Board logo

Stupid me.
emwmarine - 7/2/16 at 04:55 PM

i think i've stripped the flywheel bolt threads in the zetec crank.

Either the bolts I bought were a slightly different thread or slightly too long.

What thread are they meant to be, I will run a tap down them to see if they really are buggered.

What options do I have if I have fubared them? Is it new crank time?

HowardB - 7/2/16 at 05:20 PM

M10 fine?

coozer - 7/2/16 at 05:41 PM

M11 x 1.0mm

http://www.nevlock-performance.co.uk/arp-flywheel-bolts-12.html

Bluemoon - 7/2/16 at 05:42 PM

HeliCoil? not 100% sure that's expectable on the flywheel, but I don't see why not.

coozer - 7/2/16 at 05:55 PM

Bloke near me is selling complete engines with gearbox for £150. Cheaper than trying to fix a crank!

emwmarine - 7/2/16 at 07:00 PM

Problem is, i've done a lot of work on this engine, new bearings, gaskets, cambelt etc etc.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 7/2/16 at 07:06 PM

I wouldn't risk it change the crank you really wouldn't want a flywheel to detach its self .

emwmarine - 7/2/16 at 07:10 PM

Has anyone got a good condition, standard size zetec 2.0 crank???

kingster996 - 7/2/16 at 10:54 PM

If it's a silvertop then yes.

Crank is spot on, but breaking engine as one cylinder burns oil.

Got a head with new valve seals too. Oil pump done less than 250 miles. Cams are sold.

emwmarine - 7/2/16 at 11:17 PM

It's a blacktop. Are the cranks different?

Hornet - 7/2/16 at 11:20 PM

How can you strip all the threads? Surely if you stripped 1 then you would not strip another. What do you mean t he bolts were too long? Just doesn't sound right? I would try a tap down them first, if works then no issue. the next option is to drill and tap larger, I defo wouldn't use helicoils as too dangerous.

kingster996 - 7/2/16 at 11:22 PM

Not sure. The rods and pistons are different, but might use the same crank?

kingster996 - 7/2/16 at 11:29 PM

Quick Google says cranks are the same.

snapper - 8/2/16 at 05:58 AM

The comment above about helicoil
Do not helicoil a flywheel
Not even one thread
Not now, not ever.

MikeRJ - 8/2/16 at 09:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The comment above about helicoil
Do not helicoil a flywheel
Not even one thread
Not now, not ever.


What about a crankshaft? What's the problem with thread inserts, correctly done they are as strong or stronger than the original thread?

emwmarine - 8/2/16 at 10:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Hornet
How can you strip all the threads? Surely if you stripped 1 then you would not strip another. What do you mean t he bolts were too long? Just doesn't sound right? I would try a tap down them first, if works then no issue. the next option is to drill and tap larger, I defo wouldn't use helicoils as too dangerous.


Stupidity, stupidity and yet more stupidity. Bought the flywheel bolts on ebay and they went in but were very stiff. When I removed them it looked like the threads on the bolts had been changed and there was swarf on all the threads.

Charlie_Zetec - 8/2/16 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Hornet
How can you strip all the threads? Surely if you stripped 1 then you would not strip another.


Been there with crank/flywheel bolt issues - got a lightened billet flywheel for my Zetec and had to change to allen bolts rather than the standard bolts. When I followed the Haynes manual torque settings, 3 of the bolts actually stretched/elongated - luckily I didn't damage any threads, but had to buy new bolts and some super locktite for peace of mind.

emwmarine - 8/2/16 at 01:18 PM

I've bitten the bullet and bought a new crate engine from kitspares.

I don't think they have a huge number of them left and think it would add more than the value of the engine to the finished car.

By the time I had got another flywheel, had it balanced, bought new cap bolts , I would have been spending a fair chunk of money anyway.

mcerd1 - 8/2/16 at 01:33 PM

Remember and fit a new cam belt to your 'new' engine

Ford give these a 10 year limit regardless of mileage and they have been known to fail even on zero mileage engines...

You might get away without replacing it, but after all this effort and cash is it worth the risk?

[Edited on 8/2/2016 by mcerd1]

Paul Turner - 8/2/16 at 01:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
Remember and fit a new cam belt to your 'new' engine

Ford give these a 10 year limit regardless of mileage and they have been known to fail even on zero mileage engines...


Correct

All these engines were manufactured in 2004 thus are 12 years old.

emwmarine - 8/2/16 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
Remember and fit a new cam belt to your 'new' engine

Ford give these a 10 year limit regardless of mileage and they have been known to fail even on zero mileage engines...

You might get away without replacing it, but after all this effort and cash is it worth the risk?

[Edited on 8/2/2016 by mcerd1]


Good call. I had just put a new cambelt and pulleys on the engine I junked so I can reuse that new one. I have to take it apart to a degree to put the chopped sump on it anyway.

Hopefully, I can make a few quid back by selling most of the ancillaries on ebay. Exhauast manifold, throttle body, injection stuff etc etc.

Paul Turner - 9/2/16 at 04:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by emwmarine


Good call. I had just put a new cambelt and pulleys on the engine I junked so I can reuse that new one. I have to take it apart to a degree to put the chopped sump on it anyway.



Are you mad. You should never reuse cambelts even if they are nearly new.

The new engine cost you almost £1000 after skimping on parts on the previous one and now you are prepared to do the same again.

Get down to your factors and get a Gates kit that suits your engine code. Once done you are sorted for 10 years.

There's locost and there's stupidity.

Nickp - 9/2/16 at 06:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by emwmarine


Good call. I had just put a new cambelt and pulleys on the engine I junked so I can reuse that new one. I have to take it apart to a degree to put the chopped sump on it anyway.



Are you mad. You should never reuse cambelts even if they are nearly new.

The new engine cost you almost £1000 after skimping on parts on the previous one and now you are prepared to do the same again.

Get down to your factors and get a Gates kit that suits your engine code. Once done you are sorted for 10 years.

There's locost and there's stupidity.


Bit harsh when the engine's never even run. I'm sure his new cambelt will be fine.

mark chandler - 9/2/16 at 07:13 PM

Buy a second hand car you get a used belt etc, his belt has only sat for a year so should be good for 10 years....

emwmarine - 9/2/16 at 09:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by emwmarine


Good call. I had just put a new cambelt and pulleys on the engine I junked so I can reuse that new one. I have to take it apart to a degree to put the chopped sump on it anyway.



Are you mad. You should never reuse cambelts even if they are nearly new.

The new engine cost you almost £1000 after skimping on parts on the previous one and now you are prepared to do the same again.

Get down to your factors and get a Gates kit that suits your engine code. Once done you are sorted for 10 years.

There's locost and there's stupidity.


Bit harsh when the engine's never even run. I'm sure his new cambelt will be fine.


Exactly. Brand new cambelt in my newly (as others have said took me a year to get to here) refurbished then fubared engine. I would have thought that it's fine to just switch over.

coyoteboy - 9/2/16 at 10:49 PM

quote:

The comment above about helicoil
Do not helicoil a flywheel
Not even one thread
Not now, not ever.



I'd have no problem with helicoiling a flywheel/crank. Helicoils are the thread of choice in many very high-end high load aerospace situations and especially where the base material is softer or the fastener will be assembled or disassembled many times. If selected and fitted correctly it's as safe, if not safer, than fasteners into the parent material.

mark chandler - 9/2/16 at 11:05 PM

I,d look at going up a bolt size, drill and tap out, nothing unusual in doing that.

Paul Turner - 10/2/16 at 09:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by emwmarine
Exactly. Brand new cambelt in my newly (as others have said took me a year to get to here) refurbished then fubared engine. I would have thought that it's fine to just switch over.


Not 100% sure but I think I have read some years ago that early Blacktops (Mondeo?) used different length belts to those fitted in the late Focus i.e. the crate engines. Extra idler pulley near the bottom? Worth checking.

mcerd1 - 10/2/16 at 10:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I,d look at going up a bolt size, drill and tap out, nothing unusual in doing that.


That's assuming there is enough edge distance left with the bigger bolts (bigger bolts need proportionally bigger edge distances)

And you'll need to pick a suitable thread form (ie if its a fine thread pitch then you'll probably want a fine pitched larger bolt too, the taps can be expensive for these)

Then you'll need to adjust / recalculate the torque setting to get the same clamping force / prevent the bolts loosening



In alot of situations it wouldn't be that critical, but flywheels are not something I would take a risk with.....

coyoteboy - 10/2/16 at 01:08 PM

Agreed - which is why I'd helicoil it and re-use the same fastener type and torque

mcerd1 - 10/2/16 at 01:26 PM

^^^ but you still need enough 'meat' around the holes to use helicoils

While I'd be happier with them than I would be with oversized bolts in this situation - but ultimately zetec cranks are not that hard to replace or that expensive either so a replacement crank would be my first choice

coyoteboy - 10/2/16 at 05:34 PM

Of course!