On my Indy r with inboard suspension as ye all know the link rod from the inboard suspension to the bottom wishbone has 2 10mm rosejoints .
Now the bottom rosejoint is connected to the wishbone with a 10mm bolt. Now my problem is the bracket on the wishbone is drilled 12.5mm .. Now you see the problem
I have a large amount of play . Now I phoned Mk and they say just tighten it up and it should be ok. To me this seems unexceptable for any car not alone a race car..
As no matter how tight you go on the nut the play will always be there and eventually ovaling the hole and ether the bracket failing or bolt shearing .
My reckoning I will have to remove the wishbone and reweld new brackets to my nicely powercoated wishbones ... And get them re powercoated
Any ideas!!!!!!!

What size is the rose joint? If it's 12mm then you're just using the wrong bolt. If it's a 10mm rose joint, then I wouldn't want to cut off your brackets and reweld new ones on, I'd be tempted to get a thick and wide washer with a 10mm hole and weld that onto each side of the bracket.

Alternatively, swap rosejoints for 1/2" ones?

Yeah welding washers I had tought of but washers just would not have a close enough tolerance as a properly drilled bracket to the correct size .. I can't chage to 1/2 as 1/2 Rose joint has a 1/2 thread which wouldn't thread into the 10mm thread on the rod .. That's what has happened the rod are 10mm and the brackets are 1/2

Could you not make, or have made a pair of top hat shaped spacers/washers? You would not need to weld them as they would be retained by the 10mm bolt.

Alternative is as above to use a 1/2" rose joint. the drill for tapping is 11.5mm so you can just drill out your 10mm thread in the rod. again a nice easy job in a lathe (everybody needs a lathe - go on you know you do......)

you could try using side spacers that have od 12mm and with 10mm id, so you slip the side spacer ito the 12mm hole, one into each side of the bracket, then when the bolt is tightened it should be ok. May not be to everybody's cup of tea but it has worked for me.

These are all fair suggestions as to workarounds, bodges and more work but I would have to ask why it should be necessary to do this. A 10mm bolt through a 12.5mm bracket with the advice to just tighten it up to clamp it isn't the best approach really is it, especially on suspension parts? I appreciate that they would have to spend a bit more to have different Indy and Indy R lower wishbones or the push rod needs to be made so that it will take a 12.5mm or 1/2" rose joint at the bottom end so there is a bit more cost and effort but if that's what it takes to provide a proper solution, that's what should be done.

agree that all these suggestions are fine but the error is on the part of the manufacturer so if a part such as a top hat spacer is needed surely they should be supplying it, sounds almost Tigerish!

just make new push rods that will take a bigger rose joint or retap your old push rods. the other solution is to weld a couple of thick penny washers to the outside of the bracket

Where on earth did the 12.5mm dimension come from? Too large for an M12 bolt, not large enough for a 1/2" and completely and utterly inappropriate for an M10. Putting M12's into 1/2" holes is a bad enough bodge (cough, cough GTS), but to suggest that simply tightening it up will be ok is appalling.

Is this a standard problem on the Indy R (i.e. have others suffered the same issue)? The only solution that wouldn't destroy the powder coating is to machine some top hat bushes, but this simply shouldn't be necessary. MK should be sorting this out properly.

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
Where on earth did the 12.5mm dimension come from? Too large for an M12 bolt, not large enough for a 1/2" and completely and utterly inappropriate for an M10. Putting M12's into 1/2" holes is a bad enough bodge (cough, cough GTS), but to suggest that simply tightening it up will be ok is appalling.

Is this a standard problem on the Indy R (i.e. have others suffered the same issue)? The only solution that wouldn't destroy the powder coating is to machine some top hat bushes, but this simply shouldn't be necessary. MK should be sorting this out properly.

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Originally posted by Richard Quinn
I appreciate that they would have to spend a bit more to have different Indy and Indy R lower wishbones or the push rod needs to be made so that it will take a 12.5mm or 1/2" rose joint at the bottom end so there is a bit more cost and effort but if that's what it takes to provide a proper solution, that's what should be done.

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If MK told a customer to 'just tighten it up and it should be ok' they should not be making cars, this is totally unacceptable.

Also, is this a female rose joint held by a bolt?

If it is, one of the unwritten rules with suspension is never to use a female rose joint, always male.

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Originally posted by nick205

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Originally posted by Richard Quinn


If other Indy R builders haven't experienced this problem then obviously something is wrong with the parts...perhaps an Indy M12 suspension bracket was inadvertantly welded to an Indy R wishbone...?



this is exactly what happened .....
but when i rang to explain this ...all i got was no way could this be possible .....

so i will sort this out myself as if i send it back to MK i will be waiting another 2 months to get them back...

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blakep82 - 2/3/11 at 11:34 AM

weld a washer on the bracket. thats what i did when i messed up mine. i mis understood how mine went together (1/2" rose joint, but 3/8" bolt, wtf? ) there's like a side spacer that takes up the space in the rose joint, which i wasn't aware of. what i did was drill out the bracket to 1/2", which was fine, but when i drilled the other side (going through the first hole) the first one ovalled out. welded washers on and its a good tight fit now.

dont know if you can get a M10 with a 12mm hole... i know you get different sized UNF ones, i've got several 5/8" shaft, with 1/2 " hole rose joints on my car

[Edited on 2/3/11 by blakep82]

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procomp - 2/3/11 at 12:29 PM

Hi

Your not the first to have this problem and probably not the last either. Other one i know off gave up after receiving the same advice as yourself. He had new rods made with new 1/2" unf joints to give a finer thread / better thread. Shouldn't really be using metric in a high loaded application anyhow.

Cheers Matt

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TimC - 2/3/11 at 01:11 PM

Yep, just get new push-rods made. There are numerous forum members who could do it if you don't have a good fabricator locally - off the top of my head, and apologies to the many that I've missed-out - NS Dev, Flak Monkey and of course Matt (Procomp) above. I can also recommend Track Developments (07977 948883.) Andy Bates could probably do it too.

I sympathise with you vis-a-vis your problems with a manufacturer. I've had a similar experience with another highly regarded firm. It's extra-frustrating when you read that other people's cars are absolutely A1. I think it is often the case that consistency rather than ability/achievable quality that is the issue.

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procomp - 2/3/11 at 02:18 PM

Hi

Not me Please I'm over worked and running behind at the mo.
I always send people with these sorts of jobs to Flak when I'm to busy to take the small jobs on. Never heard a bad report back so gets my vote.

Cheers Matt

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loggyboy - 2/3/11 at 03:09 PM

Laymans point of view: - surely if a bolt is tight, then its tight, and any play is irelvant, as if the bolt is free to move in the hole, then its not tight enough, and bing a race car, this bolt should be checked regulalrly incase it is working loose. I can under stand its not ideal in case the bolt did come loose, but with a new nylock and torqued correctly this shouldnt happen anyway.


<--------------- Prepares to be shot down in flames

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Johneturbo - 2/3/11 at 03:30 PM

I guess it doesn't matter how tight you do the bolt up, if there is room for it to move up and down it will. the forces on the pushrod via the suspension would be very high

also so wrong that you would need to have new rods made when you payed for them with your kit


Tim, who have you had bad dealings with? i thought you were loved by everyone!

[Edited on 2/3/11 by Johneturbo]

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TimC - 2/3/11 at 03:53 PM

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Originally posted by Johneturbo
Tim, who have you had bad dealings with? i thought you were loved by everyone!

[Edited on 2/3/11 by Johneturbo]

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Ha, I have absolutely no idea what that is meant to mean - if only that were true. Actually that's not true either - I don't care that much, although it's nice to be nice.

Anyway, rather disappointingly I'm not going to say. Unlike the case highlighted above, the firm concerned did go to some lengths to sort things out - but you can't get back time and some things were never 100% right. Frustratingly, I honestly believe that my major issues were an exception rather than the rule. What's more it was so long ago that it is almost certainly irrelevant to the buying decisions of others now.

No kiss'n'tell from me I'm afraid.

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noc231073 - 2/3/11 at 06:14 PM

thanks for all the info guys think ill just remake the rods.... ...
just delays me even more ....

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mads - 2/3/11 at 07:07 PM

this post got me concerned so went into garage to look at my chassis. I've also got a 12.5mm hole but I have got a M12 bolt going through the rose joint and the hole. There is a tiny bit of play in the bolt, but otherwise it fits fine. Are you sure they haven't just given you the wrong rose joints?

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