific kits they had half the trim apart running wires from boot to dashboard so far from plug and play (VW Passat & BMW). Things like
cancelling the reverse lights and sensors are no big deal - only reverse once at the end of the journey! I'm not sure how much they alter the
stability control but when towing you are usually going a lot slower so I don't see the point and I've never had a tank slapper with a
lightweight car on a trailer - those are usually just for overloaded caravans with the wrong noseweight!
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rf900rush
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 07:07 PM |
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I Had no option but to have fitted a VW approived vehicle specific tow bar on a 2016 VW golf. Over £800 
I does Sort out the reversing bleepers when towing.
If the Seat is like the Golf the last thing you need is the car bleeping when you are trying to sort out the stupid elelectric hand break.
For example , if you open the door to look at the trailer when reversing in a tight spot it puts the brakes on.
Then you need to play around with the brake setting.
Things are all good now, ditched the new car for a 2003 Estate.
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ianhurley20
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| posted on 5/10/22 at 09:21 PM |
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I've done this on a few cars now and used the basic bypass relay and towed a 1 ton caravan, a 1 ton yacht, a car trailer (with kit car) and more
frequently a 750kg multi use trailer. Last car I even removed the towbar and electrics and fitted it to the new car of same make. Cost very low and ok
it does not automatically turn on or off various sytems but I've done many hundreds of miles in various weather conditions and had no issues. I
did work professionally with a Discovery TDV6 towing a 3.5 ton exhibition unit with tachograph and hours of driving thingy which had been done to
manufacturer standards but honestly can't see the difference. P F Jones do some systems that are cheaper clones of manufacturer systems but would
I pay for the extra - no way!
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SJ
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 08:46 AM |
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Universal for me on my 2017 Mazda 6. The dealers wanted I think £700 to fit the towbar and vehicle specific electrics.
I went for a Brink towbar and universal relay which was £130 and I fitted it in less than 2 hours.
Works perfecly, and was a no-brainer for me to go for the cheaper option.
Had no issues whether towing my boat or MGB on a trailer.
[Edited on 6/10/22 by SJ]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 12:10 PM |
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Just another way of extracting as much cash out a customer as possible. Nothing stopping manufacturers having a plug at the back and captive nuts in
the body. Mind that quite a lot of towbars require a cut out the bumper, not great if the car is on finance. So many manufactures don't even
bother getting their cars rated for towing, again just to save money in approval.
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SJ
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 01:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Just another way of extracting as much cash out a customer as possible. Nothing stopping manufacturers having a plug at the back and captive nuts in
the body. Mind that quite a lot of towbars require a cut out the bumper, not great if the car is on finance. So many manufactures don't even
bother getting their cars rated for towing, again just to save money in approval.
I got lucky with mine in that the brink bar didn't need anything to be changed on the car and just bolter straight on. The electrics were dead
easy on the Mazda as well
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nick205
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 02:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Can't comment/advise on tow bars, but 2004 I had a Seat Leon company car. Liked the car, but it didn't have cruise control and I was doing
many many motorway miles.
I asked the Seat main dealer if cruise could be added?
Yes, it's a change of stalk on the steering column and then has to be activated in the vehicle electrics.
Price £400.
This was in 2004 remember and it would have been out of my pocket not the company's or vehicle lease people.
I passed and drove it as it was.
The main dealer went on to explain the capability was already in the vehicle, just not activated.
I suspect this involved plugging in a laptop and ticking a box on screen!
Either way, when it comes to towing and certainly with newer vehicles I'd be inclined to have it done properly and coded into the vehicle. When
you come to sell the vehicle buyers will probably ask you the question.
I don't know about the Seat, but I can confirm that it was that easy on a 2012 Vauxhall Zafira.
I bought a 4 year old one, without cruise control. As I have arthritic knees, holding the constant angle on the accelerator on motorway journeys was
painful, so I wanted to add cruise control.
I bought the correct stalk online, for £15. Changing that took 20 seconds - simply push a thin tool (I used an Allen key) down the side of the stalk,
behind the rubber and pull, then push the new one in until it clicks.
I also bought a OBD2 USB link for my laptop (another £20), that came with a version of the Vauxhall software. That just needed a box ticking in three
places (engine management ECU, braking ECU and body ECU probably, but I can't remember), to tell it that it had cruise control.
That was it. All done.
I also fitted a towbar and a dedicated electronic module. Again the same software let me tell the car that it had the module fitted - why it does not
just autodetect that, I don't know.
The prices charged by the manufacturers to enable software, that they have already written and installed, is totally ridiculous.
Steve
1. Thanks for confirming my suspicion of how easy it must be to add cruise control.
2. At the time I had a company car that my employer had leased so messing about with it to that level was a big NO NO. If anything had gone wrong
I'd have been liable for the repair cost.
3. Agreed - main dealers being able to charge big sums to "enable" what's already in the vehicle is a shame. It probably puts many
motorists off even considering having such mods done.
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nick205
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 02:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Just another way of extracting as much cash out a customer as possible. Nothing stopping manufacturers having a plug at the back and captive nuts in
the body. Mind that quite a lot of towbars require a cut out the bumper, not great if the car is on finance. So many manufactures don't even
bother getting their cars rated for towing, again just to save money in approval.
RE: manufacturers not getting their cars rated for towing - this is a valid point!
We replaced our car recently with a Skoda Kodiaq. When looking for a bike carrier I considerered a towbar mounted bike carrier. The cost of having a
towbar fitted and wired in put me off. When I investigated, it meant having the plastic rear bumper removed/modified and the steel bumper behind that
changed. The vehicle can have a tow bar fitted, but the towing rating for the vehilce isn't great.
We never even wanted to tow - it was just a means of getting a bike rack fitted!
Found an alternative bike rack solution in the end that secures to the tailgate. Lower overall cost + smaller and easier to store when not in use.
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 05:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Can't comment/advise on tow bars, but 2004 I had a Seat Leon company car. Liked the car, but it didn't have cruise control and I was doing
many many motorway miles.
I asked the Seat main dealer if cruise could be added?
Yes, it's a change of stalk on the steering column and then has to be activated in the vehicle electrics.
Price £400.
This was in 2004 remember and it would have been out of my pocket not the company's or vehicle lease people.
I passed and drove it as it was.
The main dealer went on to explain the capability was already in the vehicle, just not activated.
I suspect this involved plugging in a laptop and ticking a box on screen!
Either way, when it comes to towing and certainly with newer vehicles I'd be inclined to have it done properly and coded into the vehicle. When
you come to sell the vehicle buyers will probably ask you the question.
I don't know about the Seat, but I can confirm that it was that easy on a 2012 Vauxhall Zafira.
I bought a 4 year old one, without cruise control. As I have arthritic knees, holding the constant angle on the accelerator on motorway journeys was
painful, so I wanted to add cruise control.
I bought the correct stalk online, for £15. Changing that took 20 seconds - simply push a thin tool (I used an Allen key) down the side of the stalk,
behind the rubber and pull, then push the new one in until it clicks.
I also bought a OBD2 USB link for my laptop (another £20), that came with a version of the Vauxhall software. That just needed a box ticking in three
places (engine management ECU, braking ECU and body ECU probably, but I can't remember), to tell it that it had cruise control.
That was it. All done.
I also fitted a towbar and a dedicated electronic module. Again the same software let me tell the car that it had the module fitted - why it does not
just autodetect that, I don't know.
The prices charged by the manufacturers to enable software, that they have already written and installed, is totally ridiculous.
Steve
1. Thanks for confirming my suspicion of how easy it must be to add cruise control.
2. At the time I had a company car that my employer had leased so messing about with it to that level was a big NO NO. If anything had gone wrong
I'd have been liable for the repair cost.
3. Agreed - main dealers being able to charge big sums to "enable" what's already in the vehicle is a shame. It probably puts many
motorists off even considering having such mods done.
It's worse than that. Recently one manufacturer (BMW possibly) was quoting hundreds of pounds as a one-off payment or a monthly subscription, to
remotely enable the heated seats that are fitted as standard on all the cars in that range!
[Edited on 6/10/22 by SteveWalker]
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Simon
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| posted on 6/10/22 at 07:07 PM |
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"
It's worse than that. Recently one manufacturer (BMW possibly) was quoting hundreds of pounds as a one-off payment or a monthly subscription, to
remotely enable the heated seats that are fitted as standard on all the cars in that range!"
Yep, friend if mine told me you can "hire" certain features like aircon in the summer. He's got a BMW, with that and all the nanny
state stuff bmw gives you, I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial barge pole
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nick205
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| posted on 7/10/22 at 08:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
"
It's worse than that. Recently one manufacturer (BMW possibly) was quoting hundreds of pounds as a one-off payment or a monthly subscription, to
remotely enable the heated seats that are fitted as standard on all the cars in that range!"
Yep, friend if mine told me you can "hire" certain features like aircon in the summer. He's got a BMW, with that and all the nanny
state stuff bmw gives you, I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial barge pole
....wwwwwhat?
I'm all for tin tops giving drivers service remiders, but hiring features on them IMHO just seems like big brother taking over. Why not have
your employer pay your salary direct to the main dealer and skip the pain of it going in/out of your bank account?
It's a bit like Microsoft moving towards not wanting to sell you Windows any more for your PC, but asking you to (as they're doing) to rent
it. Their selling point seems to be that you're always up to date with the latest versions. Again IMHO I'm quite happy with a static
version thanks even if it goes out of date for a while.
I get that the the world has to change and I suppose we're starting to see that change happen at a fair pace already!
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Simon
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| posted on 7/10/22 at 12:19 PM |
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The "parental" controls are very intrusive too - the car will fight you when changing lanes without indicating, the parking sensors over
intrusive etc.
I'm thinking of going older and older atm just to stop big brother interference
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loggyboy
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| posted on 7/10/22 at 01:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
"
It's worse than that. Recently one manufacturer (BMW possibly) was quoting hundreds of pounds as a one-off payment or a monthly subscription, to
remotely enable the heated seats that are fitted as standard on all the cars in that range!"
Yep, friend if mine told me you can "hire" certain features like aircon in the summer. He's got a BMW, with that and all the nanny
state stuff bmw gives you, I wouldn't touch one with the proverbial barge pole
Its been a little Daily mailed, the option to purchase them outright when you buy the car is much like any other optional extra. I remember buying
cars in 80s and finding things like switches and wiring for rear wipers and 'activating them' by just buying a motor and arm. Its nothing
that new having integrated items disabled or partially installed.
[Edited on 7-10-22 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 7/10/22 at 05:54 PM |
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There is a big difference. The cost of writing the software and of providing the hardware has already been incurred. Then they are charging
significant sums on top, just to enable what is already there and costs them nothing more than a few pounds to enable.
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nick205
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| posted on 8/10/22 at 09:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
There is a big difference. The cost of writing the software and of providing the hardware has already been incurred. Then they are charging
significant sums on top, just to enable what is already there and costs them nothing more than a few pounds to enable.
Have to agree.
As a real world example a VW Passat company car I had was chosen at the pretty much base model to minimise my personal company car tax.
No rear speakers.
The loom was there, speaker grilles etc just no speakers. These were £230 on the extras list.
4 1/2" speakers
I bought a pair and fitted them myself £80.
Left them in when the car went back 3 years later.
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