jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 03:57 PM |
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Zetec rough running
Chaps I'll try to keep this short:
Zetec with webcon alpha and 45 webers:
Cambelt changed about 50 miles ago (It was running well after this although looking back it may have been v slightly more smokey but I put this down
to not been driven v much)
Fuel filter and hose changed (as part of a tidy up)
Car wasn't running well after me tidying up some stuff and it not been driven for a few weeks/month)
Sparkplugs black (which I thought was due to overpressure) so installed a fuel king regulator set at 3.5 psi. No Change.
Car was running on 3 cylinders which I thought was down to a spark plug. Changed plug and then it was back to 4 but still not happy.
It takes a while to start and dies a few times before running and warming up.
Once warm it will idle.
It hesitates most of the time.
Spark plugs are blacking up but look a bit cleaner near the spark than the other day.
Emissions look blackish when revved and maybe some white/grey.
Open to the floor. What is going on?
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jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 03:57 PM |
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Video of exhaust
http://vid292.photobucket.com/albums/mm7/Crowner51/IMG_5553_zpsszju9mzq.mp4
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 04:18 PM |
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Might be worth checking the timing looks like it's running rich carbs may need tweeking lastly before do check these things it maybe worth
dropping your fuel pressure as I run my carbs at 2.5 psi ?
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jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 04:35 PM |
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I think checking the timing is a good shout (but strange that it ran ok just after cambelt change?)
I doubt its the fuel pressure. It didn't even have a regulator before and my pump is rated between 4 and 7 psi and it ran no problems.
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 04:51 PM |
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Carbs need cleaning and rebalancing maybe
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obfripper
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 05:24 PM |
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I would say that you are getting incomplete combustion, possibly from coil/leads/plugs breaking down, giving weak spark.
If you can, start the engine while it is dark and look for any sparks tracking away from the coil pack towers.
If it is arcing, thorughly clean the towers and dust boots affected, and use a light coat of silicone grease to assemble.
If this temporarily fixes it, replace the coil pack and leads with original quality ones.
Check the bottom of the coilpack for cracks and black tracking/arcing marks in the potting compound, they do fail, with initially intermittent
symptoms.
Check your old plugs for signs of spark tracking down the porcelain, it will etch grooves in the porcelain thst you can feel with a fingernail, again
silicone grease will provide a temporary fix.
Dave
[Edited on 21/3/15 by obfripper]
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jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 05:33 PM |
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Gents,
Thanks so much for your suggestions. I am loosing the will a bit on this one.
I was just chatting this over with a friend on the phone and we went down the line of incomplete combustion and weak spark.
The other day when i was looking at the plugs for spark I couldn't see the spark but my friend assured me he could hear it. Surely I should be
able to see the spark? It was day light.
I am having some interesting electrical issues (when I press the brakes, the side lights come on.
I'm think maybe a have a bad earth somewhere which could be affecting the lights and spark somehow?!
argghhh. My hands are fricking freezing!
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jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 06:30 PM |
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I'll look into the coil pack etc and report back.
What about a weak battery?
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jimk2
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 06:58 PM |
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I've just checked all of the rear tail/brake light bulbs (I have four lucas lights on the back. all 4 are tail/brake lights combined) and they
are all dual filament.
However. Whenever the tail lights or brake lights are on, both filaments light up brightly.
When the brakes are applied the sidelights come on. When I turn the sidelights on and press the brake the ignition switches on.
I can't 100% guarantee this wasn't the case before my issue but I doubt it.
Bad earth somewhere?
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obfripper
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| posted on 21/3/15 at 08:45 PM |
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Sounds fun!
You need to check your lighting earths, as it is backfeeding up the sidelamp circuit.
There may be issue with how your sidelights are wired as well, the sidelamps should be from a permenent live source, your's appears to be on an
ignition switched live to allow the ignition circuit to be backfed.(this should not have an effect when the ignition is on )
A poor earth on the lighting circuit only should have no effect voltage wise when the ignition is actually turned on, but if the earth from the
battery is poor it can affect multiple circuits.
If the battery is fully charged, you should see 12.6v across the terminals, if it cranks ok but with a low voltage you may have a dead cell(2V per
cell).
If it is sluggish to turn but the voltage is good, the battery may be sulphated giving a reduced Ah capacity.
You can check the coil supply voltage from the centre pin of the coil plug, it should be very close to battery voltage with ignition on.
If you pop the meter between the engine and -ve battery terminal while the ignition is on, you should see less than 0.1v, any more would indicate a
poor earth to the block.
You should be able to see the spark when cranking with a test plug, it should be a pretty strong blue-white flash, far stronger than a moped/chainsaw
spark & the same on all 4 plugs.(ideally testing all 4 at once with all plugs grounded to earth)
I would concentrate more on the spark/running issues to start with.
Dave
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 07:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jimk2
I've just checked all of the rear tail/brake light bulbs (I have four lucas lights on the back. all 4 are tail/brake lights combined) and they
are all dual filament.
However. Whenever the tail lights or brake lights are on, both filaments light up brightly.
When the brakes are applied the sidelights come on. When I turn the sidelights on and press the brake the ignition switches on.
I can't 100% guarantee this wasn't the case before my issue but I doubt it.
Bad earth somewhere?
I don't want to be contrary but before checking your poor running/fuelling, check your electrics - you could have all sorts of ignition-related
issues if there is an electrical problem.
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 08:25 AM |
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Zetec coil packs and HT leads are a well known problem , would be my first thing to check . As for the rear light problem it sounds like you have
possibly got a bulb making contact to both connections when only one should be live, normally happens when someone has put in an incorrect bulb ,a 382
instead of a 380. It could be a faulty earth , try removing one bulb at a time and see which one causes the problem . Another cause could be a short
between the 2 circuits. As the brake lights are ignition fed normally that would explain why the ignition light comes on when the sidelights are on.
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jimk2
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 09:49 AM |
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Gents,
I am so appreciative on your inputs.
Mr nasty viper, I reseated all of the bulbs. The last one, number 4 cured my lighting issue.
Now to tackle the main problem.
Thanks v much.
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jimk2
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 10:45 AM |
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Fuel tank now properly earthed. Had the drill and wire brush out. Bolt and washers (tank to chassis) now have good contact with metal on both.
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jimk2
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 11:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by obfripper
Sounds fun!
You need to check your lighting earths, as it is backfeeding up the sidelamp circuit.
There may be issue with how your sidelights are wired as well, the sidelamps should be from a permenent live source, your's appears to be on an
ignition switched live to allow the ignition circuit to be backfed.(this should not have an effect when the ignition is on )
A poor earth on the lighting circuit only should have no effect voltage wise when the ignition is actually turned on, but if the earth from the
battery is poor it can affect multiple circuits.
If the battery is fully charged, you should see 12.6v across the terminals, if it cranks ok but with a low voltage you may have a dead cell(2V per
cell).
If it is sluggish to turn but the voltage is good, the battery may be sulphated giving a reduced Ah capacity.
You can check the coil supply voltage from the centre pin of the coil plug, it should be very close to battery voltage with ignition on.
If you pop the meter between the engine and -ve battery terminal while the ignition is on, you should see less than 0.1v, any more would indicate a
poor earth to the block.
You should be able to see the spark when cranking with a test plug, it should be a pretty strong blue-white flash, far stronger than a moped/chainsaw
spark & the same on all 4 plugs.(ideally testing all 4 at once with all plugs grounded to earth)
I would concentrate more on the spark/running issues to start with.
Dave
Dave / chaps,
My trickle charger says the battery is ok, however the multimeter showed 12.2 first time I checked.
I then checked the centre pin going into the coil, it showed about 0.1 v less than the battery but it was ticking down 0.01 about every 2 seconds,
i.e
12.30, 12.29, 12.28 etc.
When checking between engine and block the most I could get was 0.01 volts so I don't think there is a problem with the earth on the block.
Dave - by test plug do you mean some of these?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-ht-lead-ignition-spark-plug-testers-pack-of-4/61411?kpid=61411&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20T
racking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&kpid=61411&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Car%20and%20Van-_-Shopping%20-%20Car%20and%20Van&gclid=CLPZqr_q
u8QCFaTnwgodi4cAFg
I would say the car is sluggish to turn. The other day I jumped it from another car and it cranked a lot better.
Do you think this could all be because of a dud battery?
[Edited on 22/3/15 by jimk2]
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obfripper
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 01:21 PM |
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12.2 is low, but should be acceptable for a partially discharged battery, the sluggish cranking maybe due to this, but is unlikely to affect the coil
operation.
Fully charging the battery is likely to improve the cranking though.
I was more meaning to use the plugs removed from the vehicle, earthed properly while cranking.
They should spark in pairs with equal strength.
Those inline testers would be tricky to use, as i dont think they would be visible when fitted to the plug.
Your coil supply sounds fine, and i dont think you have any issue with grounding to the block.
The only other thing that could affect the coil operation is the earthing for your ignition ecu, i dont know what the webcon system uses, i would
assume 1 earth to the block for the coil circuit, and 1 earth to the chassis for the control unit electronics.
Checking both as a precaution would be a good idea.
Dave
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jimk2
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 04:41 PM |
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Dave / chaps,
I am yet to check the earths (as I need to do a bit of research)
New battery installed......no it won't even catch! Wet plugs and zero spark.
I'm thinking coil.
How do I check it? Or should I just buy a new one?
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obfripper
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 05:46 PM |
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You can check the primary circuit using pin 2 of the coil multiplug to pin 1 and pin 3, it should be 0.4-0.6 ohm on both circuits.
There are no specified values for the secondary circuit, however if there is any measureable resistance from the coil towers to earth with the coil
bolted in place and multiplug disconnected, it will indicate an internal failure of the coil, an ordinary multimeter will not pick up all paths to
earth though.
If you are replacing the coil, make sure it is a good quality (bosch, delphi, genuine ford etc) as the white box cheapies and some of the 'oem
equivalent' tend to either not work at all, or fail within a few months.
I would say to also check over your webcon ecu & make sure it has no faults in the power supplied to it, the crank sensor & wiring is
undamaged, and if you have pc software to connect to it, that it is responding ok and showing cranking data when cranked.
Dave
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 06:43 PM |
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Put your location in your profile, someone near to you may be able to lend you a coil and leads
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jimk2
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| posted on 22/3/15 at 07:57 PM |
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New bosch ignition coil should be on its way to me shortly.
I'll double check my earths when I get chance.
Hoping this cures it. My old coil looks like it could be the original one so here's hoping that's the problem.
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DW100
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| posted on 23/3/15 at 10:52 AM |
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Do all the plugs look the same? It is unusual for the coil packs to fail completely, usually develop a misfire on one cylinder.
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jimk2
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| posted on 23/3/15 at 07:34 PM |
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All the plugs did look the same appart from when it was running on 3 cylinders.
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jimk2
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| posted on 24/3/15 at 07:44 PM |
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Well chaps,
I've just been for about a 40 minute drive.
Changed the coil pack earlier. Started it up and initially I was 50/50 on whether it had fixed it (although the fact that it started was a massive
bonus!!)
I stuck with it and after the car cleared some fuel out of its system it got better and better. A bit smokey at first but as the heat built everything
seemed to get back to normal.
Anyway. Thanks for all of the help. I think it might still be running a bit rich so I'm planning on taking it to some experts to have a look at
the carbs.
Thanks again. Hopefully I'm out of the woods!
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