gregs
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 08:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
I don't think we have the slightest idea what being out will look like
I have a very deep fear that the general public will vote out just because of the migrant crisis confusing EU free movement with non EU migration due
to the Middle East crisis.
One thing is for sure, if we leave the French will be giving free tickets to migrants and the jungle camp will move to British shores
The next issue will be that British produce will suddenly not be compliant with EU regulations
The list will go on and on
I'm in because I cannot image what out will realy look like
Totally agree - can't figure out what it's going to look like -
But -
One thing that we shouldn't forget is that if we leave the EU (whatever that actually means) we still remain part of various other organisations
UN, G8, NATO and so will still have to be 'globally responsible' and follow a similar (ish) course..... if we take our own route to
achieving it you can guarantee it'll cost us more...
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gregs
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
European made goods?? Every thing, apart from salad, we have has 'made in China' on it..
Sorry just checked, phone and tablet have Korea on them...
Only thing I'm a bit nervous about the exit is moving to Spain, but there are plenty Russians living there who don't get treated any
different.
I'm out, nothing they can say or do will change my mind. Even if Germany invaded we can fight them off again!
This is Great Britian, we have in the past, and can again stand on our own two feet! I wonder what the Queen thinks about it all (even if she is
German)
Easy to forget the benefits of being in - have you thought about Health care when you're in Spain (it's currently provided by the
EU)...
BTW net exports from Europe only 6 billion euros a month.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 08:54 PM |
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" if we take our own route to achieving it you can guarantee it'll cost us more..."
£50,000,000,000 buys a lot of achieving your own, do not forget that people in the Euro zones will still want to purchase from us.
I can clearly remember the year that Spain took the same amount of money out of the EU to pay for its new road network that the UK paid in... Quietest
motorway network you will fine, massively over specified for the requirement but if it's 'free' take take take!
I am moving towards out, they cannot make laws specifically against the UK
[Edited on 23/2/16 by mark chandler]
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Shooter63
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 09:09 PM |
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I loved the spin put out today, the news stated that out of the100 top footsie companies asked wether thay would leave the uk if we left the eu
" over a third said they would leave" instead of " nearly two thirds would stay" this came about as the polsters hoped the out
answer would be 86/100
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gregs
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 09:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
" if we take our own route to achieving it you can guarantee it'll cost us more..."
£50,000,000,000 buys a lot of achieving your own, do not forget that people in the Euro zones will still want to purchase from us.
I can clearly remember the year that Spain took the same amount of money out of the EU to pay for its new road network that the UK paid in... Quietest
motorway network you will fine, massively over specified for the requirement but if it's 'free' take take take!
I am moving towards out, they cannot make laws specifically against the UK
[Edited on 23/2/16 by mark chandler]
Sorry wasn't clear - will cost you and me more, simple economies of scale - if we have a unique requirement (ie not aligned to the rest of the
EU) products will likely cost more to buy.
[Edited on 23/2/16 by gregs]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 09:46 PM |
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^^^^
It costs us a lot to stay in, on balance I would say it would be cheaper to stay out and spend the money on our own infrastructure and
institutions.
If the pound were to devalue then our goods become cheaper/more attractive in Europe, problem is we do not know what will happen, I am just saying to
stay in costs a fortune, £50 billion p.a. is being quoted. You are still paying even if it is through tax
Only 1/3 of footsie 100 answered the poll, most need to have a board meeting before they can put pen to paper or would simply decline to answer.
If they are private companies it's a fair question, if they are answering for the shareholders it's questionable if they should answer at
all with the caveat that they should look to what's best for the companies interest.
The people that wanted out in the poll were the private enterprises in the main, people that started their own companies which to my mind are people
that know how to succeed instinctively,
Another thing that is swaying me is that the UK special concession was not widely reported in the other countries, the French PM just scoffed and said
it was pretty much worthless and would not make any difference which is why he signed in the end. Could just be bravado I suppose?
Still need to be better informed, it is quite convincing either way, safe to stay, a gamble to leave but it could be better? The question is then
would it be worse or the same to chance our arm.
[Edited on 23/2/16 by mark chandler]
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gregs
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 10:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
^^^^
It costs us a lot to stay in, on balance I would say it would be cheaper to stay out and spend the money on our own infrastructure and
institutions.
If the pound were to devalue then our goods become cheaper/more attractive in Europe, problem is we do not know what will happen, I am just saying to
stay in costs a fortune, £50 billion p.a. is being quoted. You are still paying even if it is through tax
Only 1/3 of footsie 100 answered the poll, most need to have a board meeting before they can put pen to paper or would simply decline to answer.
If they are private companies it's a fair question, if they are answering for the shareholders it's questionable if they should answer at
all with the caveat that they should look to what's best for the companies interest.
The people that wanted out in the poll were the private enterprises in the main, people that started their own companies which to my mind are people
that know how to succeed instinctively,
[Edited on 23/2/16 by mark chandler]
Guess there will be loads more facts, figures and opinions that come out over the next 3 months - will be interesting to see how it pans out!
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mark chandler
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 10:12 PM |
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Pinched from another forum but kind of sums up my feelings at the moment
"We started the NHS system. A great idea and able to support the numbers of people that worked. That contributed back into the system to enable
it to work. Then after a period of time more and more people came into our system from all over the world. Some work and contribute into the funding
system. Many do not work but use the NHS, moved into the country and are supported free.The NHS is an excellent idea, but being over used by many that
will never 'put back funding', Just want the service and free. This is why a Fantastic System is struggling.
This reminds me of the EU. When the Common Market was started it was a good idea. As it progressed more and more joined. Many contributed into the EU
fund, but too many are taking out of the EU fund. Too many want to live in EU, but will never put back in the funding to make the system work.
Like any 'club' membership you should always have the choice to pay and remain, or leave. When the benefits are not there or the rules
change. It becomes not what you first bought into. I feel this is happening to the EU now.
It is time to remove the Takers from the EU to keep the people that Put into the System. This way we would not want to walk away"
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Badger_McLetcher
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| posted on 23/2/16 at 10:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Pinched from another forum but kind of sums up my feelings at the moment
"We started the NHS system. A great idea and able to support the numbers of people that worked. That contributed back into the system to enable
it to work. Then after a period of time more and more people came into our system from all over the world. Some work and contribute into the funding
system. Many do not work but use the NHS, moved into the country and are supported free.The NHS is an excellent idea, but being over used by many that
will never 'put back funding', Just want the service and free. This is why a Fantastic System is struggling.
This reminds me of the EU. When the Common Market was started it was a good idea. As it progressed more and more joined. Many contributed into the EU
fund, but too many are taking out of the EU fund. Too many want to live in EU, but will never put back in the funding to make the system work.
Like any 'club' membership you should always have the choice to pay and remain, or leave. When the benefits are not there or the rules
change. It becomes not what you first bought into. I feel this is happening to the EU now.
It is time to remove the Takers from the EU to keep the people that Put into the System. This way we would not want to walk away"
i) The NHS is in trouble because of decades of high level mismanagement and a series of governments which were more interested in increasing the
private stake in it (PFI's are the prime example of this). It really has nothing to do with membership of the EU.
ii) On the whole the majority of people who immigrate from the EU hold down jobs and on the whole contribute to the economy.
iii) On costs and a couple of other things, there's a good article
here
Summarising:
a) Money out - approximately £8.6 billion a year (roughly 0.5% of GDP). With the rebates and money coming back in that drops down to about £6.7
billion.
b) Estimated money back into the economy through membership: between £62 billion and £78 billion per year.
[Edited on 23/2/16 by Badger_McLetcher]
If disfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.
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02GF74
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| posted on 24/2/16 at 06:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I am just saying to stay in costs a fortune, £50 billion p.a. is being quoted. You are still paying even if it is through tax
[Edited on 23/2/16 by mark chandler]
You are assuming that the saving will go into our pockets. ... the way i look at polticians, its more likely to be spent on duck houses.
No idea how i will vote, criteria will be which one will leavr mr with more. Im looking to retire soon so that will matter, sod any philantropy to
the poorer members.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 24/2/16 at 08:49 PM |
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I,m sure whatever happens we will not see any savings, but at least as a country we shall be able to direct who recieves it.
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JoelP
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| posted on 27/2/16 at 07:53 AM |
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I see no reason to leave. To those people complaining aboutexcess rules and regulations coming from Brussels - can you actually specify one that
affects you? To me, harmonising rules across Europe is a good thing. The small amount of money we pay in overall (13m a day net, or about 25p a day
each) is simply wealth redistribution to the poorer states of Europe, which I support too. I also couldn't give a hoot about migration.
What I would say though is that Cameron's deal iswishy washy, it is meant to address the delusions of Daily Heil readers and deals with nothing
that is actually a real problem .
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steve m
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| posted on 26/3/16 at 11:16 AM |
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We must keep this thread alive, and at the top, as it will affect all of us at some point soon
as for me, confused, as im in, and out, and not sure, not that helps at all
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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coozer
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| posted on 26/3/16 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
I see no reason to leave. To those people complaining aboutexcess rules and regulations coming from Brussels - can you actually specify one that
affects you? To me, harmonising rules across Europe is a good thing. The small amount of money we pay in overall (13m a day net, or about 25p a day
each) is simply wealth redistribution to the poorer states of Europe, which I support too. I also couldn't give a hoot about migration.
What I would say though is that Cameron's deal iswishy washy, it is meant to address the delusions of Daily Heil readers and deals with nothing
that is actually a real problem .
As an HGV driver I can point to all sorts if regulations pushed on us with penalty's for not complying.
Eg: Motorway speed limit in the UK for vehicles over 7.5t? 60 mph. However all hgvs are restricted to 90 kph (56 mph) by European law.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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JR
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| posted on 26/3/16 at 01:05 PM |
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I heard that, the biggest market in the world for BMW cars outside Germany itself, is the UK. I also heard that the biggest market in the world for
Renault Sport models is the UK, even bigger than France - the French don't buy many petrols. A while back, the Peugeot 206 was the best selling
privately bought car in the UK, and it was made here as well. And that's without mentioning the immensely successful marketing drive of Nicole
and Papa (Clio), or the unrivalled popularity of the Scenic. Plus, the UK is Europe's biggest market for convertibles (BMW, Porsche, Mercedes,
Audi, Peugeot, VW).
There's no way the French and Germans will put unaffordable tariffs on our British made Japanese cars, or any of our manufactured goods for that
matter, knowing we'd just turn around and bite them right back. WE BUY MORE FROM THEM THAN THEY DO FROM US. The British people are not stupid;
project fear will not work. There would inevitably be some import tariffs, but that will still be less than we currently pay to the EU. If we leave,
we could receive a net gain.
Join the ERM, they said, you can't survive without it. We joined; we nearly went bankrupt. We got out in a hurry and miraculously recovered!
Join the Euro currency, they said, or you'll get left behind. Ireland: bankrupt. Italy, a large manufacturing economy, could have to bailed
out. Meanwhile, Norway and Switzerland, who are neither users of the Euro currency nor part of the EU, are somehow flourishing. How on earth could
that be???
As you can tell, I'm out, and I won't be motivated by fear. Forgive me for going on a bit. I just wanted you to know why.
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ali f27
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| posted on 26/3/16 at 01:31 PM |
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Still have not seen enough to take me one way or the other i have allways felt that for the last 30 years we were never really in everybody talks
about Great Briton. The Great Briton they are talking about would be in there running the show not just sniping and whining on the side lines our
greatest Briton was Churchill he would have been in the front in the middle telling johnny foreigner how its all going to be our politicians cannot
run Briton never mind the EU as well they are a laughing stock in europe .
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