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Live/English axle details or CAD
Doctor Derek Doctors - 16/12/13 at 10:20 PM

I'm working on little project (just for my own amusement) where I'm considering using a live rear axle. The vehicle would have ~120-150bhp and be ~450-550kg.

Apart from Range Rovers I have very little knowledge of live axles, I'm looking for the most readily available, and fairly cheap rear axle preferably with ford hubs to keep things simple. From these requirements it seems to be the 'English' axle from an escort.

A few questions:
Does anyone have any feasible alternatives?
Where is good to buy them new/recon/remanufactured?
Do any CAD models exist for these axles?

My ultimate aim is absolute simplicity

[Edited on 16/12/13 by Doctor Derek Doctors]

DavidM - 16/12/13 at 10:34 PM

Escorts were fitted with English, Atlas & Kohln axles. Atlas are the rarest. Cortinas and Capris were also fitted with live axles, the Capri being about 2 inches wider and the Cortina being about 4 inches wider than the Escort. 2.8i special and 280 Brooklands Capris had an LSD.

David

britishtrident - 16/12/13 at 11:04 PM

The english axle banjo tube is very light, nearly all the weight is in the differential carrier. You can get a light alloy diff carrier as originally used by Lotus and subsequently copied by aftermarket at a cost.
English axles come in different widths the Escort axles is 48" across the axle tube. Some Capris used a wider axle.
The Anglia version was narrower.


The Rootes Hillman Hunter axle can be used as a straight subsitute it has the same PCD, substitute it has banjo construction and PCD

Marina Ital and Triumph axles are similar but different PCD.

The Hillman/Chrysler/Talbot Avenger & Sunbeam has the same PCD but is patterned on the Salsbury style.



[Edited on 16/12/13 by britishtrident]

britishtrident - 16/12/13 at 11:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
Escorts were fitted with English, Atlas & Kohln axles. Atlas are the rarest. Cortinas and Capris were also fitted with live axles, the Capri being about 2 inches wider and the Cortina being about 4 inches wider than the Escort. 2.8i special and 280 Brooklands Capris had an LSD.

David



The Cortina only used the the english axle on the Ford UK designed Mk1 & Mk2 and this was the same width as the Escort version.

Bare - 17/12/13 at 03:24 AM

The intent is certainly admirable... every body lusts after simple and light.
But then these were excreable things, even when Current.
And.. it's now 30 years on :-)
Ancient & knackered are only the very first impressions that come to mind.. there are others.

deezee - 17/12/13 at 09:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bare
The intent is certainly admirable... every body lusts after simple and light.
But then these were execrable things, even when Current.
And.. it's now 30 years on :-)
Ancient & knackered are only the very first impressions that come to mind.. there are others.


Old isn't bad, that's a terribly ignorant association to make. Bear in mind that the American market still used live axles up to very recently on their cars. So its obviously not that awful.

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/12/13 at 10:26 AM

Does anybody know of any suppliers? Or of anyone who has a CAD model? Still looking to test the installation in the virtual world.

zekill - 17/12/13 at 02:12 PM

is it what you search for ?
https://grabcad.com/library/ford-9-differential

CNHSS1 - 17/12/13 at 04:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by deezee
[ Bear in mind that the American market still used live axles up to very recently on their cars. So its obviously not that awful.


but to be fair US cars are (a huge generalistation I know...) decades behind Europe and Japan.

Rich J - 17/12/13 at 04:25 PM

New "English" equivalent casings available here

unijacko67 - 17/12/13 at 07:59 PM

I've used Alfa GTV live axle, 108 pcd with discs and LSD standard, very strong half shafts and light ish. A bit hard to find now. you can get 4.1:1 & 4.3:1 if your lucky. Pictures in my archive. I have 196 bhp at the wheels and it seems fine with 760kg car.

I can measure for you, but not to wide and I have added some hub-centric alloy spacers. its known as a 105 Dunlop axle I think. You will get one for about £300-£400 ish.

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/12/13 at 09:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zekill
is it what you search for ?
https://grabcad.com/library/ford-9-differential


We found that one, think it's from a pick-up or something though. Cheers

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/12/13 at 09:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rich J
New "English" equivalent casings available here


Cheers, that was just what I'm looking for.

Doctor Derek Doctors - 17/12/13 at 09:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by unijacko67
I've used Alfa GTV live axle, 108 pcd with discs and LSD standard, very strong half shafts and light ish. A bit hard to find now. you can get 4.1:1 & 4.3:1 if your lucky. Pictures in my archive. I have 196 bhp at the wheels and it seems fine with 760kg car.

I can measure for you, but not to wide and I have added some hub-centric alloy spacers. its known as a 105 Dunlop axle I think. You will get one for about £300-£400 ish.


I think the relative lack of availability will rule it out sadly

britishtrident - 17/12/13 at 09:23 PM

The main downside of live axle is the unsprung weight which unfortunately is concentrated in the centre which is the worst place it could be.

Mallock Clubmans B class cars with live axles went indecently fast.

unijacko67 - 17/12/13 at 09:24 PM

It certainly rules them out for the stock car boys who are snapping half shaft's every other weekends with side impacts, but when faced with buying a baby atlas with lsd it's a real alternative. I've seen (on the internet) these axles destroyed, but with serious serious power on drag type cars. They come up on ebay.

Doctor Derek Doctors - 19/12/13 at 09:07 AM

I'm still struggling to find many dimensions for the English axle. All I can ascertain. Is that the 'widths' are across the casing and not the wheel mounting faces. I did find that a 48.5" axle is 53" wide at the wheel faces. Is this correct? Does anyone have list of the other width English axles and what there true width is a cross the wheel faces?

Also does anyone know how far forward the prop input flange is from the axle centreline? And it looks like it (the input flange) is below the axle centreline? Is this correct and does anybody know by how much?