So a little political debate - Re Protesters and ST Pauls & Canon Chancellor Giles Fraser quitting
What’s the collective views on this I am northern boy so hate the big smoke , So the Chancellor hands his notice in on his principles that he agrees
with the protestors, but he has got ot go as the Church is loosing out money in the region of £20k a day .
So what gets me is the fact that the church is attacking this on a 'We are loosing money here' not supporting a 'Peaceful Protest'
regarding the banking sector causing/being a part of causing a large amount of financial hardship.
So up for discussion - the Church of England should be fighting this on a moral ground or has Church of England 'PLC' ( which is a large
player on the stock market ' ) got more alegancis with the bankers than its parishioners who are contributing every week.
Ps I am not pro Church of England just opening this up to the LCB discussion forum for a light hearted debate
regards
Agriv8
My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
Perfect example of the Church Business debate is St. Hildas Priory on the outskirts of Whitby. They've already sold off what used to be the playing fields they owned to a housing developement company who have built 200 houses on it and now, to fund a new 'Priory', they've sold one of their farms to Tescos who wanted to build a Superstore, filling station and, just to help with the planning application, 150 houses. The same week this went public, the Sisters of the Holy Paraclete, who run the priory, wrote to the local press expressing how important it was to support local farmers. Like the family of farmers who had farmed their land for three generations, who had just found out through the media, that they were to become homeless and jobless! As it happens, Tescos didn't get the planning permission and sold the land on to a property developer who wants to build another 200 houses.....even though Whitby has plenty of empty newly build houses that no-one can afford to buy!
As an "devout :-)" atheist of Scottish Presbyterian roots the Church of England ability to be on both sides of any fence never ceases
to amaze me.
Much as I would like to lock up for life Fred Goodwin and co the protesters aren't bunch I have any sympathy time for, especially as it
most of them go home at night.
I don't think this has reached the main BBC News channels http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15462443
This morning Strathclyde Police warned the down & outs & street people were moving into the camp.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeFellows
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
My opinion on the church.... its a business...always has been... Uses peoples fickle beliefes to make huge proffits.... Anyone standing in the way of their money will suffer.... has allways been the case
+1
wonder what the world would be like without capitalism? i don't think it would be a very nice place to be...
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
so Is devisions within "Cof E of PLC" that Rowan what ever he is called can critises the banks but soon as people rally to his call and
protest about it they are not allowed to impact on the Churches income did a quick search at dinner time in 2009 Cof E PLC had assets of 4.4 bn (
assume this this is just stockmarket but may be wrong).
Just cant see hoe they can be Oposite sided of the same fence ( or pulpit )
regards
agriv8
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
capitalism when kept in check is good bit the magority must be able to aford to live ( i dont mean shopping ) i am talking a roof over there head.
As with any idealism, if it is taken to the extreme it becomes a problem. Capitalism itself isn't too bad, but needs to be tempered by other
considerations. I wouldn't want to live life in any extremist state, including extremist capitalism.
Back to the orginal question, I think that the church SHOULD back the protesters, but I'm pretty sure they will act as CoE PLC on this.
I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by Agriv8
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Maybe not for humans, but I'll bet the planet itself and it's wildlife would be more than happy!
capitalism when kept in check is good bit the magority must be able to aford to live ( i dont mean shopping ) i am talking a roof over there head.
depends how you define 'in check', everyone's idea is going to be different.
the only think i used to enjoy about working for the royal *ank of scotland (fill in your own letter for that, i choose W) was when people complained they had to pay interest on their mortgages. the ones that complained were always the ones that couldn't keep up with payments, missing direct debits etc. I liked reminding them, RBS is a business, not a charity...
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
Someone pointed a heat-detecting camera at the tents the other night - a very large majority of them were empty! Most of the protesters had gone home for the night...
As I understand it...
The protesters wanted to camp outside the Stock Exchange but couldn't legally do that. They were then offered space to set up outside StPauls
(some of which is common land). The fire service and HSE raised concerns about the camp blocking exits and risk from waste. The protesters asked for
advice and acted to clear exits and address waste disposal to the satisfaction of fire service and HSE. Then the church closed stating the HSE and
fire reasons and now want them gone because of loss of income...
...Which all sounds a bit fishy given the church's huge investments in the Stock Exchange.
Having said all that, I'm yet to hear a sensibly constructed explanation of what the protesters hope to achieve. Protesting about capitalism is
like protesting about the rain. If they dislike capitalism and globalisation, why are the local Starbucks doing such a roaring trade?
If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
quote:
Originally posted by angliamotorsport
If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by angliamotorsport
If the majority of these people protesting are there during the day, are they working nights to earn a living or what.
Personally I'd get a digger in and scoop up the lot of them and take them to the local tip.
That's probably upset a lot of you, am I bothered........
Sorry that won't wash, they seem to devided into five groups, anarchists living on benefits who will protest at anything, lonely granny pensioner nutters looking for a cause to fill their time and happy clappy christian do gooders and the bored daughters of sloans who have never worked in their lives.
I really don't understand what these protestors are trying to achieve beyond the crazy notion of bringing down capitalism which isn't really
possible in a free society. And as above I'd noticed that the people protesting do match the above groups above and are in essense people
striking who haven't got jobs to begin with. Have any of them put forward any ideas of how to remove capitalism?
Some very harsh views on the Church here. What you believe in is your own business but the church needs money to survive. There is Hipocracy in the
church and sometimes they do things which seem to against the general message but that will happen in any large organisation but the bottom line is
the church employs a very large number of people and owns and maintains a huge number of buildings that people would complain about loosing (Even
though they'd done nothing to prevent the loss and might have even expediated).
They should just arrest them all.
quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
I'm an aetheist, but St Pauls receives no cash from the church, it's self-sustaining.
To me, it's a tourist destination which brings in foreign cash and doesn't cost us anything.
A rarity which should be protected, not closed.
Why are the protesters picketing a church rather than a financial establishment ?
The eco protestors will soon become rentamob, Clown Army, Cycling protestors (Critical mass) whenever the call goes up ...
and to the right reverend/canon who ever he was who sent the Police packing when this all started - Simply a tosser.
http://www.clownarmy.org/
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk/
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/
Have a browse, see what your taxes are paying for.