Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
<<  1    2    3    4  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Help / Advice needed - My dog has killed a neighbours dog.
hicost blade

posted on 24/12/09 at 05:32 PM Reply With Quote
I thought so

It’s your neighbour who’s at fault

At least you can have a better Christmas in the knowledge that you should feel no guilt over the situation

It’s a real shame the dog has to go though, I feel for you and wish I could help

I really hope you manage to relax and have a good Christmas

[Edited on 24/12/09 by hicost blade]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
UncleFista

posted on 24/12/09 at 06:13 PM Reply With Quote
Dogs need to know where they are in the pecking order, once they know, they're fine. They can be the softest, friendliest dog in the world.

The problem comes when they find their position in the hierarchy threatened. They will fight and kill to retain it (the most natural thing in the world to a dog).

You'll probably be fine, the dog won't find the baby a threat, but at some point in the future, for whatever reason the dog "might" decide it's position is being threatened by your baby/child.

Small as that chance might be, I wouldn't risk it for a minute





Tony Bond / UncleFista

Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
FFTS

posted on 24/12/09 at 06:39 PM Reply With Quote
I learnt to train dogs from the age of 12 from my ex step dad who was an RAF handler and trainer. I also trained dogs in obedience and manwork (gaurding/attack) for several years for my living. Things to consider and best advise I can give..

A dog IS a wild animal and we suppress their natural instinct which is to live in a pack with a heirachy and to hunt and kill for food or protection of the packs interests. Over many hundreds of years we have tempered this behaviour but it is NEVER got rid of. A dog who has experienced ruling a family member moves up the heirachy and the behaviour is remembered and re-enacted. A dog who has killed also re awakens a natural instinct and moves up in a heirachy. A dog like this should NEVER be trusted around ANY children not just babies. Children are pack that back down, show fear or run away from the top dog which encourages and triggers dominance and hunting/chasing instincts.

As for being put down.. this isnt unavoidable. To be re-homed the dog would need to go to owners with no children at home, who knew of his history and are prepared to control his behaviour through training and always being physically controlled with a lead in public and if showing signs of agression to other dogs then muzzled.

Maybe not the ideal life for a dog but better than dead hey!!





Chris.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
scootz

posted on 24/12/09 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote
I normally defer to anyone who has a professional background in something I don't, but in this case I have to take issue with a couple of points.

A domestic dog is not by definition a "wild" animal. This is an important distinction as the long-standing (and largely disputed) pack / hierarchical beliefs are based on studies of the behavior of wolves living in their natural habitat. Experts now question the relevance of these studies... many believing it has no standing whatsoever in the case of the domesticated dog.

As for the suggestion that, "a dog who has killed also re-awakens a natural instinct and moves up in a heirachy. A dog like this should NEVER be trusted around ANY children, not just babies". This may apply if said dog has killed a member of the 'pack' (again, it's not proven), but has little relevance if it has killed another small furry animal! Every dog I've ever had has killed things - none (so far... touch wood) has ever shown a hint of aggression at myself or a family member.





It's Evolution Baby!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
FFTS

posted on 24/12/09 at 07:51 PM Reply With Quote
I can only talk about my own observations of dogs behaviours over many years (I'm 51 now )

Watch the dog whisperer chap and see the pack behaviour. The distinctions for a dog are not if it is fury and has four legs, we have domesticated them for many many years.. where do you think dogs came from before we domesticated them if not the wild?

I agree that not EVERY dog will learn from a particular behaviour but certain dogs and certain breeds will. Every now and again we see a child mauled or killed but I guess this doesnt matter as its very rare

Thats the end of my input as this was just another oppinion for Steve to consider as is yours. I'm sure they are both welcome





Chris.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jeffw

posted on 24/12/09 at 08:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
err, with me saying that there was no blood on either dog, I'd be pretty sure that even if it were play fighting that went wrong, or fighting that went wrong - for you to say that my dog ripped the throat out of the westie would be a bit far fetched and scaremongering???

ps - my above post is written in reference to witnesses of the accident.
pps - I am not excusing my dog. Two dogs had a fight and one dog is dead, hence my dog killed the other dog.



I wasn't suggesting your dog ripped the throat out of the Westie....quite the opposite. As you say if there is no blood it wasn't much of a fight.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Ninehigh

posted on 24/12/09 at 08:50 PM Reply With Quote
True it sounds to me like they were having a little pop at each other and the Westie happened to drop dead. There might be a case here for carry on as normal cos it's not like your dog purposely killed...

Like you giving your mate in the pub a dig in the ribs and he trips over and knocks himself out, and then everyone drags you away before you figure out what happened, your dog might have been confused at his new playmate falling over. No "taste for killing" there






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
afj

posted on 24/12/09 at 09:13 PM Reply With Quote
steve if you do put the dog in a run/ kennel be vary carefull the next morning when you go in to feed/walk him, we had a slightly unruley german shepard, that we decided to home in a run, problem was he decided it was HIS and no one elses, so when my dad walked in to feed him the dog took him down police dog style and bit him so hard that he broke my dads arm, a police dog handler had to come and remove the dog from my dads arm with one of those noose things, that dog was 3rd or 4th hand





eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
mr henderson

posted on 24/12/09 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
Every time there is a thread about a dog being involved in something like this you someone will come up with something along the lines of-

"there are no bad dogs, only bad owners"

but if they were to think about it, they might realise that that statement doesn't stand up to any logical examination. Of course there are bad dogs, just as there are examples of bad behaviour in all animals with brains big enough to exhibit some kind of variation from others of their species.

I have no idea whether the dog in question is a 'bad dog' or not, and I have no opinion on what should happen to it now, especially after reading the later posts. But the idea that it's only ever the owner's fault if a dog attacks another animal or a human is daft.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Steve Hignett

posted on 24/12/09 at 10:26 PM Reply With Quote
Responding to just last post because of where I am n this night etc


I wanted to.criticise that specific post,but felt I should be more subservient because it is MY dog that is responsible, but I am trying to think about my immediate family and (more importantly right now) the family of my parents neighbours... they have been in touch with mum n dad and have offered more details about how their dog bit my dogs nose before my dog responded.

Having said that I also feel very responsible because several months ago, I chipped my dogs incisor (sp) n that made it sharp n that will hav at least scratched the other dog...

Also in response to the last post; I knew I was allowing myself to be judged by a lot of people not-privy to the whole facts, but that's theprice to pay....






View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
mr henderson

posted on 24/12/09 at 10:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett


Also in response to the last post; I knew I was allowing myself to be judged by a lot of people not-privy to the whole facts, but that's theprice to pay....


I assume you are referring to my post, as that is the last one before your's that I'm quoting here. There is nowhere in that post in which I am judging you. Read it again. I'm not talking about you at all. Where did you think I was? In fact, I went to extra trouble in writing it to make that absolutely clear. Not clear enough, apparently.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Steve Hignett

posted on 24/12/09 at 11:37 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett


Also in response to the last post; I knew I was allowing myself to be judged by a lot of people not-privy to the whole facts, but that's theprice to pay....


I assume you are referring to my post, as that is the last one before your's that I'm quoting here. There is nowhere in that post in which I am judging you. Read it again. I'm not talking about you at all. Where did you think I was? In fact, I went to extra trouble in writing it to make that absolutely clear. Not clear enough, apparently.


I'm sorry, but your pre-conceptions of me, are ruling your heart here John, I was trying to use your common sense approach and to take your support of the situation against you is mis-guided...

I was trying to use your post in it's realistic response to be AGAINST other people that have not responded in a realistic way...

As always, ATB
Steve






View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Steve Hignett

posted on 24/12/09 at 11:53 PM Reply With Quote
Once again, sorry, but I've had a couple of drinks tonight, and neither my response to your post or my reply makes pefrect sense to even me right now!

No idea how to say this when it's on a post that I care so much about, but Mr Henderson's reply was in my favour and I was in agreement to that entirely...

Enough said for now..............






View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
mr henderson

posted on 25/12/09 at 07:42 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett


Enough said for now..............


Indeed, muisunderstandings can happen to anyone, anytime. Christmas is a good time for putting such things right.

I hope you can find a suitable new home for your dog, especially as it is would now seem that the other dog had health problems and that it wasn't so much killed as died as a result of being involved in a fight.

That didn't really come out in the earlier pages of this thread, which is what maybe caused some posters to take a much stricter line.






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 25/12/09 at 10:46 AM Reply With Quote
Have to say I agree with Mr Henderson about on at least some of his points. I knew a couple that had 2 GSD on of which was a big puppy the other was a killing machine , both dogs had been owned since puppies by the same people and treated exactly the same. Hope everything gets sorted out OK Steve , I know how you feel .
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
bigpig

posted on 26/12/09 at 01:24 PM Reply With Quote
When it comes to bad owners vs bad dogs, I remember the Simpsons episode with the elephant head butting the other elephants. Marge asked why it was doing it and the keeper said something along the lines of "just like humands sometimes animals are jerks".

The problem with bad owners is training their dogs to be agressive or not taking appropriate measures with a dog (e.g. the basked muzzle for "snaffle hounds" who eat anything lying on the pavement then get the squits the following day.

Just like humans, some animals can be total knobs.

Speaking again with SWMBO about the whole thing, was either dog bloddied after the attack to any major degree? As someone else said, it may be just that they had a go at each other and the westie keeled over with a dodgy heart if it was old.

[Edited on 26/12/09 by bigpig]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
prawnabie

posted on 26/12/09 at 01:45 PM Reply With Quote
Steve

I have a friend who works at the Blue cross down here in Bromsgrove. If you need any questions answered whilst trying to come to a decison drop us a U2U and I will ask her.

Cheers

Shaun

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
T66

posted on 27/12/09 at 12:14 AM Reply With Quote
First of all....

NO dog ever gets trusted with children EVER.

Animals dont speak, and we only think we know what they are thinking.

However a dog who has killed another dog may not necessarily be bad with family/children.

Clearly your dog doesnt tolerate some dogs, for me this is something you can try and train out of it by socialising it, you all work at training your dog to tolerate other dogs, ie agility classes are excellent for socialising.

I know of a friend with a very similar dog to yours who was very ratty and anti social, after 6 months agility work he is totally settled.

When children are involved, the dog must understand fully who is boss, with my dogs the pecking order used to be me,wife then all three kids.

You can reinforce this by supervising children feeding the dog on a rotation basis, getting them to do basic commands then feed him. After 30 seconds of him eating , get the child to take the food off him. Mine used to scare my wife eating, but was ok with the kids , I used to get her to do it and he stopped being ratty otherwise he didnt get fed !

Dont jump the gun yet, but keep a very close eye on him and if you want him to fit in with family life consider dog classes/agility, if he doesnt fit in there then he has to move on...


good luck






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Mr G

posted on 17/1/10 at 05:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
i blame you sorry to say the owner for not training it ,socialising it ect i see it too aften


quote:
Originally posted by thunderace
if you socialised it when it was a pup it would not attact other dogs .
YOU DONT GET BAD DOG JUST BAD OWNERS


He told everyone in post #10 that they are the third owners, which by that time i'm assuming it's no longer a 'pup' still openly receptive to your Barbara Woodhouse skills

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
We are his THIRD owners and so even though he will obey my commands, he isn't very good with my wife and parents don't tell him the same way I do.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
dhutch

posted on 27/8/10 at 07:55 PM Reply With Quote
Thats a bit of a epic thread resurrection there!

Actually the first time i had read the thread but while we're here, whats the update on this?

Ive met the dog in question while at steves and have to say that while it was a fairly lively specimen it was not out character for a dog of its age or size and didnt appear aggressive to me.

I've grew up with a great dane that was tall than me most of life and then a number of dogs since as have most of the rest of my extened family and i have to say I dont really buy either the 'theres no bad god, just bad owners' or the 'thats clearly mainly jack rusell so you can trust it' schools of thought. Life isnt cut and dried like that. Theres also clearly a huge, gab between ripping a another dog apart in cold blood, and going up to an ageing rather energetically and causing it a heart attack and a massive scale between the two. Our last dog, a terrier/greyhouse/airedale cross mongrel type thing was as soft as a brush, but she killed a handful baby rabbits every spring, just by 'playing with ' (chasing) them until they overheated. All that said, i can really see that with a young child around, you would want to be 100% sure, and sad though it is to let go of a friend, sometimes its has to happen.


Daniel

[Edited on 27/8/2010 by dhutch]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
McLannahan

posted on 27/8/10 at 08:26 PM Reply With Quote
Dan - U2 sent. Sorry, think I called you Steve on the U2 too!

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
dhutch

posted on 27/8/10 at 10:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
Dan - U2 sent. Sorry, think I called you Steve on the U2 too!
Yeah you did, but whatever. PM received, thankyou.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
<<  1    2    3    4  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.