Good grief... how stupid are some folk!? Was taking Mrs Scootz to work this morning. Minus 5 degrees, dark, snowing and 2 inches of it on the A199
and several feet of it at the sides of the carriage-way. What do I see coming the other way... ??? A cyclist!
He had that 'look at me - how wacky am I' look on his face!
And whilst I'm ranting... what about those who cycle through the city with one of those 'baby-trailers' on the rear. You know, those
little enclosed tents with wheels that kids sit in. Just call me old fashioned, but are kids not something we should try and protect (particularly
our own!). Personally, I wouldn't trust dozy commuters to notice that my bicycle is articulated and not squash my kid!
[Edited on 3/12/10 by scootz]
survival of the fittest... 
I hate cyclists.
Specially the ones that do it for the environment. They slow down so many cars that when overtaking the CO2 produced would be a lot more if they were
actually driving a car at work.
In Greece, there is a rule that says a vehicle can go on a road only if the speed limit can be matched by the vehicle.
I would like to see a cyclist doing 60Mph.
I don't care how fit he was... if a snow plough or lorry came up behind him and didn't see him (entirely possible in the conditions described) then he was getting burst!
why don't all the people use their government issued cars.
Oh yes, perhaps they don't have one.
Live and let live, I say.
Matt
I actually enjoy enjoy cycling and indeed, even last night I and two others went our for a ride in the snow - primarily in fields and up footpaths but
we had to use the road as well - kind of useful as they link the paths together.
I don't ride for the "environment", I do it to get fitter and cos I really enjoy it and I have lights and reflective clothing.
Here's a not particularly flattering pic of me at Bedgebury Forest in the snow at the beginining of the year. 'scuse the pose, I had to lean
back as my gut was losing the fight with gravity
Rather than criticise, I'd recommend you try it (but if you're going out in these conditions, do try and wear appropriate clothing).
Forgot to mention, while we were out, and waiting at some traffic lights, we hear a noisy pipe (blown exhaust) and a lot of thrashing only to see a
twat in a Clio, with friends hanging out the window, trying to slide his car around the bends (and failing!)
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 3/12/10 by Simon]
I was cycling in the snow yesterday and it was fecking great fun, i also enjoy cycling and it saves me a fortune in diesel each week but i did drive
the defender today
try it you will like it
I have no problem with cycling, or cyclists in general, but there is a time and a place!
The A199, as described, during commuter hour is NOT the place to be doing it!
I cycle to work to keep fit and my commute racks up 100 miles per week. I wear reflective jackets, have a reflective rucksack with flashing lights on it, 2 seperate red flashing lights on the rear, 2 seperate white flashing lights on the front and I do wear a helmet too. I have a road bike so at the minute it`s too icy for my thin smooth tyres. There`s no reason you shouldn`t cycle in the snow if you have the right bike and kit. I haven`t so I`m not risking it!
He's the one with the right to be there.
That's all well and good, but you're working on the assumption that other motorists will notice these things and that they too will drive
accordingly in such weather.
They don't! Many are bleary eyed, only looking out for car sized (and larger) objects, whilst peering through the 6 inch square they cleared on
their windscreen and texting their mate with a weather update!
Cyclists are a soft target at the best of times... they are sitting ducks in the conditions I described.
I appreciate cycling is essential and enjoyable for some - it's not so essential and enjoyable though that it's worth increasing the odds
dramatically of becoming a statistic!
I agree about the soft bit and I don't know about where you live (particularly the A199), but we have had almost no traffic in the evenings
recently - like last night, I reckon we were on the roads for 1/2 hour and saw probably two cars, the twat mentioned earlier, and another, who was in
my way, holding us up
ATB
Simon
Wednesday night i was coming back at home after a long day at work. It was 10.30 and the roads were still quite busy. I had loads of cars coming the
other way and i was dazzled by their lights.
And there it was a cyclist only with a dim read light on the back, no reflective clothing doing 10mph when everyone else was doing 50. I was lucky
enough to spot his small dim red light about 1/4 mile before as for a second i didn't have any cars coming up towards me and i slowed down doing
10mph up to the point i could overake.
I would too cycle at work to increase my fitness but only if there was a cyclist lane. I am not going out on the road just like that.
Btw, on my way back today, a lorry on the oposite lane nearly gave me a heart attack as the driver decided to overtake a cyclist and crossed the
double line just 100ft away from me.
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Yes, he has a "right " to use the road, as do pedestrians and horse riders.
I bike to work.
Rest assured, when everything else on the road can kill you, you tend to pay attention...something most drivers don't do.
I know this because I have been driven into a few times now - Lights, Hi-Vis and correct signalling all go amiss when the driver says 'I
didn't see you'. That is assuming they stop.
The other thing drivers have a habit of is overtaking you at traffic lights, at junctions, at turnings, pretty much the exact places that offer up the
worst possible place to perform such a manouver. Infact only the other day, as I was on my way to work, a driving instructor overtook me on an iced
up corner going through some roadworks. He almost hit the car coming the other way, and then almost slid into the kerb upon turning into a junction.
Staying behind me would have cost him about 5 seconds.
As for road tax, since my vehicle produces next to no CO2/km, I could therefore get a tax disc FOC
As Simon says, unless you have actually done a decent amount of on road cycling, you cannot comment on this topic with any validity.
Well I've been on powered ones, and yes the high-vis coat and permanent lights on make no difference.
There's no way I'd cycle on the roads round here (well not fast ones anyway) even if I was fit enough
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Well I've been on powered ones, and yes the high-vis coat and permanent lights on make no difference.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I don't care how fit he was... if a snow plough or lorry came up behind him and didn't see him (entirely possible in the conditions described) then he was getting burst!
Missed my point completely Paul.
I'm not for a second suggesting that it's OK for people to drive that way... I'm just stating that THIS IS the way that many people
drive! Welcome to the real-world!
Listen. If you want to ride a bicycle on a busy 60mph commuter road, at commuter time, when it's dark, in minus 5 snowy conditions, with a good
covering of snow on the carriageway, just because you SHOULD be able to, then by all means crack-on mate! Just don't expect a great deal of
sympathy from me when it all comes unstuck... which it will... eventually!
Just because you SHOULD be able to leave your entire life-savings in a bag on your own doorstep, doesn't make it a good idea!
Just because a completely inebriated young lady SHOULD be able to walk through an unlit park by herself in whatever state of undress she chooses,
doesn't make it a good idea.
etc. etc. etc.
Its a fact that most driver go into autopilot when driving routes they are familiar with thats not going to change. I ride a motor and a push bike
quite often and when I do so I ride under the impression its up to me to make myself seen, not up to the driver of the car/lorry etc to see me. If I
cant make myself seen then I get the f**k out of the way.
Too many accidents are caused by cyclist that assume they have the same road presence as cars etc just because they have the right to be on the road.
Its a fact that most driver go into autopilot when driving routes they are familiar with thats not going to change. I ride a motor and a push bike
quite often and when I do so I ride under the impression its up to me to make myself seen, not up to the driver of the car/lorry etc to see me. If I
cant make myself seen then I get the f**k out of the way.
Too many accidents are caused by cyclist that assume they have the same road presence as cars etc just because they have the right to be on the road.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Listen. If you want to ride a bicycle on a busy 60mph commuter road, at commuter time, when it's dark, in minus 5 snowy conditions, with a good covering of snow on the carriageway, just because you SHOULD be able to, then by all means crack-on mate! Just don't expect a great deal of sympathy from me when it all comes unstuck... which it will... eventually!
I think one of the problems we face on the roads is that most people drive cars because they have to, unlike most cyclists that ride because they want
to. Both sets of people have different agendas that often conflict with each other, this is made worse with the difference in speed.
How many times have we commuted to work in car and then realised that we have travelled a good distance thinking about something else - especially if
we drive that route everyday. If you then think that 90% of people on the roads during rush hour ARE doing the same route they have done for a while
then you can see why there are so many accidents.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
That's all well and good, but you're working on the assumption that other motorists will notice these things and that they too will drive accordingly in such weather.
They don't! Many are bleary eyed, only looking out for car sized (and larger) objects, whilst peering through the 6 inch square they cleared on their windscreen and texting their mate with a weather update!
Cyclists are a soft target at the best of times... they are sitting ducks in the conditions I described.
I appreciate cycling is essential and enjoyable for some - it's not so essential and enjoyable though that it's worth increasing the odds dramatically of becoming a statistic!
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
He's the one with the right to be there.
But does he...... He doesn't pay road tax , more than likely doesn't have insurance.......
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
That's all well and good, but you're working on the assumption that other motorists will notice these things and that they too will drive accordingly in such weather.
They don't! Many are bleary eyed, only looking out for car sized (and larger) objects, whilst peering through the 6 inch square they cleared on their windscreen and texting their mate with a weather update!
Cyclists are a soft target at the best of times... they are sitting ducks in the conditions I described.
I appreciate cycling is essential and enjoyable for some - it's not so essential and enjoyable though that it's worth increasing the odds dramatically of becoming a statistic!
So you are saying a cyclist shouldnt use the road because other road users are crap at driving.
I have been hit twice by W***ER drivers, and I have near misses nearly every day because they cant wait one or two seconds.
i tried riding a bike in the snow once. it seemed like hard work so i gave up and went back in the warm
The road is dangerous if not used properly, that go's for speeders, cars in poor condition, slow unobservant drivers but I must say that when I hear cyclist talking they are always on about the way motorist treat them. Yet very often I see them on unlite cycles, not stopping at red lights, going around round-a-bouts the wrong way, mounting pavements and generally having total disregard for the rules of the road. This coupled with the fact there is no need to have a any form of test, licence, insurance there is no age limit on riders and I often seen riders who have obviously been drinking and also racing clubs going through the narrow streets around here two or three abreast going in excess of the 20mph speed limits. It maybe that many cyclist are responsible road users but surely there must soon be some form of legislation to control the dangerou ones. When you consider the costs of motoring and the fines imposed surely all road users should be responsible for their actions and pay when they break the law.
quote:
Originally posted by LBMEFM
The road is dangerous if not used properly, that go's for speeders, cars in poor condition, slow unobservant drivers but I must say that when I hear cyclist talking they are always on about the way motorist treat them. Yet very often I see them on unlite cycles, not stopping at red lights, going around round-a-bouts the wrong way, mounting pavements and generally having total disregard for the rules of the road. This coupled with the fact there is no need to have a any form of test, licence, insurance there is no age limit on riders and I often seen riders who have obviously been drinking and also racing clubs going through the narrow streets around here two or three abreast going in excess of the 20mph speed limits. It maybe that many cyclist are responsible road users but surely there must soon be some form of legislation to control the dangerou ones. When you consider the costs of motoring and the fines imposed surely all road users should be responsible for their actions and pay when they break the law.
quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
Its alright having a go at the bloke on the bike, but who really needs the lessons on how to use the road.
quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Its a fact that most driver go into autopilot when driving routes they are familiar with thats not going to change. I ride a motor and a push bike quite often and when I do so I ride under the impression its up to me to make myself seen, not up to the driver of the car/lorry etc to see me. If I cant make myself seen then I get the f**k out of the way.
Too many accidents are caused by cyclist that assume they have the same road presence as cars etc just because they have the right to be on the road.
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
No exceptions seeing as we're all above average drivers.
End
I was out biking this weekend, all be it on the hills not the roads. However i dont see why people should cycle in the snow, for some people, it is
there normal method of getting around, nobody is stopping you driving your car!!
Daniel
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
No exceptions seeing as we're all above average drivers.
End
I'm RoSPA and IAM Advanced and ex motorcycle instructor so count myself as above average
ATB
Simon
Thanks very much
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Am I typing in a foreign language or something!?[/qoute]
yes - its called the "lets dig ourselves into a hole with my blinkered view" language (blinkered like the drivers who go around not observing properly) by making the contradictory comment below!!!
quote:
No, I am NOT saying that cyclists shouldn't use the roads because other road users are crap at driving. I'm merely suggesting that cyclists shouldn't use the roads in the conditions I DESCRIBED because a number of other road users are crap with their observations and judgement!
So being crap at observation and judgement doesnt mean some people are crap drivers?? REALLY??? So they could be good drivers then??
Well i am an IAM qualified driver and pretty much the majority of the test revolved around observation and judgement - but i guess you are right and the whole of the IAM is wrong............ clearly in your mind, observation and judgement have nothing to do with being a good driver!! Personally i'd say the opposite but what do i know!!
I'll ask my friend who's an ambulance driver and now is sat at home with whiplash after a driver drove into her great big ambulance because "he didn't see it". His observation was clearly pretty damn crap that day - but i guess in your eyes he could well be a good driver still. Tell that to the cops who recommended he be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention. Its just a good job she wasnt on a bike as she'd be dead in all likelyhood - but clearly that would have been her own fault for getting in the way of the good driver who just happened inconveniently to be poor with his observation!!!
Ninehigh - 9/12/10 at 08:51 PMYou have got to ask questions when someone claims they didn't see an ambulance - a vehicle aesthetically designed to be so visible it can get to emergencies way faster than standard Ford Transits
scootz - 9/12/10 at 10:57 PMPaul...
Roadrunner stated, "So you are saying a cyclist shouldnt use the road because other road users are crap at driving". At no point did I ever say that. Feel free to quote me to the contrary... you won't. So hopefully that bits settled - I never wrote it!
I replied, "I'm merely suggesting that cyclists shouldn't use the roads in the conditions I DESCRIBED because a number of other road users are crap with their observations and judgement!"
You'll note that the words, "I DESCRIBED", were in capitals in my response. This was for a reason... !!!
Now, hopefully to clarify for the last time and to try and put it in as plain english as I possibly can... cycling on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as walking on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as roller-skating on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Just the same as pogo-sticking on the road in the conditions I DESCRIBED (and you didn't see them!) was verging on suicidal. Etc. etc. etc.
Based on an assessment of the road as I DESCRIBED (which you didn't see) together with prior experience of dealing with fatalities involving cyclists (including fatalities involving cyclists in adverse driving conditions), then I feel I'm reasonably well qualified to suggest that this guy was taking a spectacularly ill-thought out course of action.
I'll stand by this quote...
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I have no problem with cycling, or cyclists in general, but there is a time and a place!
The A199, as described, during commuter hour is NOT the place to be doing it!
02GF74 - 10/12/10 at 09:31 AMquote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
I think one of the problems we face on the roads is that most people drive cars because they have to, unlike most cyclists that ride because they want to.
That's not true. Nobody needs to own a car. If people lived close to work then they could easily walk. The vast majority if car journeys are probably less than 3 miles (check the statistics but it is like that).
But because they can afford to run a car and buy a nice house in the sticks they commute to the grubby big shitty, not to mention taking the kiddies in a 4x4 to the school that is 1/2 mile away.
Anyways, seems the car vs bikers need to meet after work for a good old punch upf!!
coyoteboy - 12/12/10 at 11:50 PMAs a long term cyclist and a petrolhead I find some of the comments on here dissappointing. We SHARE the road. If you can't overtake a cyclist easily you're either in a tight place with low visibility and little room (and so unlikely to gain more than a few seconds by overtaking the cyclist) or you should take your test again. I really REALLY don't see any points where the two can't live together perfectly happily providing both respect each other and give each other room and think about how the other has to deal with them. Good lighting is a MUST for bikes, it's unfair to expect drivers to see a candle in the snow, and there are plenty of lights out there that make us super-visible. Likewise a little patience isn't much to ask for from drivers. I know it can seem really annoying to be held up behind a bike for 30 seconds - it seems like an age - but really, it's 30 seconds...
Last week, in -17, I cycled to work faster than I could make it in the car (primarily because my diesel refused to start after the -20 overnight temps). Down 60s, 40s and 30s. Not once did I have a problem with the cars. Not once did I hold anyone up and not once did any driver hold me up. The only problem I had was when my chain broke 1/2 a mile from work on the way home and left me 9.5 miles walk in the dark.
The people I find by far the most stupid in these conditions are those who drive 3ft from my arse in ice and snow, who pull out without looking in ice and snow, and those who tank about like it's dry and sunny. Anyone else is welcome on the roads I'm on, and I am capable of driving to not find encountering them a problem.
Ninehigh - 13/12/10 at 12:39 AMWe're not the problem, it's the rest of the unwashed, irresponsible and hard-of-thinking out there!
andkilde - 13/12/10 at 04:26 PMHey Scootz, as a cyclist and a motorist I'll take the bullet for you and just say it
There are times and conditions where a safety conscious cyclist should avoid the roads because the vast majority (perhaps more fairly, a large proportion) of motorists are such complete talentless knobs they can barely keep their cars on the road.
I'm not familiar with the A199, but bicycles, small displacement motorcycles, farm implements and whatnot are restricted from using motorways in Canada.
Motorists here are horrible at sharing the road in good weather, and our roads are not well designed for cyclists, though things are slowly improving.
Education levels are abysmal, a Police officer actually recommended to my son's class that kids should always ride on the sidewalks (pavement?) during a safety day talk, in spite of it being spectacularly dangerous _AND_ illegal. I'd have tracked him down to set him straight but figured I'd be tasered, pepper-sprayed or clubbed for my trouble
Cheers, Ted
scootz - 13/12/10 at 05:36 PMThat pretty much sums it up Ted!
Ninehigh - 13/12/10 at 06:30 PMIirc cycling like that here is illegal too but I think it's a case of the damage done when the faster/heavier traveller hits the slower one.
Car hits bike = damage to bike + rider
Bike hits pedestrian = scuffed elbows
Well, something to that effect