kipper
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 10:47 AM |
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drunk in charge?
A friend of mine who is a heavy goods driver was away from base and slept in the sleeper cab of his truck after a visit to a pub for a meal and a
couple of beers.
At one AM a policeman awoke him to move his truck to allow another truck to better fit in the layby he was parked in, smelt his breath and asked if he
had been drinking, breathalised him and arrested him for drunk in charge.
Question?if this is right can you get charged for drunk in charge if you are sleeping in a vehicle ,,,say a campervan or even a car after a few
drinks.
Denis.
Where did that go?
<<<<
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MikeFellows
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 10:52 AM |
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seems awefully unfair.
friend of mine got 6 points and banned from driving when we where kids for pushing a moped down the road that didnt work.
banned for no licence or insurance - total joke
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:04 AM |
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I believe you only need the keys in your pocket these days to be "in charge" of a vehicle. Like much of our policing it sounds absurdly
unfair but I doubt he will have a defense in court especially as he was in a layby and could have driven at any time. Obviously we need more policing
like this to keep us all safe! 
Edited to say
I do not condone drinking and driving and I would take your keys away from you rather than let you do it either, even if you protested.
[Edited on 9/3/11 by Strontium Dog]
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jossey
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:10 AM |
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If you have no intention to drive and its not made easy to drive while under the influence then he should be ok.
Lorry drivers will sometimes leave the keys elsewhere to ensure they are not charged with being drunk in charge.
its difficult cos you are drunk in charge so moving the keys out of reach into the trailer etc protects you a little better.
This site helps give advise from x officers and legal people.
http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?/topic/22815-drunk-whilst-in-charge-of-a-motor-vehicle/
cheers
dave
Thanks
David Johnson
Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.
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rayward
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:15 AM |
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I'm afraid that is the case, point being he was the only one there who was able to move the vehicle when asked to do so by the police, so he is
therefore in charge of the vehicle regardless of whether the keys were in his pocket or in the trailer.
second thought would be, if he only had "a couple of beers" would he be over the legal limit at 1am ?,if he had drank more, would he have
been legal to drive the next morning anyway ?
Ray
[Edited on 9/3/11 by rayward]
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:18 AM |
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As said above this is right if you have the keys and inside the vehicle there is nothing stopping you driving
its stupid but thats the law and for a good reason too
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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edsco
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:38 AM |
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In my opinion, if you are a professional driver, i think consuming alcohol during a working week is not really a good idea. Even though you can
handle your drink extremely well, you just don't know how your body will handle it the next day.
Don't get me wrong, i am all up for having a drink etc esp if i am off duty, but a professional driver who has to spend the night in his vehicle
i feel should do everything in his power to ensure that they are 100% fit for driving the next day.
Being arrested for being under the influence in charge of commercial goods vehicle, but fast asleep does seem a little harsh. The question is...did
he say to he officer, no he could not do it as he had a drink, or did he do it then got arrested?
The drivers tacho should clearly show when he last drove the vehicle anyway as proof he wasn't drunk in charge.....
edsco
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JoelP
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:38 AM |
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its nonsense; where do you draw the line? I have my keys with me now inside my house, so im still techincally in charge of the vehicle. I could go out
and drive it at a whim.
I think this concept of drunk in charge has probably stemmed from a prosecution test case, whereby the jury or magistrates didnt believe someone wasnt
intending to drive, and it has now become the case that anyone with keys approaching a vehicle is committing an offense, when that often isnt the
case.
Ie, you cannot get pissed at home and then go out to your car for a cd, in case you have a brainwave and decide to drive. Technically, you'd
have to get someone else to unlock it (they must be sober though; if you're all pissed, you simply cannot listen to that cd...).
What a polava.
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Macbeast
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:45 AM |
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Drunk in charge and driving with excess alcohol are two different offenses. There is a limit for driving with excess alcohol which is tested by
breathalyser but I wonder if the same limit applies to Drunk in Charge. Similarly, are the penalties the same ( at least 1 year mandatory
disqualification for driving with excess but is it the same for DIC ? ) Your friend needs to engage a lawyer.
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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Macbeast
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 11:54 AM |
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This decision may have been overturned since, but...
Yesterday ( 2003 ) the Court of Appeal ruled that a driver who was asleep in his van while above the legal driving limit should have his conviction
quashed. Peter Sheldrake admitted being over the limit but said he had no intention of driving. Under Section 5 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act it was up
to Mr Sheldrake to prove there was no likelihood of him driving his van.
But yesterday the Court of Appeal said that was too high a burden of proof to impose on a defendant. The judges, in a 2-1 decision, ruled the road
traffic laws which led to Mr Sheldrake's conviction were "disproportionate" and "violated the presumption of innocence"
to which he was entitled under the European Convention on Human Rights. The appeal was allowed by Lord Justice Clarke and Mr Justice Jack, with Mr
Justice Henriques dissenting
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 12:07 PM |
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It is a nonsense when this occurs. Countless times I've been camping, sat next to my car with the keys in the ignition to charge something,
while having a few beers. I've no intention of driving it, but I could still get done. But this is why I'd not do it on a public
layby/road - that would be asking for trouble. If my license were vital for my job I'd not be going anywhere near alcohol while near a vehicle.
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twybrow
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 12:28 PM |
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I have had a similar experience in the past, and we took the steps to confirm the rules with the police. They insisted we put a steering lock on the
vehicle, and hand the key to that lock to a 3rd party who wasnt going to be in the vicinity. Bloody crazy rules, but then again, they have to find a
way of stopping drink drivers. sorry to your mate, but I agree above - he is a professional driver, so should be aware of this type of issue and
behave accordingly....
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steve m
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 12:28 PM |
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We had a similar problem at Silverstone last year, I drove the 4 of us up there, and we camped in the car park, along with about 20 others not
connected to us, as my friend has done every year. (i had never been before)
The Police drove round and informed us we were on private ground and had to move, we had all had a couple of beers, so i declined saying exactley
that, and although i was ok to drive round the field, was not prepared to drive on the road to access the proper campsite, as we had been drinking,
The police said that was fine, and the land owner would take out legal proceedings to have us removed, (that never happened!!
Strange thing is, that we had been in the same spot camping for 3 days, but had decamped every day, and this only happened on saturday night before
race day
Steve
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bi22le
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 12:31 PM |
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This thing makes my blood boil.
They should allow charecter \ personality tests for this sort of thing. Mind you the officer may of done this at the time and decided he may of
driven the vehicle.
Still I would love to shake the hand of this officer and congratualte him for wasting his time and exciting hate for our government.
I read yesterday the government are cutting police pay and bonuses. Im over the moon about this.
Police dont do enough at the moment to prevent actual problematic crime and are proven too many times to be poor at their job. The crime rate is not
linked to the number of officers or their pay so put them back in their place to do some real work and stop pushing paper or taking the easy route.
Wow I did not expect me to rant so much,
Soz!!!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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Strontium Dog
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
This thing makes my blood boil.
They should allow charecter personality tests for this sort of thing. Mind you the officer may of done this at the time and decided he may of driven
the vehicle.
Still I would love to shake the hand of this officer and congratualte him for wasting his time and exciting hate for our government.
I read yesterday the government are cutting police pay and bonuses. Im over the moon about this.
Police dont do enough at the moment to prevent actual problematic crime and are proven too many times to be poor at their job. The crime rate is not
linked to the number of officers or their pay so put them back in their place to do some real work and stop pushing paper or taking the easy route.
Wow I did not expect me to rant so much,
Soz!!!
Right on!
I had twelve, yes twelve officers in my house a few months ago busting me for smoking a spliff or two. When my ZXR750 was nicked in broad daylight
from outside my front door they didn't even bother to turn up! I live in a rural area and do no one any harm and it is quite obvious to me that
the police are interested in soft targets and don't want to bother with real crime. There might be more respect for them if they stopped
bothering people like me and went after the fat cat tax dodgers that are helping to cripple our economy or some of the real criminals that just do
what they want regardless of the consequences to other individuals.
This is based on my experiences where I live and it mat well be different in other regions of course!
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Peteff
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 01:16 PM |
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They didn't come to ours when our Clio was stolen a few years ago and just last week I rang at 02.30 about a couple (youth and girl) fighting
outside in the street causing a right ruckus and they said they'd already been notified but still never turned up to do anything about it. If
I'd gone out there with a bat to sort them out I would be lucky enough to get locked up in short order. I would expect anyone drinking in any
vehicle to be subject to the same as your friend if on a public highway as he is still technically in charge of the vehicle. If you were in a camper
van or a car and parked off road it would probably be more defensible.
[Edited on 9/3/11 by Peteff]
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Moorron
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 01:53 PM |
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ive thought of this before and sort of knew it happened. What would happen if you witnessed a car crash, if you get out and phone 999 you could get
charged as youre now using a phone while been incharge of a car (keys in hand/pocket. If you leave the keys in the car you are risking having youre
insurance not pay out so technically you cant do anything but just sit there and wait for a police officer to tell you that its ok to leave the scene
of an incident that has been called by a pedestrian or passenger.
Typical british law, you doomed if you do anything so its best to do nothing (and get slatted in the press for doing nothing) 
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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twybrow
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 02:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Moorron
ive thought of this before and sort of knew it happened. What would happen if you witnessed a car crash, if you get out and phone 999 you could get
charged as youre now using a phone while been incharge of a car (keys in hand/pocket. If you leave the keys in the car you are risking having youre
insurance not pay out so technically you cant do anything but just sit there and wait for a police officer to tell you that its ok to leave the scene
of an incident that has been called by a pedestrian or passenger.
Typical british law, you doomed if you do anything so its best to do nothing (and get slatted in the press for doing nothing)
I think your example is a bit off topic, and only really there to promote a reaction... and in actual case, the law considered this:
"Are there any exemptions?
If you are in a genuine emergency situation and it would be unsafe for you to stop, there is an exemption in place that allows motorists to call the
emergency services on 999 or 112 while driving."
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austin man
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 02:22 PM |
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could he not challenge this based upon his tacho this would show the last time the vehicle was moved and whether he had driven whilst intoxicated , I
appreciate the charge is based upon him being in charge of the vehicle.
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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blakep82
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by austin man
could he not challenge this based upon his tacho this would show the last time the vehicle was moved and whether he had driven whilst intoxicated , I
appreciate the charge is based upon him being in charge of the vehicle.
but its based on the INTENTION of driving, the tacho won't show that he wasn't goin to drive it at 01.30, but was spoken to at 01.15, you
see?
i know its rediculous though, its something he can't prove, so he has to bend over for it. really not fair, but as a professional driver, he
should know what he should and shouldn't do where and when.
i know that if i'm drunk, i do not sit in the driver seat of my car with the keys. i even had a quick look about last week to make sure there
was no police or anything before even getting some stuff out my car before getting the taxi home and leaving the car at my mates, i even used the
passenger door to be double sure, and i was completely f*cked!
your mate knows the score, hes in the wrong as far as i'm concerned, but i would agree with being a bit annoyed about it if it was someone who
was unaware of the rules behind it. a weird thing to say i know.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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smart51
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:36 PM |
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Surely if the guy was asleep and had to be woken up by the police, it shows that his intention was not to drive.
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Alfa145
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:43 PM |
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What happened to Innocent until proven guilty. Shouldn't there be some proof he intented to drive?
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jake_truck
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:43 PM |
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As professional driver myself, my opinion is that its a bit different when you are in a sleeper cab.
That is considered not only your place of work, but your place of residence when you are awy from home.
This sort of question comes along often, mainly regarding tv licences and smoking.
You are not allowed by law to smoke in a company owned van, I believe. But if it is a sleeper cab, and you are living in it while working away from
home, you can smoke.
I have never known, in 15 years of driving artics, anybody prosecuted for that offence. The copper is more at fault for waking the bloke up and
interupting his legally required daily rest period.
It can't be the drivers responsibility to prove he isn't going to drive until he legally can, otherwise 99% of long distance truck drivers
would be in prison now.
What is the case, as someone pointed out, if you are holidaying with a touring caravan or a motorhome?
John
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A1
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:49 PM |
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surely the cop who woke him up and told him to drive essentially put him in charge of the vehicle? good point on the hours of rest too. if he gets
done its ridiculous, whatever happened to cops actually assessing a situation and making a decision based on it? clearly he wasnt driving so he wasnt
posing any threat to anyone.
good luck to him
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jake_truck
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| posted on 9/3/11 at 03:52 PM |
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A police officer can ask you to move even if it breaks drivers hours or working time directive regulations, but he has to sign a tacho disc or
digicard printout with reason and his police number. Again, after 15 years it's never happened to me or anyone I can think of.
To add, the officer must have a valid reason and if the driver considers it unsafe to move, can refuse. AFAIK of course!
[Edited on 9/3/11 by jake_truck]
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