Plodding on with the prep for installing the duratec. Still working on the engine at the moment, but there isnt an awful lot to do now, mainly assembly. Managed to get it up on the engine stand yesterday which makes working on it much easier!


Engine front


Engine exhuast side

Rather than start loads of new threads with progress I will update this one. As I am trying to do it well, but on a budget I will also keep a running total up to date with how much its costing. Some may be suprised.....

Anyway. Made and fitted the EGR blanking plate in place of the electronic valve. They are available from Ford and Raceline/SB Dev, but I baulked at paying nearly £40! This one cost me nothing, and 20 mins sweat with a hacksaw and file.


EGR blanking plate

Had an argument with someone on the duratec forum over the merits of lightweight flywheels for road use. IMO a superlight flywheel is overkill and not needed. Especially as they are £200 plus another £200 for a clutch to suit! They are marketed as essential, but seeing as the std 1.8 flywheel only weighs about 6kg is it worth it? What is as yet unproven is that the clutch will stand up to the power, I think it probably will but may not last as long as a HD one.... If not, an uprated cover should do the trick. I will be using the std clutch with a 220mm plate fitted from an early mondeo (same as zetec). If this slips I will re-drill the flywheel to take a HD pinto clutch cover.

Sump - going to use the one which was fitted to my engine, which seems to be a Transit sump and not a mondeo one. The beauty of this is that its level with the bottom of the bellhousing within 2 or 3 mm so doesnt need any external mods. Inside its fitted with a windage tray and forward baffle. Just needs a rear baffle fitting (welding to the windage tray) and it will be just as baffled as the Raceline sump and hold the same amount of oil. I may add some lateral baffles as well for good measure.


Sump inside before mods

Sump inside before mods

Throttle bodies and injectors. Using GSXR 750 (42mm) throttle bodies which I am going to re-space the suit the inlet port spacing on the engine. Hope to get my inlet manifold made in the next couple of weeks, which will essentially be a 5mm steel plate with 4 stubby tubes on for attaching the throttle bodies too. I'll post piccies once I get it done. Again cost is low compared to buying a set of throtle bodies from Webcon or Raceline.

Injectors are mounted direct into the head on the duratec, and as they are bosch ones are an easy upgrade. I have a set of 440cc/min ones on their way over from the states (less than half the price of over here!) . I will then make a new fuel rail (same as I did on the pinto) to suit them and block off the injector ports in the throttle bodies.

Again this was a relativley cheap way of sorting induction and fuel and neat too. More piccies to follow as I get it fitted up.


GSXR 750 throttle bodies

Lots of other stuff on the list:

Shortened prop to move the engine right back in the chassis. Needs to be about 3" shorted.

Water pipe to move the inlet on the back of the head to the front to connect to rad.

Hydraulic release cylinder spacer for bellhouing.

Mod exhuast manifold to keep same bodywork exit point, but suit new por spacing of duratec.

Make alternator bracket, also need to get hold of a small denso type alternator to fit on passenger side of engine with a 6 groove pulley on.

Running total currently about £500

[Edited on 21/6/09 by flak monkey]

Looks very sexy and the engines nice and clean.

This is very interesting, please keep posting details as I am going to be doing this in the future.

Me too, cheers David

Regards

Rich

Flak,
With my current lack of cash situation I'm living my upgrade life through you!

Keep up the good work. Loving the cash saving but high quality philosophy- just how I want to do mine.


Cheers,
James

Thanks chaps. Will keep this thread up to date with the progress.

Thanks to Fozzie for the sticky

Top job!

What power do you reckon you will get from the 1.8?

I would love to do a pinto to duratec swap, but I have yet to blow the pinto up

Top stuff

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xtreme Kermit
Top job!

What power do you reckon you will get from the 1.8?

I would love to do a pinto to duratec swap, but I have yet to blow the pinto up

---

Ah - 2.0 - even better - I misread.

180+ from a stock motor sounds like the way to go.

Thrash it, kill it, replace it with another!

looks good, shawspeed do the mounts for duratech, ive got one of there sigma 1600 in a shawspeed car, was looking at the 2.0 to upgrade in power, but i think 175-180 bhp will do me for now, keep up the good work!

The duratec project is going slowly at the moment due to the problems with the pinto. But things are still moving slowly.

Took delivery of the new bellhousing on friday. Suprised me by how light it was. Secondhand off ebay, but looks like its never been fitted. Paid £120 for it so was worth biding time until once came up! Will allow the engine to go right back in the chassis, the back of the block should end up about 3" from the bulkhead by the looks of it.

For reference there are 2 lengths of bellhousing. 173mm and 192mm to suit the different input shaft lengths of the type 9 boxes. However the difference in length is on the back of the bellhousing (where it meets up with the box) so the extra material could be milled off if you have one which is too long, or a 19mm spacer made if you got the short one (if you have access to the equipment of course).


Bellhousing 1


Bellhousing 2

Also taken delivery of the uprated injectors. Decided to fit larger than std ones at this point incase I feel the need to supercharge or tweak more in the future. They are ford racing injectors, direct swap for std ones. (Bosch EV6 for reference). Rated at 39lb/hr (410cc/min) so double the capacity iof the std ones.


440cc injectors


440cc injector closeup

The cheaper way would have been to use both the std injectors and the bike throttle body ones. But I thought this could look untidy, so decided to import a new set of injectors from the states. £150 including all the charges was cheaper than getting them over here too!

Next job is get the throttle bodies fitted up and the sump mods completed.

More pics to follow!

Love the way your locosting David, what bellhousing is that?

Where did you get the engine and how cheap?

Steve

Bellhousing a duratec to type 9 one, Titan make them for several people (inc burtons and rally design) as well as RWD motorsport, raceline, dunnell etc. But they all look like they come from the same pattern to me.

Not sure which one I have as its got no markings on it, dont think it makes aby difference!

The engine cost me £400 plus a trip to birmingham to pick it up. Was told about it by a member on here.

Running total is around £520 including the bellhousing and injector upgrade (sold a few surplus parts)

Not much left to buy other than odds and sods. Am keeping an accurate running total though as I am sure people will be interested.

David

[Edited on 19/4/09 by flak monkey]

David, do you need a starter? I have a s/h one you can have for the price of a pint. Can take to Stoneleigh if you want it.

Big thanks to Mel for the starter at Stoneleigh! Just needs a clean up.

Sourced a very small brand new denso type alternator from a Honda Prelude for all of £20. Rated at 60amps, which is more than enough!

This will be rigidly mounted to the block right at the bottom on the passenger side. Need to figure out how to wire up the 3 wire regulator though. Another job for the coming weeks is make the brackets to mount it properly.


Alternator


Also sussed out how to tension the aux belt which drives the water pump and alternator. The 2006 onward 1.8 duratec ford focus is fitted with a spring loaded tensioner. This fits where the power steering pump would normally be on the 2.0 engine. Available from Ford for about £70, but also from the breakers for about £20. The ford part number is 3M5Q-6A228-AD.


Tensioner

Using the std tensioner is a much simpler and cheaper option than offered by several of the duratec companies...especially if you get one from a breakers and make the alternator brackets yourself.

David

Great thread, and very interesting.....

Have to ask, are you not worried the injectors will be too big for this engine....I would imaging 250's to be more than enough for duratec on TB's....I would be concerned that they will deliver too much fuel lower down the rev range (when on minimum duty cycle)....I'm using gsxr600TB's on a 200bhp engine, and they are fine.

As said, there could be a good reason for going 410cc, so just asking.

Paul.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Sourced a very small brand new denso type alternator from a Honda Prelude for all of £20. Rated at 60amps, which is more than enough!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenko
Great thread, and very interesting.....

Have to ask, are you not worried the injectors will be too big for this engine....I would imaging 250's to be more than enough for duratec on TB's....I would be concerned that they will deliver too much fuel lower down the rev range (when on minimum duty cycle)....I'm using gsxr600TB's on a 200bhp engine, and they are fine.

As said, there could be a good reason for going 410cc, so just asking.

Paul.

---

what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter, but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al

quote:

---

Originally posted by beaver34
what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter, but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey

quote:

---

Originally posted by beaver34
what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter, but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al

---

I am simply going for a 200bhp spec engine. Std internals on throttle bodies. Realistically though if I see 170-180bhp from the budget option I will be more than happy. After its all fitted and I have had time to save up some more cash then forced induction will be on the cards.

The limit for std rods and pistons is about 230-250bhp. For anything other than the std cams you need pocketed pistons, though the std ones can be machined cheaply. This should see 230bhp.

After this you need to really start raising the rev limiter to unlock the power and the std rods and pistons arent really up to anything over 7000rpm. Forged rods and pistons are readily available, but as always you are looking at about £800 for the set. Add a set of cams, followers and springs and you are soon into the £1500 bracket for that extra 50bhp, so personally I would rather spend that money on a homebrew supercharger system...

There are some good articles on the SBDev site about what mods will give what power outputs.

---

Slight change of plan with the sump. Although the std transit sump is level with the bottom of the std bellhousing, the rwd bellhousings are 27mm shorter allowing more ground clearance with a shortened sump. So its been a case of back to the drawing board (literally) so....

I have been working on a cad model for a new sump this evening. Loosely based on the one CairB made for his duratec, but with a few tweaks.

I am planning on getting all of the parts laser cut and then getting a friend to TIG weld it all together for me. This will hopefully be available as a kit of parts in the future as well for others who want to install the duratec engine (also be an inlet manifold plate available) if all goes to plan. This hasnt been finalised yet I hasten to add!

The large square holes will have a flap fitted to allow oil into the pickup area but not out of it. The baffles all have 1/2" rad cut outs in the corners and the rearmost one one in the middle too. I may add more holes part way up the baffles? Top plate is 5mm, all others are 1.6mm.

Anyone see any major problems? Or indeed have any suggestions for improvement? I am not sure if the rear most baffle is of any use? Would it be worth moving the middle one back slightly and doing away with the back one?

I havent quite finished it yet, as I want to incorporate a plate which also bolts to the bellhousing to make use of the bolt holes and to simply cover the bottom of the bellhousing neatly. If I can work out a way of making it strong enough then it will be strutural too. I also need to put the holes in where the front cover bolts on too.

[see below for pics]

[Edited on 19/5/09 by flak monkey]

Looking good David!

Out of curiosity what changes have you made to the CairB sump?

Based on:


DuratecSumpInside

I'd have said they were pretty much the same??

[Edited on 12/5/09 by Tim 45]

[Edited on 12/5/09 by Tim 45]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim 45
Looking good David!

Out of curiosity what changes have you made to the CairB sump?

---

Sump design now complete and will shortly be sent off for laser cutting!










Fingers crossed it all fits together!

i`m building also with duratec but with mx5 gearbox
and I have idea, if duratec block are the same as 2.0 mazda mx5 `05 and up so we can use stock mx5 oil pan

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam R.
i`m building also with duratec but with mx5 gearbox
and I have idea, if duratec block are the same as 2.0 mazda mx5 `05 and up so we can use stock mx5 oil pan

---

Today I have been working on getting the alternator fitted up (amongst other things! )

Mounts fabricated from 5mm steel, they need a bit of trimming up then painting and fitting permanently. I might drill some lightening holes in the lower mount too.

They position the alternator within about 3mm of the block.

Total cost for alternator and mounts was £20, which I think you will agree is better than over £300....


Alternator mounts


Alternator mounts


Alternator mounts


Alternator fitted

The next jobs are to get the new fuel rail milled (job for work this week) and hopefull I will be welding up the sump next weekend if all goes to plan!

On the sump front, kits to build your own sump will be available to weld up yourself for the princely sum of ~£70+P&P. Obviously mine is the prototype, so there may be some design tweaks before they go on sale, but they will be available very soon

David

[Edited on 7/6/09 by flak monkey]

i would def be interested in a sump kit

I'll post more about them when everything is finalised

Finished the alternator brackets off today and fitted them up finally


Alternator mounts finished


Alternator mounts finished

will measure up for the belt tomorrow.

Unfortunately the laser cutting has been delayed so won't be welding the sump up tomorrow

Will pobably spend the time stripping one of my diffs and driveshafts down instead.

David

Looks good! How did you go about alligning the pulleys? Straight edge + lots of measuring? frickin' lasers? It's something I'll have to do soon so I'm curious ^_^

The pulleys were aligned using a piece of box section held on the crank pulley by my able assitant while I marked out the alternator brackets and then tacked them together. Got it right within about 0.25mm which is good enough.

Took a bit of fiddling but got it right in the end.

The measurement from the front of the pulleys to the root of the first vee was the same on both which made the alignment much simpler.

Cool thanks, my crank pulley has a big lip around it so I'll be able to clamp some box section on to it

http://k80rum.co.uk/default.aspx



super charger upgrade?

quote:

---

Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
http://k80rum.co.uk/default.aspx



super charger upgrade?

---

The parts for the sump arrived on Friday morning, which has meant that inbetween visiting Newark yesterday and all the other usual weekend stuff I have managed to make a start on getting it welded together.

Check fitted the flanges on friday and all seem to line up well, which was a great relief!

Also spent friday afternoon making all the flap valves and welding them all in (they can be seen in the pics below) and getting them all to operate smootly.

A slight modification is required to a couple of the baffle lengths and the two sides (a little too generous with the bend allowances, but this will be rectified in the design now)

Screwed the flange down to a nice thick bit of block board and welded on the end plate which bolts to the front cover of the engine.

The sides were then bent by clamping down to a bench, sandwiched between 2 bits of wood. Allowed for nice clean bends. And I was quite chuffed with the result considering I was too impatient to wait until tomorrow to bend them on the machine at work tomorrow!


Sump build


Sump build 3

After that the sides were tacked into position, and then the back followed. Nice and easy so far. And having everything laser cut was a joy as it meant everything fitted together just as expected.


Sump build 2


Sump build 4

The next step was to weld in the baffles. As I mentioned above I had already spent friday fixing in the flap valve parts. The rest is quite easy as I had slots cut in the baffles so they literally slot together.


Sump build 5


Sump build 6

The next job is to bend the bottom plate to fit and to decide where the dipstick is going to be fitted so I can drill the hole in the side of the sump for it. I think this will end up toward the back of the sump, and I will be retaining the std mondeo dipstick and tube.

Drain plug fits in the hole in the side which you can see in the pics. Need an M14 nut with one side ground down to suit then a std pinto drain plug and sealing washer can be used.

All in all its going quite well....I think.....


David

quote:

---

Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
http://k80rum.co.uk/default.aspx



super charger upgrade?

---

More progress on the sump construction.

Everything other than the bottom is tacked on now. There is still the windage tray fitting to work out as well.

May have got a bit carried away with shortening the pickup pipe though, what do you think? The pipe angle is the same as the mondeo std i.e the end is angled to the bottom of the sump. The closest end is within 5mm of the bottom and the other end is 9mm away. Too far or will it be ok?

It will be submerged in a total of 70mm of oil when the oil level is at max.


Sump build 7


Sump build 8


Sump build 9

this is a good progress, so doe sthe engine need to be moved back 3inchs?

just as me and my dad want to convert my kit car from a 1.6 pinto to a 2.0duratec engine during the winter.

as well the sump desing, i would love to beable to do that on a coumputer.lol so if i did do the conversion at the moment it is just talk between me and dad, and mum saying, maybe.lol would i you send me the drawing so i can get it made?

as well does the exhaust ports look simlar to a pinto one?

and could i get bike carbs running mejafolt instead of throttle boddies and megasquirt?

sorry for all the questions david.

thanks

stuart

Hi Stuart,

Engine doesnt need to be moved back, but its worth it if you can. The reason you can is that you need to use a hydraulic clutch which means there is no release arm to fit into the transmission tunnel.

The sump will be available as a kit from 3GE components soon. I just need to finish my prototype off and tweak a couple of bits on the design.

Pinto exhaust can be modded to fit the duratec yes. Port spacing very similar.

You could run it on bike carbs, but I wouldnt expect to see the power you can get from a big set of inection throttle bodies. SBD got 175bhp on 48DCOE carbs and 198bhp on 48mm throttle bodies.

David

PS havent you added me on MSN?

hi david, thanks for the info, so woth geeting bike throttle bodies then, with those figures, how hard is it to set up, as i am not very good, manily never done any of that before.lol

yes edd, gave me you msn, just aint on it anit the moment, so throught i would ask on here.

i will pseak to you soon on msn, more stupid questions.lol

thanks

stuart

More sump progress and piccies.

Also decided to get another pick up pipe and have cut it so its parallel with the bottom of the sump, and 5mm clear.

Final job before getting it all TIG'd up is to decide on the position of the dipstick and get the tube welded on. Think its going to go exhaust side as there is less in the way!


Sump build 11


Sump build 12


Sump build 13


Sump build 14

Also finished off the fuel rail, all bar some spacers for the bolts which I'll make this week. And test fitted the laser cut inlet manifold flange which fits beautifully. I designed it so I could cut away the small lips on the bottom of the inlet ports on the head. What looks like a lip in the pics is'nt its just where the ali is shiney where I filed it away.


Inlet manifold plate test fit

The tube has arrived for the manifold too. Was a bit tricky to find (48mm OD (1 7/8") but got some in the end. Three of the inlet tracts will be straight (cyls 2-4) and cyl 1 will have a slight angle as the TPS sensor interfered with the belt tensioner otherwise. The trickiest bits going to be making the angled runner nice and smooth and belend into the odd shaped inlet ports.

Oh well, another challenge which I am sure can be overcome....

David

that is looking good, so in the sump, are thoses flaps to let oil float freely around, then stop it lossing oil in hard turns?

stuart

The idea of the flaps is to allow oil to flow around freely under normal circumstances and then under hard acceleration/braking/cornering they will retain the oil in the pick up area.

There are small notches in the baffles too to allow oil to flow around slowly too.

There is also a windage tray to stop oil sloshing up the sides of the block in the corners.

Basically its all about slowing the surge of oil down but it still needs to flow around under normal circumstances.

hey flak,
any news on the sump progress??

Yeah, it all fits, just waiting for it to be finish welded by a friend who'll make a better job of it than me.

Will get the finished laser cutting drawings off to the cutters this week too. A few slight tweaks were needed, but nothing major!

Not been able to get in the garage for a while, been busy with other things unfortunately.

David

cool, is it ali or steel??
cant wait to see it done, am hoping to get one for mine too

quote:

---

Originally posted by goaty
cool, is it ali or steel??
cant wait to see it done, am hoping to get one for mine too

---

hows it coming along?, im starting mine this month, hopefully picking a head up this weekend

Slowly. Run out of time and money at the moment.

Sump is away being welded up by my mate.

Inlet manifold will be made next week as I am on holiday from work.

Also will be making a billet ali water pump pulley, just because I can really....

David

Righto, back on the case, and things need to start moving.

Here are the fruits of tonights labours. From 5pm to now has made me this:


Inlet manifold 1


Inlet manifold 2


Inlet manifold 3


Inlet manifold 4

Sadly due to the position of the aux belt tensioner the runner for the fist throttle body can't be dead straight.

I havent trimmed it up inside yet either as it was still smoking when I took the pics. However its distroted more than I had hoped so need to try and straighten that out somehow. Any ideas?

I should also point out, although the tops of the tubes are a bit wobbly at the moment its going on the mill at work tomorrow to have them all skimmed nice and flat

David

[Edited on 17/8/09 by flak monkey]

hi david, glad to see it is coming along, i am looking at soem engines at the moment, have you got teh 145hp one or the 170hp one?

do you now what i would have to change to get to 170hp?

as well what throttle boddies are you using?

i was think a set of 1000cc bike throttle boddies.

cheers

stuart

The ST170 engine is NOT a duratec engine. Its a zetec with VVT which needs to be controlled by the ECU. It just has a duratec badge, other than that its all zetec.

Mine is a 150bhp one from mondeo/st150 etc etc.

The throttle odies are GSXR750 which are 42mm, exactly the same size as GSXR1000 but you usually pay less for the 750s

Took the pinto out yesterday and it was collected in the afternoon, so all in a good days work so to speak! No major hiccups other than throwing gearbox oil everywhere! Forgot about it pouring out of the prop end!

Also finished off my shiney new ali water pump pulley this morning. Slightly underdrive (about 5%) compared to the old one. But also about half the weight, and I reckon it will look nicer too


Water pump pulley 3


Water pump pulley 2

Also just finished fettling the inlet manifold. Just need to get it skimmed front and back to completely finish it off.

David

Fitted all the blanking plugs to the throttle bodies so they are now ready to fit.

I am as of yet undecided whether to machine off the old injector fixings. I might leave them as they could come in handy for fixing things too.



What I need to do now is work out how to make a positive retainer to hold the throttle bodies to the manifold. I really dont want them dropping off, or indeed blowing off when the supercharger is fitted....

that pulley looks nice.

where baouts did you get the bellhousing from, or ehich search words should i use to look on ebay?

i have my duartec engine now

The bellhousing came off ebay. I paid £120 for it. They do come up every now and again. Sometimes listed under mk2 escort parts.

I assume you got a HE duratec and not a zetec duratec? lol

yep a he 2.0 duartec engine, mine cost £205.

i need a starter and a flywheel, i read on your website a 1.8 flywheel, what size stater or are they the same?

stuart

Starters are the same. Some 1.8s still have a dual mass flywheel.

I'll have a look at mine and get the part number off it, if you then go into a ford dealer they will be able to tell you what models it was fitted to exactly.

David

if you need any ford parts info drop me a u2u, its all i do all day

Flywheel part number
Rescued attachment m_P1000390.jpg

This is the water pump pulley fitted


New water pump pulley fitted

has anyone heard anything about oil pump failures on duratecs??
I got told about two yesterday and am now wondering which would be the best route, or just uprate the pump....
Dont think there would be much room for a dry sump set up.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by goaty
has anyone heard anything about oil pump failures on duratecs??
I got told about two yesterday and am now wondering which would be the best route, or just uprate the pump....
Dont think there would be much room for a dry sump set up.....

---

possible, i have just picked my Titan one up but i think iwill be able to squeeze it all in. Tank is the main issue i think.
Luckily the bloke i bought it off works for Caterham developments team and this is the same things he does. Bought an ap friction plate for £40 too. But he said get in touch whenever for help as they just made one and got 330bhp.
So it can fit and shoudl go well
Will be interesting to see how the different builds turn out....cant wait.
all the best

ps, he said that they haven't had any oil pump failures as yet though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
This is the water pump pulley fitted


New water pump pulley fitted

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Breaker
Any particular reason you want the water pump to run slower (larger pulley) ?

BTW: Duratecs with aircon have a double crankshaft pulley. 1pulley for the water pump and alternator and the other pulley for the aircon. Perhaps you can use the second one for your supercharger ?

---

what are you doing in terms of the oil filter? I've seen stuff about replacing the standard housing with an aftermarket one to fit a traditional filter that sticks off the block sideways - presumably to eliminate ground clearance issues? I've not assembled ours yet to see how low the standard housing hangs.

Did you look at using the RWD sump (ranger) at all? just wondering what thats like in terms of ground clearance etc as thats what we have. We were planning to baffle that sump.

you may have mentioned it somewhere and I've missed it so apologies if thats the case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FASTdan
what are you doing in terms of the oil filter? I've seen stuff about replacing the standard housing with an aftermarket one to fit a traditional filter that sticks off the block sideways - presumably to eliminate ground clearance issues? I've not assembled ours yet to see how low the standard housing hangs.

Did you look at using the RWD sump (ranger) at all? just wondering what thats like in terms of ground clearance etc as thats what we have. We were planning to baffle that sump.

you may have mentioned it somewhere and I've missed it so apologies if thats the case.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
My sump design is only 75mm deep in total and this is the total depth you have available to make the sump level with the bottom of the after market bellhousings.


David

---

Tried the supercharger up to the block the other day.

Looks like it will fit nicely, still may need to move the steering column though.

looking very good, can you get to the oil lines ok?? what about running the air hoses from it??

quote:

---

Originally posted by goaty
looking very good, can you get to the oil lines ok?? what about running the air hoses from it??

---

I plan to go the duratec route (swaping from Zetec)and this thread is very informative.

I wonder about one thing.
Where is the trigger pickup located? Does the Duratec use the same principle as the zetec, ie flywheel.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Micael
I plan to go the duratec route (swaping from Zetec)and this thread is very informative.

I wonder about one thing.
Where is the trigger pickup located? Does the Duratec use the same principle as the zetec, ie flywheel.

---

how could i missed that.

After alot of head scratching I think I have now come up with the right recipe for duratec flywheel/clutch on the cheap.

The flywheel part number is:

5S6G-6K390-BA

And it is fitted as std to the 2.0 Focus and 2.0 Fiesta ST. Available new from ford - not sure on the price though. Or there should be a few kicking around second hand. St150 fiestas seem to end up in the breakers quite often!

These flywheels are ~5mm smaller than the mondeo dual mass flywheel, so make sure you get the starter from an ST or Focus too.

For standard power (200bhp or so) the standard cover plate with a mondeo zetec friction plate will suffice. This is the same clutch kit as used on the rwd zetec conversions. Usually retail for about £30. This set up can use the standard ford release cylinder (CSC002) which will bolt straight into the bellhousing but may need a small spacer which are available off the shelf.

The other aftermarket clutches are only rated to around 250bhp, after this you are usually told you need a 7.25" race clutch and flywheel. Which is mega money.

For big power (upto 350bhp) a heavy duty AP Racing clutch plate can be fitted from an XR3/Rs Turbo. The AP part number is CP3560-2. A compatable friction plate is any of the 215mm friction plates which are made for the pinto engine. So you have a choice of cerametallic or organic. Eg CP5352-5 or CP5354-38. I have spoken to AP about this and they dont actually make any 220mm friction plates, for their 220mm covers, they are all supplied with 215mm ones.

The release cylinder/bearing to suit the HD option is one from a Saab 99/900/9000 with a round nose release bearing. It will need an approx 5mm adaptor/spacer making to fit it to the bellhousing. Which I will be able to supply.

It will also require the central hole in the pressure plate opening out by ~2mm, this can be done with a die grinder/dremel. Or I can machine the material out, but will require the whole flywheel/clutch assembly to do this.

Hope that helps, and clarifies a few points as well!

David

Ali alternator pulley made and fitted yesterday. Needed to make it slightly smaller to keep the speed of the alternator up with the reduced dia crank pulley.


Ali alternator pulley 1


Ali alternator pulley 2

Mounted the flywheel and clutch up in the lathe and skimmed out the bore of the pressure plate. Actually turned OK with a CBN tip


Clutch skim

And got the starter motor modifed, now engages perfectly (or seems to at least) with the fiesta flywheel. All that was required was 2mm skimmed off the mounting face.


Starter mod

I am now in the middle of removing all the front suspension ready for a paint up!

Thanks for the info!

I'm of to the scrap yard in search of a fly wheel.

You have been busy aint you!!!!

Looks really good so far mate. Glad to see you are putting the welder to good uses.

Is there are part number for a normal intake gasket on the Duratec? I've been unable to find a reference and was planning on trying to make one from gasket material.

Thanks,
Mark

There isnt one as the std intake has 4 moulded o-rings to seal it. The aftermarket cast manifolds use these too.

Like you I will be making one from gasket material.

David

Forged pistons arrived from the staes today. Not bad, 4 working days shipping and not bad on import duty either.

Made in the USA, complete with rings, pins and locks worked out at about £315 for the set.

10:1 compression ratio, so slightly lower than the standard 10.8:1 but near enough for me.


Forged pistons


Forged pistons


Forged pistons

Also imported a couple of set of bearings, which also worked out rediculously cheap!

Still waiting for my forged rods though, now a month since I ordered must be on a slow boat from somewhere

nice bit of kit.

i have mine on an engien stand now, cleaning it, and make the blanking plate for the erg port this weekend, and hopefuly getting soem throttle boddies soon.

stuart

Things are going rather slowly at the moment as I have spent the past 3 weeks working on getting my new garage in a habitable state which has involved some major works! I now have a dust and draught free garage though, 4.5x4.5m so a much better work space.

Sadly I need to get the suspension and wheels back on the chassis so I can get the car on a trailer and over to its new home!

Also majorly let down by one supplier in the US, now in the process of claiming my money back through paypal as they arent responding to my emails and I ordered over 6 weeks ago. Fingers crossed paypal will actually refind my money so I can source another set of rods from a company I now trust!

Next month I hope to source the intercooler, I will then have all the major parts to get the engine fitted. So by the end of Nov I hope to have engine and transmission sorted

all sounding very good, shame about the us company, thats the main reason i try not to use us unless really need too. Paypal are normally good at this though .
I would be interested in one fo the intercoolers too if poss please
cheers
joe

I will be sourcing from GRS for the intercooler. Will ask if he is able to do any discount for 2 off.

Should be able to make it fit any seven rep, bt will depend on position of body and rad to some extent. Nothing a bit of juggling should fix though

how much does this flywheel weight?

quote:

---

Originally posted by radom
how much does this flywheel weight?

---

can i buy a sump/sump kit yet if so how much thanks

The last of the parts from the States arrived today.

Forged rods and ARP head stud kit. Worked out around £400 inc delivery.


Rods and bolts


K1 Rod

Rods were supplied complete with ARP bolts included in the price. Machined all over and shot peened made from forged billet. Certainly look the part anyway.

The engine strip down will begin in a couple of weeks once I have finished some DIY on the house

they do look nice.

I'm guessing there are different sumps for different Ford Duratec models... ???

The one on my ST150 engine looks like it would be level with the lowest point of the bellhousing!

quote:

---

Originally posted by scootz
I'm guessing there are different sumps for different Ford Duratec models... ???

The one on my ST150 engine looks like it would be level with the lowest point of the bellhousing!

---

Aaaargh... thought I'd scored by buying an unused and uprated Zetec clutch kit at a bargain price, but it's the wrong size!

It's a 240mm kit and the ST150 engine is a 220mm one!

You want an uprated RS Turbo clutch (or any other 220mm ford pressure plate) and a HD pinto friction plate

I assume the ST150 engine had the solid flywheel on then?

David

[Edited on 12/11/09 by flak monkey]

It does indeed... I remembered the bit about an up-rated Zetec clutch, but forgot to check if there were different sizes!

DOH!

Started stripping the Duratec today with the intention of fitting the forged rods and pistons. Started at around 12 and just finished.

Before picture:


Strip 1


The first thing to do was slacken the crank pulley bolt. Was too much of a problem, sliced up an old pressure plate to lock the crank against the engine stand and it came undone fairly easily.

Next cam cover came off, had it off when I first got the engine so was painless


Strip 3

Next removed the front cover, took out all the bolts and gave it a few taps with a hammer to remove it. It was suprisingly clean inside, no signs of burnt on oil or exessive wear on anything. I have yet to scrape all of the old sealant off the flanges.


Strip 4

Next step was to remove the cam chain, which means removing the chain tensioner by undoing the two bolts then removing the 2 guides. The chain then simply lifts off.


Strip 5

Next the cams were removed, taking careful note of the position and orientation of the caps.

Then came the first suprise...the exhaust cam is snapped next to the 3rd cap from the front. Thankfully there doesnt seem to be any damage to the head, valves or anything other than the cam itself. The break looks clean and it doesnt look like the engine has been run with the cam broken. So just as well I decided to strip the engine to fit forged parts afterall! Now on the hunt for a std exhaust cam!

Anyway, head was removed without drama, making sure the bolts were slackened in reverse order.


Strip 6

Next came the conrod bolts. These are torx headed, but male rather than female and need the appropriate socket. Not particularly tight. Again these were removed and the caps numbered.

The the main bearing ladder bolts are very tight, just need a long breaker bar though.


Strip 7

After that the cranks lifted out and the pistons pushed out.

Next job is to take the crank, pulley and timing gear to Scholar to get them keyed.

David

[Edited on 14/11/09 by flak monkey]

Looking good!

I remember reading somewhere that the cam chain tensioner can cause issues of duratecs.

Are you planning to replace/upgrade?

Thanks.

My understanding was that there have been issues with the tenisioner at prolonged high revs (i.e. race use) but in normal driving and with a 7500rpm or less rev limit the standard one was ok.

I know SBD do an aftermarket one to fit though.

David

What are you guys doing with the plumbing... ???

I had resigned myself to going down the Raceline route, but as I've bags of room in the engine bay I thought I'd just core-plug one of the ports on the OEM outlet and route piping to the rad. Am I being a tad simplistic, or is it simply a case of 'if the cap fits... '???

I was going to use some 32mm stainless tube to bring the outlet on the back of the head to the front and then simply connect to the rad.

Its a job for the next month or so.

Should be simple enough to fabricate a pipe to do it rather than spend a fortune on a water rail

David

I'm trying to visualize the OE outlet... am I right in thinking it has 2 large diameter opposing outlets and one smaller one???

It has 4 connections IIRC 32mm, 2 off 19mm and a 6mm IIRC.

So 32mm to rad, 19mm to header tank, other to thermostat bypass and 6mm air bleed to header.


David

Cheers David.

Continued with the engine rebuild today.

Deglazed the bores and then washed everything down to get rid of the grit.

Fitted the ARP main studs into the block. Removed, inspected and cleaned the bearings in both the block and the ladder.


ARP Mains

Fitted the pistons to the rods, which was a nice clean and easy job with the fully floating pins. There's definately a knack to fitting spriolocks though, and it seems to be a quick shove with a piece of dowel!

Also fitted the rings, which was a nice easy job, did them all by hand this time. I did check the ring end gap before fitting them to the pistons and all seemed well.


Rods and pistons

Next the pistons and rods were fitted to the block. Also fitted the ARP head studs


ARP head studs

Closer examination of the head reveals 4 bent exhaust valves from when the exhaust cam snapped. More expense which I could do without at the moment. Its looking more and more like the engines not going to be ready and the whole projects slipping behind at the moment.

Next job is to take the crank to be modified by Scholar on monday morning, this can then be refitted back into the block

David

i can sort you new valves out cheaper than retail, you still have my email?

how much did you manage to get the arps for in the end?? were Arrow useful??
And i spoke to Scholar about my bottom end, been there for 3 weeks now and on Friday they hadn't even started....lol. No prob as i dont have time anyway at mo.
cant wait to see mine looking like that

Got them from arrow, £75.15+vat so cant complain really!

I am taking my crank down to Scholar on monday and they are doing it while I wait hopefully anyway!

Going to get both my ali crank pulley and the std one keyed I think.

David

cool, progress is being made. cant wait to see both done

Another busy day today.

Took the crank down to Scholar Engines in near Stowmarket to get the crank keyed. Top job and turned it around in 2 hours for me as well! So I was home just after lunch.


Keyed crank


keyed pulley and gear

Cleaned it all up and fitted to the block. Torqued up the ARP main studs then fitted the conrods to the crank, again with ARP bolts.


Crank and rods refitted

Then fitted the gear to the crank and the oil pump and fitted the modified oil pick up pipe.


Oil pump drive

I also nearly finished modifying the chain cover. The engine mount is redundant and possibly in the way of the belt so I cut it off with the grinder. Still need to tidy it up a bit, then probably paint the cover to tidy it up, though I may not.

This is the std front cover with the fwd engine mount


Std front cover

And this is the same cover with the mount removed


Modded front cover

I will make some bungs for the old bolt holes too as they arent required any more either. Or I could counterbore the holes and fit cap heads. Not really decided yet!

New garage needs a nice girly calendar on the wall

Engine is coming along nicely now. Can wait to hear it running.

Been fettling the head and getting it ready to fit this weekend, in amongst pulling some ceilings down in the flat. So all in all a productive and destructive weekend all around!

I took the oppotunity while the head was off to remove all the casting marks from the ports and smooth off the short turns in the inlet ports as these had a sharp edge in, similar to that seen in the early pinto heads. Other than that the ports are incredibly well shaped from the factory so I didnt remove a lot of material.

My felxi shaft broke halfway through which means I couldnt really touch the dividers in the ports as I didnt have enough reach, that said they arent bad, and with the amount of turbulence the supercharger is going to create I dont think it will matter too much!

I also removed all the sharp edges from the inside of the combustion chamber to prevent any hotspots then gave them a quick once over to smooth them over. There isnt really a spotface for the valve inserts, which was good, so other than removing the edge, they were left as machined.

Final job was to lap the valves in which didnt take too long as the seats were in very good condition anyway.

Heres the pics of the finished article. Apologies for the crappy quality, forgot my camera today so these are off the phone!

Inlet ports:

Head rebuild 1


Head rebuild 3


Head rebuild 6

General view of combustion chambers:

Head rebuild 2

Exhaust ports:

Head rebuild 4


Head rebuild 5


All this was followed by a thorough hosing down and blowing all the passages out with the airline to remove all traces of swarf.

Just waiting for the uprated valve springs to arrive now. Thought it was worth fitting them now while the head was off, so if I decide to change the cam at any time I dont need to take the head off again!

Very nice!

[Edited on 7/12/09 by scootz]

slightly of topic , i have in the last 12 months fitted an st170 engine its badged as a duretec but its i think a transition engine between the zetec and duratec .
cast block and ally head but with vvt .
with A very restrictive ex manifold ie a standard rhsc zetec one its producing over 200 bhp on jenvies and megasquirt mapping .
by the way i do like the look of that duratec engine ,
all the best with the project graham

Thanks Graham

Yes the ST170 is a zetec engine with VVT for the extra power

I have done a bit more today, but will put a full on update on at the end of the weekend.

All being well the engine will be fully build, new sump fitted and everything ready for the car. Then it will be on to making the supercharger brackets

A little more progress today. I can't feel my toes, but there we go!

This morning I made my clutch slave cylinder spacer. I skimmed a bit of material off the bellhousing so I could make a spacer thick enough to counterbore the heads of the SHCS into it.

Not bolted it in yet.


Clutch spacer

Refitted all the valves to the cylinder head yesterday afternoon. Bit of a tedious job. Found the best way to refit the collets was with some grease on a screwdriver, unless you have really small fingers!

Springs were replaced with uprated kent cams ones as the standard ones are a bit weak.


Head rebuild 7


Head rebuild 9


Head rebuild 10

Then I set about refitting the cylinder head. Lubed up all the ARP studs before slipping the head on as its virtually impossible to reach them once the head is on. Used some grease in a socket to fit the nuts and then torqued it all up.


Head on

Once that was on I refitted the camshafts and torqued the caps. Then checked all the valve clearances, looks like I will need a few new buckets! More expense!

Then I fitted the new sump. Leak tested it last night and all seemed ok, then fitted the windage tray and then cleaned it all out again. Sprayed it with high temp paint this morning before starting the other jobs. Its more silver than it looks in the pics.

Put a bead of loctite 5900 around the flange and popped it on the engine. A bit of a fiddle to ensure the flaps dont get stuck in the wrong place.


Sump fitted 1


Sump fitted 2

Think that will probably be it for this weekend, too damn chilly out!

Looking good!

Quick question - how the hell does the alternator tensioner work on these engines?

We have the one from the 2.0 mondeo (but will be using the 1800 foci one as you have) but it looks like they both operate in a similar manner.

Are they sprung? We cant get ours to move in any direction at all?! It has a couple of arrows on but we've had it in a vice etc trying to move it but no luck?

Is there any adjustment in them?

Hi Dan,

The focus one swivels.

Looking at it from the front (pulley side) it should be spring loaded if you try and turn it anticlockwise. Put a big spanner on the hex in the middle of the pulley and try to turn it anticlockwise and it should move against the spring.

The mondeo one is also similar but fits on the bottom left of the block.

David

lloking awesome now David, i do love the look of a nice lean engine coing together. And i guess the Kent springs arrived first...lol.
manaed to get some done on mine yesterday too, but was too cold. will load some pics too

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Hi Dan,

The focus one swivels.

Looking at it from the front (pulley side) it should be spring loaded if you try and turn it anticlockwise. Put a big spanner on the hex in the middle of the pulley and try to turn it anticlockwise and it should move against the spring.

The mondeo one is also similar but fits on the bottom left of the block.

David

---

Thats correct. Turn tensioner anticlockwise with spanner, then slip the belt over and release.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Flywheel part number

---

Ahh I just read brooke cars have squeezed 400bhp out of a supercharged duratec!

add this head and you can go even further

http://www.motordesign.se/start.asp?page=3en

wonder what that costs....I know a race head is looking the best part of £1300

Got the supercharger mount 90% finished today. Need to tidy up some of the welds and cap the ends of the box section.

The box is 20x20x1.5, the laser cut plate is 6mm steel. The box has crush tubes welded in where the bolts go through.

The alignment is pretty good I think. Within about .25mm. Having had a measure up for a shim, it only needs a 0.7mm shim behind the front bolt at the bottom to make it spot on.

Having done some calcs the supercharger is going to pull around 15bhp at 7250rpm and 14psi boost. Hopefully the brackets will take it.


Charger mounting 4


Charger mounting 5


Charger mounting 6


Charger mounting 8


Charger mounting 9

[Edited on 28/12/09 by flak monkey]

looks very good dave, looks nice and tight to the block too which is vital

Thanks, yep theres not much space. The laser cut plate is touching the front cover, I need to trim a little off it. Theres just enough space to get the oil feed banjo on next to the block

Had a measure up today and defo need to move the steering column. Will wait to get the engine in and see where its going to fit!

lol, i was thinking the same. may have to move a few bits and bobs

15 HP at 7000RPM (i'm assuming crank and compressor pulley are approximately the same diameter) equates to 15Nm of torque or, when using a pulley diameter of 3 inch, roughly 200N of force on the outer edge of the pulley. Looking at the brackets you've made, the compressor might try to rotate around its height axis. Could you add a gusset between the box section of the bottom mount and the lasercut compressor mount plate to prevent this? It looks like it would need to be below the box section and that you'd need to switch to allen bolts.

Does this make sense?

[Edited on 28/12/09 by sebastiaan]

Thanks for that. I did wonder about fitting a gusset at the bottom. Would need to weld another piece of plate on along the bottom of the laser cut plate though.

I understand where the torque fig comes from, but not sure about the force one?

If the pulley needs 15Nm of torque to turn it at 7000rpm then the force is the radius of the pulley divided by the torque isnt it? So for a 3" pulley that would equate to 400N.

The pulley on the supercharger is 95mm OD so the force would be 315N or ~32kg. I may end up with a smaller pulley though, depending on how much boost is lost in the rest of the system and how mental I feel once I have driven it for the first time!

ETA: Just found this

http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/e3_5a.htm

Plugging the relevant numbers in gives a shaft load of 302N so the calcs above arent far out.

[Edited on 29/12/09 by flak monkey]

Finished the supercharger mount yesterday morning, and just made myself a shim to align the pulleys perfectly.

Incidently I found that Gates specify a maximum shaft parallelism error of 0.25 degrees for poly vee drives.


Finished charger mount 1


Finished charger mount 2


Finished charger mount 3

I have also been having a looking at where to put idlers for the best belt wrap on the crank pulley and the supercharger pulley.

I think one of the standard Duratec idlers will work between the crank and the alternator. Need to just swap the bolt out for a 10mm one.


Idlers 2

I then need to make 2 more, a 45mm and 50mm one for either side of the supercharger pulley

Fantastic work Flak!
That is going to be mental, wish I had the time to tinker again, would love to do another project.
Keep up the good work mate!

Took delivery of a set of Nissan Sunny GTiR throttle bodies with their plenum today.


Plenum 1


Plenum 2

Its nicely shaped and has a handy port for the dump valve to be fitted to as well. Its also exceptionally lightweight - which suprised me somewhat.

The idea is to use the plenum, with a modified backplate connect to my GSXR throttle bodies.

I will probably cut the back out of the existing backplate (below) and then have a 5mm thick aluminium plate welded in with stub tubes to suit the GSXR throttle bodies. Then I just need to figure out how to bolt it all together so it doesnt blow itself apart.


Plenum 3

The port spacing of the throttle bodies does match the Duratec, but sadly I cannot see a way to mount them up to the head particularly easily. Not and keep the flow into the head nice and smooth anyway.

And this is what I intend to make to mate the plenum to the throttle bodies.

The plate is 6mm laser cut aluminium. The adaptors to fit on the throttle bodies fit into this, held on with 4 off M4 dome head screws, loctited in.


GTiR plenum adaptor cad

The adaptors themselves will be turned fom aluminium and glued to the throttle bodies with Loctite 648 retaining adhesive.




Hopefully it should make for a neat and compact solution to feeding the throttle bodies with the inlet charge from the intercooler

Spent the last weekend before returning to work (yawn! ) making the idler pulleys for the supercharger belt and modifying the throttle bodies to fit the adaptors above.

Basically I mounted each one up in the lathe and took a few light cuts to clean up the outer ends


Modded throttle bodies

This will allow the adaptor plates to be glued on accurately. Just waiting for the material to arrive, then I can get those made.

Sent off the drawing for the plenum backplate today, just waiting for one to be laser cut now!

I also made 2 45mm dia idler pulleys to fit either side of the supercharger pulley to increase the wrap and to keep the belt out of the way of other important things!

This highlighted the fact that I need to shave another 1mm off the front cover. The measurements suggest that this will leave it 2mm thick. If I dont go too mad with the angry grinder!


Idler pulley

One goes here:

Idler pulley 2

And the other goes in the other bolt hole just below the belt in the pic. Gives loads of wrap on the pulley and hopefully will stop it slipping.

Another poly vee drive snippet of info. Gates' give a rough average of a max of 10hp per rib on poly vee pulleys. So quite a lot really!

Simply awesome work.

Keep it up!

Looking very good indeed. Good idea using the GTIR stuff - had no idea they ran individual TB's as standard.

I'm coming round to this supercharger lark.....

Finished the assembly of the engine today

Setting up the cam timing:


Cams fitted 2

Left the cam sprockets loose to allow the crank to be rotated to TDC before tightening the bolts up to lock off the cams.


Cams fitted 3


Finding TDC

I then fitted the front cover, sealed with Loctite 5900. Managed to shear one of the bolts off though, so will be drilling that out tomorrow!

Then fitted the new cam cover gaskets and fitted the cover. The water pump pulley. Just need to get some longer M6 bolts for the idler pulleys so I can get them fitted and get measured up for the belt, which will no doubt be fun.


Finshed engine 1


Finished engine 2

looking bloody awesome, really is coming together. I am waiting to see how it looks with the belt all fitted up, really am going to have problems getting mine in so will help to see ways about bits and bobs.

Keep on trooping

Saucier than a direct hit on a Heinz factory!

Finished fitting the idler pulleys tonight, also got a rough idea of the length of belt needed. Looks to be around 2 to 2.1m


Pulleys finished 1


Pulleys finished 2


Pulleys finished

Looking forward to dropping the engine into the engine bay this weekend to see how it all fits.

Had a quick look at the steering column relocation as well. I might just get away with only one extra joint.

David

hay dave,
where and what are them idlers from?? coudl do with a set my self....
Also, how have you fixed them all on??
cheers

I made them I couldnt find any the right size.

I put highspeed bearings in anyway.

They are bolted into two of the front cover holes.

David

Another shiney present arrived today. A set of Caterham branded Cosworth roller barrels!

They bolt direct to the cylinderhead, which means I might just be able to keep the plenum inside the confines of the bonnet for the sleeper look. They are only 95mm deep without the trumpets fitted.

The intension is to make a backplate for the plenum to bolt direct to the throttlebodies now, rather than all the bits and pieces I was going to do with the GSXR ones!

I just need to find some much shorter trumpets to fit so I can fit some inside the plenum.

Here follows much automotive pornography!

Oh noes, a box of newspaper!

Roller barrels 1

Maybe not!

Roller barrels 2


Roller barrels 4


Roller barrels 5

I wonder if the Cateringvan lawyers will mind?


Roller barrels 6

And the final thing is I need to find a TPS to fit on here:

Roller barrels 3

I know what I will be doing tomorrow evening

looks like ford zetec E tps woudl fit that, i do happen to have one lying about too
ps, may get in touch about some idler's too if cool, still got issue with dry sump though, would have to make all the bits to move it across....not good. lol.

Just fitted the new roller barrels. Snug fit next to the tensioner, and looks like I will need an additional spacer to allow the plenum to clear the tensioner. I guess the other alternative is to change the tensioner.


Roller barrels fitted 1


Roller barrels fitted 2


Roller barrels fitted 4


Roller barrels fitted 3

caterham parts show one for non roller barrell so assume the other is for roller bearings. or could go for raceline

The tensioner fits ok, its the fact I need a spacer to make the plenum clear it now

Will get all the bits for the plenum laser cut in the next week or so.

Also expecting my radiator/intercooler in the next couple of weeks

Big day today. Decided to get the engine trial fitted in the chassis, thankfully everything seems to fit and I am very pleased that I put the supercharger on the exhaust side, I dont think it would have fitted in the chassis on the inlet side.

Fitted the bellhousing to the engine as this will determine the fore/aft position of the engine in the chassis ultimately.


Engine test fitting 1


Engine test fitting 2

Then dropped the engine into the bay (obviously with the nose off to start with!)


Engine test fitting 3


Engine test fitting 4

Then spent a little time getting the height right. There is about 5mm clearance to the bonnet, which should hopefully be enough. I could alway make a new lower profile cap at a later date.


Engine test fitting 5

The sump will be around 25mm below the chassis, which is less than the pinto was, so I will end up with a little more ground clearance


Engine test fitting 10

Thankfully only one more joint is needed in the steering column and the rally design plined column is exactly the right length for the second link. So now I need to make some supports for some rose joints to hold this part.


Engine test fitting 6

Theres around 25mm clearance all around the bellhousing cut aways. Which is nice. The engine can't really go any further back anway. In this position the gearstick should also be in about the right place I think.


Engine test fitting 7

Theres about 10mm between the alternator bracket and the brake pipe. I need to make a new pipe anyway, so will try and make some more room around here


Engine test fitting 8

But plenty of room around the rotrex for the column


Engine test fitting 9

Tomorrows job is to make the engine mounts and steering column support mounts too


Engine test fitting 11

[Edited on 22/1/10 by flak monkey]

looks very good. does fit in nicely. Think i will have to move two chassis rails, the two diagonals coming forward each side of the engine on mine come alot further forward at less of an angle. Can move them to be like yours with no problems.
Great to see it in the car though, bet your well pleased

what sort of height differene or how much lower would a honda s2000 motor sit in the chassis as you seem to have plenty of room!

As far as I know the S2000 is a bit of a large engine. I have seen a dax with one fitted, the engine had to be mounted at an angle to get it in ( perhaps matching the std install?)

The gearbox is quite large as well

Looking good there David! It seems to be far enough backwards in the 'ole!

Have fun making the engine mounts, but it might be a good idea to do one more trail fit but with the gearbox attached? If it does not fit now and you've already made the engine mounts you would need to redo them or do a chop-chop job on the tunnel...

Thanks Sebastiaan, I did fit the gearbox this morning as I was thinking the same thing

The gearbox is snug, but theres at least 10mm clearance all around. It physically cannot go any further back though.

I need to tidy up where I roughly ground off the old gearbox mounts this morning. I will be making new ones tomorrow from box section.


Gearbox fitted 1

I will be modifying the westy/caterham gearbox mount slighty to allow me to fit a piece of 20x20 box each side to bolt it to.


Gearbox fitted 2

There's not an awful lot of room down there. The brake pipe is actually well away from the box, not how it looks in the pic, must be the angle


Gearbox fitted 3

Made the engine mounts today. A job which seems to have taken all day for some reason, but never mind! They will of course be painted at a later date! For now they are supporting the engines weight.


Engine mounts 1


Engine mounts 2

And it all leaves me with a decent amount of ground clearance. Could even wind it down a bit if I wanted to. Theres about 4" to the sump now.


Ground clearane

[Edited on 23/1/10 by flak monkey]

Got the gearbox mounts welded in today. After a bit of hassle with the welder, think I could do with a new liner. No problem with the weld pentration, just not very tidy!

Anyway, made 2 closed end tubes with crush tubes in to bolt the westy gearbox mount to.


Gearbox mount

Will get a coat of paint on it one evening this week.

Had to split the engine and box again to fit the flywheel and clutch. St150 flywheel fitted with ARP bolts. Cover is an AP racing CP3560-2 rated to 230lbft of torque (expecting around 220lbft) and a competition AP racing pinto friction plate (CP5351-1).


Flywheel and clutch fitted

Also spent a bit of time cleaning the car inside, as everything was covered in oil from when the pinto was extracted, and then covered in angry grinder dust, so now a much nicer place to work

Removed the old battery and now there's space for the shiney new one!


New battery

Seems like a few steps backward today as well as the engine and box are out again and wont be back in until I have a new prop shaft.

Next job is to determine how much clutch pedal travel I need to get the release bearing travel I need. Which means getting some adaptors made for the hydraulics. Then I can get the master cylinder fitted and new clutch pedal made next weekend. Also need to start thinking about finally fitting the battery, swirlpot, rotrex oil tank and header tank on the footwell tops. Should be enough space anyway. I would also like to get the steering column refitted with the extra link.

[Edited on 24/1/10 by flak monkey]

You did a veeeeeery nice job !
Although I think you can get much nicer (better) welds with a TIG.

Looking real nice. Really can't wait to see it running and driving

nice porgress david.

i will soon chasing a new engine conversion, as the duratec did not do so well.lol

stuart

just a quick one, what are you planning for a fuel pump??
i am sitting just looking for bits right now...lol

I am using a GSL392 external pump to feed the fuel injection:

http://store.looseboltsmotorsports.com/waexfupu.html

Really small pump (about 2/3 the size of a bosch) and the same flow capacity. 70US gallons/hr

And a red top facet to keep the swirl pot topped up. Although the facet cannot supply enough fuel to run the pump flat out all the time (45us gal/hr), the 2 litres in the swirl pot should be enough buffer.

The only low pressure pumps I could find to supply enough fuel to match the GSL392 were american V8 pumps.

As a general rule, multiply your BHP by 0.47 to get your fuel requirements in litres per hour for forced incduction. So you want at least 155lph pump (assuming 330bhp) which is 40US GPH so maybe a redtop will be enough for flat out....

wonderful, cheers dave. i will have a little look at some

Slowish weekend this one, for 2 reasons. 1 its been bloody freezing and 2 I managed to damage myself on saturday morning, meaning I only have the use of one opposable thumb at the moment

Anyway...

Friday evening I made a special M12x1 to -3 hose fitting for the bleed connection to my clutch slave cylinder. They are prety simple to make really, and I dont know why I didnt do it sooner.

This meant I could get the cylinder finally fitted to the bellhousing so its ready to be finally bolted up to the engine next weekend. The main feed hose is -4 as this seemed more common for clutches.

All bolts were loctited in just to be on the safe side as they arent biting on much thread


Fitted slave cylinder

I also, thankfully, checked the operation of the gearbox before finally fitting it to the car and found I couldnt select gears properly. I had forgotten to correctly locate the centring bit on the selector shaft and it was catching on another part. All fixed now though

Next job was to make the mounts for the steering column downlink bearing. I have decided I will be adding in another tube yet. I intend to add another down from the diagonal to the nut holding the rose joint, as due to the length of the current one Its not going to be strong enough long term. Will get that done next weekend, and then get all the bits painted.. All being well the column will now clear the supercharger!

I had to make a sleeve for the column to pass through the rose joint, just drille dout a piece of steel tube and spot welded it to the shaft, then turned the lot down in the lathe so it was a nice sliding fit for the joint.


Steering column modded 1


Steering column modded 2

The job for today was drilling and tapping all of the plenum parts. I had the plates water jet cut by andyw7de who did an excellent job, and very quick too (5 days turn around).

There are 3 plates, 1 spacer plate to give a little more room inside the plenum, this is 1/2" thick. 1 back plate for the plenum which is 8mm thick and then a spacer plate to space the plenum out enough to clear the tensioner, this is 3/4" thick.

Backplate and spacer after drilling and tappping


Plenum bits 1

3/4" spacer before drilling to suit throttle bodies


Plenum bits 2

And the final thing after lots of marking out and drilling! Hopedully it will all fit nicely.


Plenum bits 3


Plenum bits 4


Plenum bits 5

Next weekend its time to sort the clutch pedal and slave cylinder mountings. Remake a couple of brake lines, then move the fuel feed and return. After thats all done the engine can go in and stay in finally

wow, very impressive dave, i wish i was able to spend as much time working on mine at the mo.
I think that your plenum will look awesome too, really is great fun to read through these pages

Neet work!!!
Doing the same inlet at the moment,in a vx.but my air trumpets ned to b shortened,so they can face the back plate,got any pic from inside the plenum?

Not sure what you mean about pics inside the plenum? The inside looks exactly as shown above....

I will be fitting the shortest trumpets I can inside the plenum, IIRC they are 15mm long. I also need to drill and tap the backplate for the air temp sensor to fit into. Need to work out the temp curve for the cosworth air temp sensor......

All this effort to squeeze out some more BHP out of a Duratec

FYI: Soon Ford and Volvo will start selling cars with a 2.0 GTDI (Gasoline Turbo direct injection). The engine has about the same size as a Duratec and will have 203 BHP / 300 Nm as standard.

I think in about 2 years, the GTDI will become the successor of the Zetec/Duratec in kitcars.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Breaker
All this effort to squeeze out some more BHP out of a Duratec

FYI: Soon Ford and Volvo will start selling cars with a 2.0 GTDI (Gasoline Turbo direct injection). The engine has about the same size as a Duratec and will have 203 BHP / 300 Nm as standard.

I think in about 2 years, the GTDI will become the successor of the Zetec/Duratec in kitcars.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
You can get 200bhp from a std duratec with just throttle bodies anyway.

This should end up around 300bhp and 300Nm

---

Fair enough, but I am not really interested in fuel economy....

Just been doing a bit more reading and 11psi will give 310bhp. Jamsport have run this level on a totally stock bottom end for 17,000miles with no reliability issues.

My ultimate aim is 15psi, will be interesting to see what that gives.....

Recipe for speeding points surely

quote:

---

Originally posted by eddie99
Recipe for speeding points surely

---

i so which i could carry on with my install, as i was going to use a eaton supercharging in a few years time.

nice work david, i will love to this a some shows, and meet you would be good as well.

stuart

Should be at Stoneleigh, if all goes to plan....and it doesnt go bang on the way!

optimistic
I am the same with mine, hoping the fist time it turns over all gos well.
Another one for you.....Do you knwo what starter will work with my flywheel set up?
would a duratec ka one work?
cheers dave

What do you have again? I cant remember.

There are essentially 2 different starters, the mondeo one and the St150 one.

The St150 sits closer to the block as the flywheel is slightly smaller than the mondeo one.

I *think* all the aftermarket steel flywheels use the mondeo one.

The Ka engine is totally different.

David

titan flywheel so i need to find a mondeo one, or some smaller equivilant if there is one.
cheers david

ps, charger bracket is made so i can now look at mounting into the chassis to work out the alternator mounting....should be fun...lol

any news on your rad and coooler yet? mine wont be ready for another month yet lol
cant wait to see what they will come out like

Do i need to get my helmet and gloves out yet?

Is it finished yet?

The rad is done, intercooler will be sorted early next week hopefully.

Was hoping the prop would be ready this week so I could finally fit the engine, but sadly its not finished yet.

Looks like it will be next weekend for the final fitment now

David

Very little progress this week. Crap week at work hasnt really put me in the best frame of mind for working on the car.

Did get a few little jobs done however...

Beefed up the steering column support, painted and fitted the column properly too. Seems much better now


Steering column support


Column finished

Fitted the oil filter housing from Raceline, was expecting it until next week, but there we go Fingers crossed the filter will clear the chassis.


Oil filter housing

Bolted down the battery on the top of the footwell. Amazingly small compared to the old one, and will allow me to mount the header tank above it and still clear the bonnet. This will leave me more room to fit the swirl pot and oil tank for the rotrex up on the footwells too.


Battery and tanks

GRS also sent over some pics of the radiator which is nearly finished, just need to fit the bleed connection on the top of the right hand tank. Its basically the same frontal area as a polo radiator, but is a twin tube core and the pipes are designed to clear the chassis better. They will be making the intercooler this week, so all being well I should have that next weekend....









Hopefully things will go better next weekend and I can get the engine mounts beefed up and the engine finally mounted in the chassis.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Very little progress this week. Crap week at work hasnt really put me in the best frame of mind for working on the car.

---

I work as a project engineer, but am also getting more involved in production management more and more every day it seems....

The last couple of weeks have been hell as we had a load of machines down, but things seem to be picking up now *touch wood*

that rad looks absolutley perfect

i dread to think but how much?

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
I work as a project engineer, but am also getting more involved in production management more and more every day it seems....

The last couple of weeks have been hell as we had a load of machines down, but things seem to be picking up now *touch wood*

---

I work for a specialist bearing company. The projects are varied, I usually get involved in procuring new machinery rather than the site improvement stuff. That includes everything from selecting the kit, justifying it, sorting tooling, capability trials, training, and long term support to the shop floor. The machinery can be anything from £2k wash tanks to £250k+ grinders.

I also am responsible for the technical side of 6 manufacturing areas (3 turning (upto around 500mm dia) 2 grinding and hardturning (internal and external) and the raw material cut off). If any of the areas have any technical problems they come and see me... so its pretty varied, but when machines are out of action it becomes a nightmare.

Anyway as this is starting to sound like a CV....

GRS have just sent some more piccies of the radiator and intercooler over for my perusal Looks like its coming on well. Theres just the tight 90deg 50mm tubes to weld on by the looks of it. The intercooler is 50mm core, and bolts to the front of the radiator. I will fit some strips top and bottom to force any air that goes through the intercooler to pass through the radiator too...unless GRS beat me to it









And no its not cheap But should be more than adequate!

Made a little more progress yesterday, and dropped the engine and gearbox in finally tonight. Need to torque the bellhouing bolts, but access is easy.

Welded in some additional plates on the chassis, the intention being that tomorrow I will be spending the day beefing up the engine mounts by adding in another tube and rubber mount on each one.


Mount plates 1


Mount plates 2

Drilled the hole in the bulkhead for the clutch master cylinder. Should give a pedal ratio of around 4.5:1 which should give a light enough pedal and progressive clutch hopefully! Though yet to try it out...

Also made a new brake pipe to avoid the master cylinder and tidy it all up a bit as I never was happy with the original pipe work.


Clutch cylinder mount and new

Got the new prop fitted as well. Went for a heavy duty one from Dunning and Fairbank. Highly recommended, quick turn around (1 week) and beat everyone else on price


New prop 1

Thankfully theres loads of clearance between the supercharger and the column now, around 15mm all around.


Column clearance

Fitted the oil filter as well so I know how much room I have for the engine mount modifications. Thankfully there's plenty of room around there.


Oil filter fitted

Also looks like my intercooler and rad is nearly finished by the pics I have just had from GRS

looks very good, how tall is the cooler ocmplete with the pipe connections, they look like they poke up quite high.....worried abotu how tight it will be.
And i got issues fitting my engine, it dont fit in the bay...lol. Moving some bits of chassis as we speak
you dont realise how tight these engine bays are till you try...lol
Yours is looking very good now david, keep up with the pics etc, wish i'd done the same

The dimensions are as in the drawings, think I posted them earlier in this thread somewhere...

Glad I didnt have to move any chassis rails!

Finished off the engine mounts today after concerns they werent up to the job. Hopefully now they should take the stick!

This pic shows the angle of the mounts from the front


Finished engine mounts 1

Passenger side


Finished engine mounts 4

Drivers side


Finished engine mounts 3

The rad and intercooler are finished too and should be here next week







Next weekends jobs are mounting the oil cooler for the supercharger. Adding in an additional bolt bracket on the supercharger bracket which will increase the stiffness of the mount considerably. Mounting the swirl pot and header tank. Connecting up the clutch and checking for leaks. Starting to suss out the wiring and pipework for the engine bay.

that looks awesome david,

great work

stuart

that does look amazing. cant wait for mine

Modded the throttle bodies tonight to give me a point to take a MAP signal from each. Oddly most off the shelf throttle bodies seem to only come with TPS as standard and no option for map.

Nerve racking drilling into several hundred quids worth of throttle bodies, but there we go...

Fitted an M5 threaded, 4mm hose tail into each port. Sealed in with Loctite 542 thread sealant.

Once modded they were fitted up again, and hopefully wont be coming off again any time soon Throttle stops all set and locked off too to cosworths recommended base settings.


Throttle body mods 1



Throttle body mods 2



Throttle body mods 3


Throttle body mods 14


Throttle body mods 5

looks briliant, not sure if i woudl be brave enough..lol. Are you going to run them to a little break tank or just tee them straight to the map sensor??
Some seem to use a little tank to loose any chance of pulses....
wont be long till she runs

I will probably run them to a small tank as I need to split the MAP signal between the ECU, fuel pressure regulator and dump valve...

Getting a bit worried about progress at the moment, as I need to get enough time in to get it mapped on the road before stoneleigh otherwise I'll be in the tintop

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkeyotherwise I'll be in the tintop

---

lol, i am sure you will make it, unfortunately i am garunteed to be in tin top, bt am awiting a peek at yours

Great progress flak. Have you thought about fitting a full fire extinguisher system? Wouldnt want a small leak to end in disaster!

Made a little more progress this afternoon. Had to come in as its really quite cold and damp outside now

First job was to add another bit to the supercharger bracket. There was a bolt hole in just the right place, and the mod should stiffen up the bracket as I was concerned about it twisting should I start to increase boost.


Supercharger mount mod 2

Also got the water outlet fitted after drilling and tapping to fit the water temp thermocouple for the dash. Can start working out the cooling pipe layout, along with fuel pipe layout etc.


Water outlet and coil

Next started making the mounting brackets for the supercharger oil cooler.


Charger oil cooler 1


Charger oil cooler 2

Tomorrow I plan to start having a look at the mounts for the rad/intercooler. Then I really need to test out the hydraulic clutch before finally starting to connect the electrics, cooling and fuel up.

looks very good, does look like it will start gettint tight once pipes start going in.
Out of interest, what injectors are you running now? one in the Tb's? any idea on size yet???
I basically trying to work out what power you think you will be seeing now
now you got the roller barrels on there

Also, are you going to run an oil cooler for the engine too???
Cheers dave

[Edited on 20/2/10 by goaty]

New injectors are 60lb/hr (630cc/min) siemens deka's which at std pressure should be enough for around 400bhp, which is more than I am looking for anyway.

Made some more progress today. Still havent got the clutch tested, but got plenty of other jobs done....

Fitted the fuel rail complete with the new injectors. It did originally foul the idle screw on the throttle bodies, so I had to cut that down. Also looks like access will be tight to the balance screws, but not impossible


Fuel rail fitted 1

Next job was to test fit the rad/intercooler. I have recycled the old 1.5mm thick stainless brackets I made for the original polo radiator, and just chopped them about a bit so that they suit the new rad/intercooler. I had to make sure that it was as close to chassis as possible, but still allowing space for the rad fan behind it as it is so thick there is no room at all to spare in the front.


rad fitting 1


Rad fitting 2

Once I was happy with the position of it, the brackets were riveted to the chassis. And this is how its all ened up. Very happy with the fitment. Theres 3mm clear to the chassis on the bottom hose, and the same to the intercooler hoses in the nose.


Rad fitting 3


Rad fitting 4


Rad fitting 5


Rad fitting6


Rad fitting 7

Test fitted the plenum with the spacers too. Looks like I could skim around 5mm off the thick spacer, and maybe 3mm off the middle spacer. This would mean there would be plenty of clearance between the plenum and the inside of the bonnet and mean nothing sticking out the side of the bonnet.


Plenum test fitting 1


Plenum test fitting 2

Its going to be tight in several places once all the pipe work is in situ, so I am trying to mock as much up as possible now so I can figure out where everything is going to end up. Spent some time tidying the wiring too, looks like it will all work out ok.

Last job today was to mock up the supercharger to intercooler pipework, and it looks like it will work out as planned.


Intercooler pipe work mock up


Intercooler pipe work mock up

looks good, nice short pipework to cooler and looks neat!

that looks abosutley amazing, the look of it with all the bits coming together makes it look wicked, really love the pic looking from the front with the nose sat on.Bet you are really pleased with progress

wow, that is coming on nicely.

i do not think i would have been brave enough to drill those throttle boddies.lol

i am looking foward to seeing this.

keep up the good work david.

stuart

Stunning as usual... keep it up! Can't wait to see it this summer!

Looking very nice indeed, custom rad and cooler are bang on!

Have you got round to looking at fitting the pinto exhaust manifold yet?

We provisionally dropped our dura in over the weekend. I was looking at the manifold and hadnt appreciated the quite big difference in exhaust port spacing.

I'm just uming and ahing about which way to go. I've got a duratec flange, and my intention was to mod the existing headers to suit, but just not sure the best way to go about it.....

Exhaust is on the list of jobs for this weekend.

The middle 2 ports are pretty close (about 5-10mm) the outer 2 are further apart and need a bend welding in to get them to meet up. I reckon some welding/cutting and a 45deg bend should sort it.

David

i see you managed to sort out a tps, what was it off in the end? zetec??
do love the look of the plenum on it, sweps round lovely.

The TPS is from a duratec engined mondeo from what I can tell.

Got a new one from cosworth though as it was only £25

Itching to get back out in the garage really....shame the car's 20miles away

Should be able to test the clutch this week. If all OK then its time to sort the exhaust and finish the rest of the wiring....

wont be long till she firing up

Well the clutch seems to function (rocking the car backwards and forwards in gear it seems to release with spare travel ok).

Time will tell if there are any leaks anywhere inside the bellhousing.

The master cylinder just needs finally bolting in (could be challenging as access to bolts is tight to say the least!) and the clevis and pedal setting up properly. Which will be the first job next time I am in the garage.

Then its time to start sorting the plumbing for the radiator and fuelling. Its all going to be very tight, I know that much, and I think I will probably spend longer staring at the car trying to figure out where everything is going to go!

tell me about it, took me 3 hours today standing looking at making engine mounts, got the basis sorted at least, on with 2mo

just keep plugging, no questioning it will be tight, i got inboard suspension too

After the annoyance of having to have the engine out as the clutch cylinder was leaking, things are picking up again I think, though I dont want to speak too soon!

Spent all afternoon yesterday trying to cure the leak on the concentric slave cylinder. Typically it was the fitting I made that was leaking. Tightening it up some more seems to have cured the major leak. There was also a secondary leak from the compression fitting on the hose, which I also think I have now fixed...I'll find out sooner or later I guess!

Today has been spent getting the engine mounted back in the chassis properly making sure all the bellhousing bolts are tight and properly fitting the clutch master cylinder. Then loads of other little jobs...

Made new battery cables to suit from the more newer, more flexible stuff. Well recommended over the older hard to work with stuff.

Finished off the engine wiring too, just the coil pack to connect up when I can find a suitable connector for it and the VR sensor to connect.

Mocked up the top hose for the cooling too, need another 45 deg bend to bring it all in alignment though.

Started to try and figure out how to layout the fuel system too, as there's not much space. Looks like its all going to fit in there some how though.

Finished off a few more bits today.

Found a home for the fuel pump, which keeps it out of the way of all the other piping which has to fit in the same area. Just need to tidy up the wiring running alongside the battery. But I have yet to run the MAP line for the ECU, alternator charging cable and the starter cable.


Fuelling


Fuelling 2

This is the mock up of the top hose.


Top hose mock up

Mocked up the bottom hose to the radiator too which looks like it might just fit around everything else....


Bottom hose 1


Bottom hose 2

Finally finished the last idler pulley off too, so there is now a full complement of alloy pulleys on the engine.


Idlers

[Edited on 28/2/10 by flak monkey]

not too far left now

also, on the top of your roller barrel's, what are the what look like bleed screws for??

cheers

and i keep forgetting to ask what spark plugs you have gone for?? not sure which would suit best...lol

[Edited on 28/2/10 by goaty]

They are bleed screws so you can balance each individual throttle body

I have just put 1 stage colder plugs in than standard, can't remember what the number is off the top of my head though

Keep Plugging away David, You'll be done soon at that rate

David, looking good!

Just reading through some of your posts you keep mentioning you want around 300bhp/300Nm....

What have you done to your gearbox to rate it to that sort of power? I was under the impression that the heaviest duty "off the shelf" kits were rated to 280bhp/250 Nm(bgh) and 250bhp (quaife)...

With the power that you're getting, I wouldnt have thought the type 9 box is capable in any configuration of the power you're after....

Caterham use their own custom built box, and i'm assuming that had to be uprated for their X330 concept...

I find that given a gearbox upgrade is needed on an install this powerful brings in an added cost that has no real option of DIY...and hence the idea that an install such as yours can be done on the cheap, is slightly misleading...

[Edited on 2/3/10 by Tim 45]

Hi David,

As you've drilled your TB's (and are going to run MS2?), you might want to try the latest version of the MS2 extra code once the engine is ready to fire up. A change to the MAP sampling has been (finally!) implemented to make sure the MAP is only measured in a certain crank angle degree window (which you can specify). The code then uses the lowest value measured in that window. This should enable you to run just one MAP line from one throttlebody and do away with the horrendous map filter / transient detection killer / vacuum manifold that is so often used.

Good luck! ;-)

Sebastiaan

ETA: this topic describes the alorithm in a bit more detail: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=31877&hilit=sampling

[Edited on 1/3/10 by sebastiaan]

Just finished off my exhaust manifold. Took a bit of doing, but I am quite pleased with the results. The welding isnt the neatest, but there we go.

Started off by chopping the old flange off the pinto exhuast, then clamping cyl 2 and 3 runners in the right place using a jubilee clip. The spacing is about 10mm different between the duratec and pinto.


Exhaust 1

Cyl 1 and 4 required more adjustment, and I cut the runners back about 4". The cut and welded 2 mandrel bent 45 deg tubes to suit.


Exhaust 2

Not too worried about the visual appearance of the welds on the runners as they will be covered by exhaust wrap eventually.


Exhaust 3

And thankfully it all fits ok.


Exhaust 4

And there's plenty of clearance to the supercharger too.


Exhaust 5

Now going to go and sort the link pipe for between the manifold and silencer

excellent work on the manifold there, looks very neat, what are the main jobs left on the list before stonleigh? Also, out of interest, what has been the hardest bit of the conversion so far?

cheers!

Thanks, its coming on. Theres still quite a bit to do before stoneleigh, though I am hoping to get it running in the next couple of weeks.

I need to get the supercharger oil system finished, rad fan mounted, wiring for the coil and VR sensor, plumbing finally clipped in, rad fan mounted, fuel system finished, header tank mounted and thats about it for the engine side. After that the whole back end needs to be stripped down so I can change the diff and fit the discs etc. The suspension all needs repainting too.

Will see how I get on tomorrow, hoping to tidy up a lot of the small odd jobs tomorrow.

Cut the original link pipe to suit so now the exhaust is all sitting as it should


Exhaust finished

Also tidied up the top hose, just needs clipping to finish


Top hose

Not sure what the trickiest job has been. Nothings been really difficult but there has been a lot of things to work out along the way. Clutch has been a pain from start to finish...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim 45
David, looking good!

Just reading through some of your posts you keep mentioning you want around 300bhp/300Nm....

What have you done to your gearbox to rate it to that sort of power? I was under the impression that the heaviest duty "off the shelf" kits were rated to 280bhp/250 Nm(bgh) and 250bhp (quaife)...

With the power that you're getting, I wouldnt have thought the type 9 box is capable in any configuration of the power you're after....

Caterham use their own custom built box, and i'm assuming that had to be uprated for their X330 concept...

I find that given a gearbox upgrade is needed on an install this powerful brings in an added cost that has no real option of DIY...and hence the idea that an install such as yours can be done on the cheap, is slightly misleading...

---

box should be fine i would think, naff all weight anyway, what rear diff is it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by beaver34
box should be fine i would think, naff all weight anyway, what rear diff is it?

---

If everything goes to plan I am going to try and get the car started tomorrow.

Got much of the to do list done just a few odd things to finish off: running the fuel return line after temp mounting the FPR somewhere out of the way.

This is the current state of things, got the supercharger oil lines in last night and a few other odds tidied up, still need to clip in the hoses though:










Cranked the engine over for the first time tonight, seem to be getting good oil pressure (40psi on cranking) and after puzzling for 10 mins as to why I didnt have a stable cranking signal I remembered that I hadnt adjusted the VR sensor pots in the ECU, now all sorted.

Oncce the fuel lines are finished I can pump fuel around and check for leaks then give it a crank and see what happens.....

Looks excellent, can't wait to see the first start up video posted tomorrow evening

Fingers crossed...

I bet it fires up first time!

wahey, i cant wait for the video! fingers crossed for you!

Good stuff!

Would it be possible to fit a simple (ali?) heatshield below the exhaust manifold? I see you've sleeved a number of hoses (looks like they are the oil supply hoses from the reservoir to the S/C?), but some more heat protection might be usefull. Last thing you want is hot oil meeting a hot manifold. That'd be game over for the car....




Something like a horizontal plate just below the primaries would do.

Looking good!

I better keep this thread up to date with all the latest so its referenced. Not going to repeat anything but...

Engine fired up first time with no major problems other than a very high idle. Some videos etc can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpQ2BYMFO7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T9Cj8Q0EQ

This then led to a week of trying to find out what was causing the high idle. No Vac leaks could be identified anywhere, the whole assembly was removed, checked and reassembled several times with no improvement.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=131856

http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=131973

http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=132212&page=1

I spoke to several knowledgeable people during the week, including several experienced in setting up Roller Barrel throttle bodies and the general consensus was the same - high idle is a common problem with rollers and seems more apparent on some engines than others. Theres not really a fix to it, and its something you just have to live with if you have it.

I made the decision to switch to Jenvey DTH throttle bodies to solve the problem and thankfully it did. It idles much better and I found Raceline to be incredibly helpful and genuinely interested in the project.

Some piccies of the Jenveys


Jenveys 1

And made a set of MAP take offs to fit in the injector ports. Sealed with Hylomar and then clamped in with some fabricated brackets. They have been painted now and are drying overnight before final fitting tomorrow morning.


Jenvey MAP mod 1

look very smart, do like the map take offs

Nearly there...

Fitted up the plenum backplate yesterday. Many thanks to Boggle the rapid turn around on the cutting!

That allowed me to get a bracket made up for the throttle cable which bolts to the back of the plate.

This morning got it all fitted up, albeit temporarily as it has to come off to change the starter as it seems to randomly decide not to engage about 50% of the time Another is on order and will hopefully arrive during the week.


Plenum fitted 1


Plenum fitted 2


Plenum fitted 4

You can see that I am going to have to have a substantial hole in the side of the bonnet now in order to clear the plenum pipework. Nevermind, its a price worth paying to get a smoother running engine.

The other main job for today was making the idler stiffening plate for the 2 small idlers either side of the supercharger. Because they are only on M6 bolts and seemed to flex quite considerably with a bit of force by hand I decided to link them together then bolt them back to the block using the M8 bolt which is between them.

I know the plate is a little overkill on the thickness, but its what was laying around....


Idler stiffening plate 1


Idler stiffening plate 2

Hopefully that will keep it all in check

Final job of the day was to re-attach the front wings. Something I have been putting off for a while.


Getting there

Insurance docs came through today so hoping to get tax sorted next week and get back on the road for next weekend....

Be prepared for the bad weather to ensue!

Last jobs are some tidying up of pipes and cabling. Moving the dump valve to the outlet of the intercooler and blanking off the oulet on the plenum (its too close to the top hose now). Finishing a few odd bits of wiring and putting more P-clips down (though I ran out of cable ties today! Tragic!). I also have to find an airfilter to fit a bit better than the one I currenty have....

Finally, I took another short vid today with it running with everything connected up properly. Forgot to turn wind cut off on the camera though so the sounds all screwed up again....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg3CLG9Z3Dc

Had the same issue on my westie as far as the inlet-bonnet and had to alter the angle 2 times to sorted out..dont worrie if it sticks out a bit,mad max look your set up looks ace!
thats before


[Edited on 28/3/10 by westy turbo]

[Edited on 28/3/10 by westy turbo]

[Edited on 28/3/10 by westy turbo]

[Edited on 28/3/10 by westy turbo]

and thats the after

Yep the intention now is to leave it as is, then later in the year have a bulge made to cover it all up which is stuck on from the inside of the nose/bonnet

David

Dave,
that is awesome, cant believe how it all fits in, minor for the plenum though. I love it, the brace on the idlers looks perfect too, bet our over the moon now

looks fantastic!

What are you using for an injection map?

Injection map is one I made myself, followed the theory on ignition timing which will hopefully get it somewhere close.

Need to get driving it now though so I can get it set up to a reasonable level before the 200mile round trip to Stoneleigh

nice one david.

it runs lovely from the sound.

stuart

Coming on. Got the last of the bits through today.

Replaced the starter as the orginal didnt engage 70% of the time and was annoying. Replaced with a low milage Fiesta ST one and all seems to be good now.

Getting this fitted allowed me to get the plenum all fitted up finally. Its been on and off a few times, but now (hopefully) its on to stay....

The trumpets are very short - around 15mm from the backplate face.


Plenum plate fitted final

After that, the final fitting of the intercooler hoses and dump valve. I have since run the vac line to the valve properly... I had to move the dump valve from the plenum as there is just not enough room to get a pipe on the take off due to the position of the top hose. If I had run it under the chassis at the front it would have been ok.


Final intercooler hoses 1


Final intercooler hoses 2

All runs ok, still need to get warm up enrichments sorted as its a little lean when cold.

Next job is to get the interior panels back as I now have the bolts for the propshaft. Shouldnt take to long to get it all back in order. Top tunnel panel needs modifying for new gearstick position amongst a few other things

lol, just found them as you replied, they do make it look very nice.
you really cant be far away froma drive now surely....

Should be out for a drive this weekend if I can get tax sorted and the weather is reasonable

Another busy day today.

First job was getting the air filter fitted. Piped to the back of the supercharger using aluminium tubes and silicone hose, then mounted on top of the drivers footwell. Planning to put vents in the side of the bonnet anyway, so hopefully will get enough cold air in there.

Still have to wrap the exhaust, which is a job I keep putting off as its a messy job!

Next finished cable tying all the loose cables and pipes behind the scuttle, then modified the firewall and got it refitted.

Had some worrying blue smoke when the engine was running earlier, accompanied with some oil leaking around cyl 4 exhaust port which was rather strange. Been fine ever since though (been running for an hour or so since without a problem). So will have to keep an eye on that...

Seem to have got the cold start nearly sorted too. Flooded the engine when trying to start first thing this morning so it was only running on 2 cylinders. Seems to be much better now.


Nearly finished 1


Nearly finished 2


Nearly finished 3


Filter fitted 3

[Edited on 2/4/10 by flak monkey]

And finally a video with decent sound....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRt-oz8gI04

looking good mate...

that plenium back plate looks nice

Yep, spot on thanks mate

Finished off the bodywork today. Cut lots of card templates then made lots of yellow dust

Pretty happy with the results. Just need to make a box inside the bonnet for the filter and refit the interior and wrap the exhaust now and its ready for a drive


New bonnet fitted 1


New bonnet fitted 3


New bonnet fitted 4


New bonnet fitted 2

Looks really good David!

Looks stunning! Well done mate, you should be chuffed!

that bonnet air holes look cool, i realy do like the 3 angled ones at the back, i would have never of throught about them.

stuart

david where did you get the cutdown number plate?

bonnet mods look great by the way

I am sure most are aware of the minor problems I have been having since getting the car on the road.

The car is now running on Omex engine management rather than Megasquirt as it randomly decided to start playing up last weekend and I have yet to find the problem. It was fired into life for the first time on Omex last night and seems to work reasonably well considering the map is a long way out. The final thing is to re-cover all the wiring again and to change the coolant temp sensor as the standard Duratec one doesnt seem to suit the bias resistors in the Omex ecu very well giving very poor resolution at lower coolant temps.

I have another smaller supercharger pulley on order, 85mm dia which should bring the boost up to just under 15psi (1bar) which is where I had wanted it to be.

The car is then booked in to be set up at ATSpeed Racing on May 17th. Fingers crossed everything will be ok for this session.

Other minor problems are I have a gearbox oil leak from somewhere. I need to pull the covers off the transmission tunnel to try and figure out where it is leaking from. Its a couple of drips per day - I just hope its nothing too serious. But no doubt will require the engine to come out to resolve it in the long term.

Sump leaks are all fixed all bar a very minor weep at the front. If the engine is out at any point then I will weld it up properly.

Other than that - its quick, and still driveable right down to 1500rpm in 5th. It will be very interesting to see what power it makes on the rollers next month!


Front pass 1

looking like a good job David!

Nice work.

Is that plenum a nissan gti r one? Looking into using one on a vauxhall at the mo, look nice and adaptable!

Thanks Nat

Yes it is a nissan GTiR one, actually relatively cheap to pick up as well. Mine cost about £50.

David

Posting sitting at stoneleigh.

Took the car for its first drive since changing to Omex this morning, works suprisingly well considering its a base map. Richened a few sites up a bit and it cruises fine now so all reeady for a rolling road set up from that side of things.

Now i just need to find the source of my gearbox oil leak. There's always something!

gearbox leak, where from? if its the front, between box and bellhousing then it'll be leaking around the selector shaft.

I thought it was leaking from around the sandwich plate/tail housing but it all looks good.

Drips congreate on that area and on the bolts holding the gearbox mount to the chassis. There is now also oil seeping through to the passenger footwell, so its obviously getting flung up from somewhere.

It was rebuilt with all new seals and gaskets which is the most annoying bit about it.

Grrr

Well after removing the tunnel top this morning I think I found the main gearbox leak. Appeared to be leaking around the 5th ear adjuster plate on the side. Even though I had put sealant round it once before. That'll teach me not to use hylomar!

Time will tell, took it for a short run this afternoon and got it hot, so it'll just have to stand now and I'll see if its still leaking.

Had the GTS on the rolling road again today after changing the cams for Raceline 210 spec ones.

Took it to Northampton Motorsport this time and Troy there gets a very good recommendation from me. Very friendly, thorough, and has made an exceptional job of the mapping. The car is now better than it has ever been.

The result was:


01-10-10 dyno result

291.2bhp @6,456rpm and 240.1lbft @6,333rpm at the flywheel. Which translates to 273.3bhp and 226.2lbft at the wheels.

With 190lbft from 4000rpm up its certainly fun in the wet!

Boost dropped from 12psi with standard cams, to 10psi with the mild road cams. So there is scope for more power with more boost if you want to get silly.

David

quote:

---

Originally posted by sebastiaan
Good stuff!

Would it be possible to fit a simple (ali?) heatshield below the exhaust manifold? I see you've sleeved a number of hoses (looks like they are the oil supply hoses from the reservoir to the S/C?), but some more heat protection might be usefull. Last thing you want is hot oil meeting a hot manifold. That'd be game over for the car....




Something like a horizontal plate just below the primaries would do.

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Hi

Have you come across the oil filter problem yet?

Purdy

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey

---

Those were Magnecor wires.

You need the raceline oil filter adaptor as well, or use a remote filter.

Which bell housing does this use?
the one from RWD Motorsport or titan ect?

What about running a sierra cosworth clutch kit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Another busy day today.

Took the crank down to Scholar Engines in near Stowmarket to get the crank keyed. Top job and turned it around in 2 hours for me as well! So I was home just after lunch.


Keyed crank


keyed pulley and gear

Cleaned it all up and fitted to the block. Torqued up the ARP main studs then fitted the conrods to the crank, again with ARP bolts.


Crank and rods refitted

Then fitted the gear to the crank and the oil pump and fitted the modified oil pick up pipe.


Oil pump drive

I also nearly finished modifying the chain cover. The engine mount is redundant and possibly in the way of the belt so I cut it off with the grinder. Still need to tidy it up a bit, then probably paint the cover to tidy it up, though I may not.

This is the std front cover with the fwd engine mount


Std front cover

And this is the same cover with the mount removed


Modded front cover

I will make some bungs for the old bolt holes too as they arent required any more either. Or I could counterbore the holes and fit cap heads. Not really decided yet!

---

love your work and build very entertaining

hi just read your whole thread great work.

i saw at the beginning you said it would be a budget build did you keep track in the end of the overall cost?

ed

Flak no longer visits this forum unfortunately

Just a question why not the miata 6spd they supposedly just bolt up direct to the duratec. I am using a Zetec and was using a t5 and a special bell. just sold everything and bought a RX8 trans and adapter it put me way ahead on budget and build.

Best,

Charles from the USA.

When I did this build the 6 speed, Duratec compatible MX5/Miata transmission wasn't readily available.

It also leans the engine over a few degrees which causes issues, and it's a large case, which causes clearance issues compared to the type 9.

Flak,

Thank you for the reply. On the 6 spd, the reason I went zetec rx8 6 spd was the bell is a lot smaller than the miata and T5. Also the cost is better for me. A couple of things I am considering is dual fuel. Though I am currently running cycle carbs. And by dual fuel one or the other, still looking how to do the swap on the tanks. Although I could do sna
Pin LPG bottles.
Do you have any ideas along those lines. CNG and LPG work way better if the car is stored for any length of time.

How do you like the duratec after running it for several years ?

I have the 2.5 in our transit connect van with the dual clutch std. Pretty snappy.

Thank you for your response,

Charles

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
When I did this build the 6 speed, Duratec compatible MX5/Miata transmission wasn't readily available.

It also leans the engine over a few degrees which causes issues, and it's a large case, which causes clearance issues compared to the type 9.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by goaty

Hey flak.
How are you doing, long time no speak.
Not sure if you remember but I was building my duratec along with yours, unfortunately mine had to be broken to buy a house.
I am now back in a kit though but bike engined.

Good to see your still sharing you knowledge on here

---

I couldn't stay away myself...lol
Got a Bec Indy r right now but just taken a deposit on it and bought another charged Bec. Can't wait to start fiddling again.

Do you still own your duratec car?

No I sold it over 6 years ago. I have my Camaro and bike to keep me busy. But might sell up again soon and start something else. Or just have a break.

quote:

---

Originally posted by goaty
possible, i have just picked my Titan one up but i think iwill be able to squeeze it all in. Tank is the main issue i think.
Luckily the bloke i bought it off works for Caterham developments team and this is the same things he does. Bought an ap friction plate for £40 too. But he said get in touch whenever for help as they just made one and got 330bhp.
So it can fit and shoudl go well
Will be interesting to see how the different builds turn out....cant wait.
all the best

ps, he said that they haven't had any oil pump failures as yet though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
Starters are the same. Some 1.8s still have a dual mass flywheel.

I'll have a look at mine and get the part number off it, if you then go into a ford dealer they will be able to tell you what models it was fitted to exactly.

David

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