Firstly may i say IM NOT HAVING A DIG mearly a question.
Now thats done could someone tell me the reasoning behind bikers traveling (what i consider too close) to the back of my car. For example today there was one behind me and couldnt have been more than 6ft behind me at 60?
Please no one take offence to this as above just wondering.

John

Well I won't take offence because I'm not a biker. My answer is along the lines of some bikers being a little short in the IQ department.

John

A lot of motorcyclists (I ride bikes, so again this isn't a general dig) think that because their machines feel like they brake really hard (cos they nearly go over the handlebars) they can stop quicker than a car. In reality maximum braking deceleration for anything other than a highly skilled rider is considerably less for a bike than for a car.

[Edited on 20/2/09 by matt_claydon]

[Edited on 20/2/09 by matt_claydon]

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Originally posted by matt_claydon
A lot of motorcyclists (I ride bikes, so again this isn't a general dig) think that because their machines feel like they brake really hard (cos they nearly go over the handlebars) they can stop quicker than a car. In reality maximum braking deceleration for anything other than a highly skilled rider is considerably less for a bike than for a car.

[Edited on 20/2/09 by matt_claydon]

[Edited on 20/2/09 by matt_claydon]

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I suggest it's because they haven't engaged their brains.

However, bear in mind that a motorcyclist will have a far better view of the road (yes, even with a helmet) and he's not as insulated as he would be in a car.

Then there's the fact that if he's riding properly, not only will his higher seating position afford him a better view, he also has the ability to move from side to side of his side of the road - and this makes a huge difference.

Then there's the bit where he's close cos he's put all the above into prcactice so he can blat past you

ATB

Simon

What was the speed limit, and were you in the right lane?

Maybe he was trying to make progress, and you were holding him up?

Just a thought............

Nah national speed limit so 60 in a 60

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Originally posted by matt_claydon
A lot of motorcyclists (I ride bikes, so again this isn't a general dig) think that because their machines feel like they brake really hard (cos they nearly go over the handlebars) they can stop quicker than a car. In reality maximum braking deceleration for anything other than a highly skilled rider is considerably less for a bike than for a car.

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60 in a 60,! you were going too slow for a biker!

[Edited on 20-2-09 by Antnicuk]

eh? you were doing 60 in a 60 limit?

Jessie.

No wonder he wanted past!

Seriously though, just a bit of bad riding, but remember he can see a lot more than you can.
Talking about stopping distances, while the above is right, and bikes generally take longer than cars to stop, they have the real benefit of being able to go past the side of you if he has to.

i,m a biker so not having a dig at fellow bikers but he was either being a numpty or trying to goad you into a "race" or just about to overtake you, probably being a numpty tho,
one day he may learn he doesn,t NEED to be that close.

Apart from the obvious all's I can think of is that when you're tucked in behind (though not sure about 6 feet) there's less wind and it just gives you a break for a minute.
I've only done it behind trucks though, not 6 feet mind and because my bikes unfaired it's nice to have a quick break from the howling wind hitting you in the chest.

I once went on a driving course run by a senior instructor for the Met Police bike school. His recommendation was that you don't have to be as far behind as you would in a car, with a few qualifications:

- You should be a competent and experienced rider.
- You should position yourself so that the driver can see you in at least one, and preferably two, mirrors.
- You should be towards the outside of the car (as said above)
- Traffic conditions should be such that you can nip alongside the car on the offside if it does an emergency stop (not overtake - just that there's more room there to stop - an escape route, in other words).
- You shouldn't be too close if traffic doesn't allow an escape route.

I have recently had a pillock on a small bike right on my tail (tin-top) and on the centre-line of my car. He didn't have the power to overtake, and insufficient sense to hang back. When I overtook another car the biker put himself on the tail of that car...

... Darwinism in action, unfortunately.

I am virtually exactly as quoted. I am not of what is commonly accepted as low IQ - I feel in control - if you braked more than me, I still wouldn't hit you because I am riding in a line behind your mirror not your car - obviously then I may still hit the thing you've braked hard to avoid! So when all said and done, I do what makes you mad, and I will prob continue to do so, and I am aware that it isn't the best practice. And yes, I guess that make my view on my own IQ Highly overrated!

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Originally posted by Antnicuk

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Originally posted by matt_claydon
A lot of motorcyclists (I ride bikes, so again this isn't a general dig) think that because their machines feel like they brake really hard (cos they nearly go over the handlebars) they can stop quicker than a car. In reality maximum braking deceleration for anything other than a highly skilled rider is considerably less for a bike than for a car.

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I am a biker and I agree with this, I also travel what would be considered by a car driver, too close, to the car in front (when in traffic) and i dont have low IQ, BUT, when travelling close, I am not positioned in the middle of the bumper but to one side, depending on the type of road. ie, if i'm behind a car in the fast lane of a dual C/W then I would be positioned on the near side but if on a single lane road on the off side.

This allows me to see the road ahead, not be in the drivers blind spot and in an easy position to take evasive action if needed.

I was taught to ride as if you are invisible and so you always have an escape route if possible. If not possible, slow down!

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I didn't actually read Dave's post above mine when I posted - so that's pretty much how I ride, although still accept that it potentially isn't the best practise to COMPLETELY avoid an accident...

Mr Hignett, i could not agree more, 30yrs biking, god nows how many miles riding similar and no probs, we can see more 3,4 5,6 cars in front, you cant, we can position ourselves so much easier on a bike than in a car, having said all that i am so much more aware when on the bike as opposed to the relaxed mood in a car., just a few pence worth,

still alive, gezza

I've had bikes for getting on 30 years, he was too close, to overtake he would either had to lag back a bit in order to create a smooth overtaking curve, or done a quick steering manouvre which looks 'impressive' but far less safe than being smooth.

Letting a driver in front know you are there is all well and good, but blinding him in his mirror is just going to pi$$ him off, an alert driver once he's seen you will keep looking for you, and is more likely to give you the extra couple of feet to get by.

Its about courtessy and mutual respect amongst road users, bikers generally are because we are the vulnerable ones, but there are the odd few who think it is the cars duty to move out of their way. Works the other way of course too....

Yep, used to do that a long time ago.
My 17 year old brain didn't work to well back then.

You will either learn or die.

Even us old bikers get caught out occasionally.

20 foot gap when stationary is'nt enough for a numpty in a Van.

Just had a letter confirming the numpty that reversed into me last September was to blame.

So take to many chances on a bike and you will get hurt.


Shame my bike only has a 400cc babyblade engine, so not much good for a BEC.

I am not a biker so can i ask
Why is the driving lamp on bikes that bright that it blinds car drivers ? is it just the head light used on dip or a separate lamp?

As an ex-biker - I have to say that Mr H is not wrong. Too blunt maybe, but basically correct.

There are many good bikers out there - I'm sure it's the majority - but there are also a significant number of stupid, ignorant, testosterone-powered or just plain dangerous bikers out there who give the rest a bad name.

There is a correct and safe way to ride behind a car, as I said above. There are a number of riders who ride too close in a very unsafe manner, close enough to spook the driver in front.

Perhaps that's what the original post was about (hopefully).

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Originally posted by jacko
I am not a biker so can i ask
Why is the driving lamp on bikes that bright that it blinds car drivers ? is it just the head light used on dip or a separate lamp?

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don't care how good the brakes are at 6' by the time he reaches for the brake lever having seen your brake lights, he will be sitting beside you.
Time for brake light filiment to glow, time for brain to send command to hand, time to reach for lever, time to apply brake.
You do the math.

The day I learnt of the demise of CRAIG JONES I had been out on what I would consider a "very quick ride" and if I were being totally honest, there isn't a single thing that could of slowed me down, then I arrived at the local BikeShop (J&S) to watch the last few laps of the GP to be told about what happened to Craig. I rode home at 1/4 the pace that I did on the ride out. But to be honest, whenever I was "on it" I've never had less than a finger on the brake lever (I only ever use one finger on the brake).

I have been hit three times on a bike:
Once - an old fella on a small roundabout - 100% his fault .
Second - a woman on a roundabout - 100% her fault.
Third - a woman driving a minibus - 100% her fault.

I've come off twice:
Once - following what I thought was a drink driver after a 200mile trip down south, totally my fault. (Slipped on gravel <5mph!!!)
Second - 130MPH "off" at oulton park 50% my fault, (exhaust ground down and pushed me wide at Deers Leap - the worst place to crash on a bike!) I stopped somersaulting over 100 metres later...

[Edited on 21/2/09 by Steve Hignett]

I had a mate who used to do this as a matter of course, while I was usually hanging back keeping a safe following distance. He did nearly end up in the back of a pickup once. However, this was in the US in a state where you aren't allowed to filter, and where (typically American) they paint bloody double white lines anywhere within 20 miles of a corner.

If he was directly behind you, then he was just tailgating, like any number of people in cars who don't actually want to make the effort to pass you, but just want to travel too close to you in a passive aggressive manner. I have no idea at all why people would do this - where is the car going to go? Into the bushes? I would suggest it's probably a habit carried over by riders who spend most of their time driving cars. If he or she can ride 0.5 feet behind your bumper, they could just pass you.

If the bike was keeping to one side of you, then most probably he or she was preparing to get past you. You get very, very bored after a while with the slowness of cars. My commute is a long, mostly straight rural A road, and at least in this part of the country, national speed limit means someone (not even necessarily that silver-haired 1.0l micra driver I think we are all familiar with!) driving at 40 or 45 mph with a ten mile tailback behind them. As I'm wanting to do 80 most of the way, it gets very tedious. After a while, you lose any patience with getting held up.

How would you feel, for example, if you ended up stuck behind someone who had decided to commute to work in a Chieftan tank, and was doing 30 mph blocking 1.5 lanes of the road? You might just get a bit hacked off with them. Same difference...

Edit: someone also made the point about riding as if you are invisible. Putting it another way, defensive riding, while appropriate SOME of the time, doesn't protect you MOST of the time on a bike. It's not necessarily better to sit in a queue of traffic than to pass the car in front, if passing means you can ride in your own road space by fecking off into the distance. If you sit in the queue, you could be run over from behind, reversed into (not a joke - it's happened to me and the vehicle in front was not even a van...) or knocked off by a car changing lane. Experience teaches that it's often best to use the bike's performance to decide where you want to be on the road.

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Originally posted by focijohn
Firstly may i say IM NOT HAVING A DIG mearly a question.
Now thats done could someone tell me the reasoning behind bikers traveling (what i consider too close) to the back of my car. For example today there was one behind me and couldnt have been more than 6ft behind me at 60?
Please no one take offence to this as above just wondering.

John

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Originally posted by jacko
I am not a biker so can i ask
Why is the driving lamp on bikes that bright that it blinds car drivers ? is it just the head light used on dip or a separate lamp?

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John, what road was this on and what time?

The times when I was hit that I mentioned above were when I was riding invisibly/defensively as has been mentioned a couple times above. That's why I think I stayed on instead of being knocked off. Also I think that if/when you ride bikes long enough, you get a bit of a sixth sense if something silly is about to happen - I'm not advocating it, as a law of Invincibility in a sort of superman way, just that I have had "that feeling" a couple of times...

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Edit: someone also made the point about riding as if you are invisible. Putting it another way, defensive riding, while appropriate SOME of the time, doesn't protect you MOST of the time on a bike. It's not necessarily better to sit in a queue of traffic than to pass the car in front, if passing means you can ride in your own road space by fecking off into the distance. If you sit in the queue, you could be run over from behind, reversed into (not a joke - it's happened to me and the vehicle in front was not even a van...) or knocked off by a car changing lane. Experience teaches that it's often best to use the bike's performance to decide where you want to be on the road.

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Originally posted by mads
John, what road was this on and what time?

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