Anyone thinking of going turbo/supercharger - there's a deal going at Mountain Performance that's worth looking at.

Its a group buy (initiated by MPI) that I found on the link below.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?s=5d46ae70ca3ecf1a19e45fd0b6ea21ba&t=267902

Its a sliding scale on discounts based on # of orders, currently at 15%.

I sent them an email asking what BEC models they are offering in this deal and I will post their response here.


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Superchargers and Turbocharger Group Buy from Mountain Performance (MPI).

With the season all but over and tax refund’s coming in we would like to offer a chance to purchase a MPI Supercharger or Turbocharger at a group purchase discount. The way it works is you put down a $250.00(non-refundable) deposit on a kit of your choice during the 30-day promo period. We will update this posting so everyone can see where the total stands. After the 30-day promo period we total all the deposit up and that will determine the discount. All kits are combined towards totals ie. 4 Nytro S/C,4 Apex S/C and 4 Nytro Turbo = 12 kits. We will apply your discount level to all boost accessories; including the ProLoggers, Tunnel Coolers, Fuel System Upgrades, etc.

This deal is good from MAY 1 2011- MAY 31 2011.
Call to make a deposit.
I have 8 deposits now 5/11/11





Stage 1 Supercharger (Apex or Nytro)

* 1-5 kits = 10% discount (example Stage 1 SC Normal $4995, Group $4495)
* 6-10 kits = 15% discount (example Stage 1 SC Normal $4995, Group $4245)
* 11-15 kits = 20% discount (example Stage 1 SC Normal $4995, Group $3996)
* 16-20 kits = 25% discount (example Stage 1 SC Normal $4995, Group $3746)
* 21+ kits = 28% discount (example Stage 1 SC Normal $4995, Group $3596)


Stage 2 Supercharger (Apex or Nytro)

* 1-5 kits = 10% discount (Stage 2 SC Normal $5495, Group $4945)
* 6-10 kits = 15% discount (Stage 2 SC Normal $5495, Group $4670)
* 11-15 kits = 20% discount (Stage 2 SC Normal $5495, Group $4396)
* 16-20 kits = 25% discount (Stage 2 SC Normal $5495, Group $4121)
* 21+ kits = 28% discount (Stage 2 SC Normal $5495, Group $3956)


180HP MPI Turbocharger (Nytro only)

* 1-5 kits = 10% discount (example Stage 1 Turbo Normal $4295, Group $3865)
* 6-10 kits = 15% discount (example Stage 1 Turbo Normal $4295, Group $3650)
* 11-15 kits = 20% discount (example Stage 1 Turbo Normal $4295, Group $3436)
* 16-20 kits = 25% discount (example Stage 1 Turbo Normal $4295, Group $3221)
* 21+ kits = 28% discount (example Stage 1 Turbo Normal $4295, Group $3092)

Nytro Tunnel Coolers: Normal=$465 10%=$418 15%=$395 20%=$372 25%=$348 28%=$334
Prologger Nytro Temp. Temp Normal $ 870 10%= $783 15% =$739 20%=$696 25%=652 28%=$626
Prologger Nytro Boost Control $ 870 10%=$783 15%=$739 20%=$696 25%=$652 28%=$626
Prologger Apex Normal $780 10%=$702 15%=$663 20%=$624 25%=$585 28%=$561
Fuel pump upgrade Normal $400 10%=$360 15%=$340 20%=$320 25%=$300 28%=$288

[Edited on 15/5/11 by crafty]

It looks very expensive to me. There are cheaper ways to supercharge / turbocharge, and their prices look well over the top. At best, you could be looking at;

Turbo - £500 - £1000 new (Depending on Model)
Supercharger - £200 - £2500 depending on type and make, used or second hand
Brackets - £100 home made or laser cut

Its also a bit discouraging because it on a members only forum, and the refund is non-returnable. Whats to say that he'll take your £250 and let you know the price is going to be £50,000 later on? - Cynical i know, but its a real risk. There is also no technical description or other information to check compatibility.

Youve also got to look at your avatar name and location as well as the above, and think hmmmmmmm..........

quote:

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Youve also got to look at your avatar name and location as well as the above, and think hmmmmmmm..........

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Look like rotrex charger to me... Pretty sure tts will do an off the shelf kit for similar price but it's always good to see how other kits are put together if nothing else.

I like the way the airbox and intercooler are combined (like on a Renault 5 turbo), although that might not work quite as well on a bec as a snowmobile (owing to differences in ambient of underbonnet versus arctic tundra temperatures).

The blower seems to be good value, but the other bits probably wouldn't fit so easily without a re-work.


Also I am especially pleased to hear that the original poster is genuine and hope he isn't offended.


Matt

quote:

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Originally posted by matt_gsxrI like the way the airbox and intercooler are combined (like on a Renault 5 turbo), although that might not work quite as well on a bec as a snowmobile (owing to differences in ambient of underbonnet versus arctic tundra temperatures).

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quote:

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Originally posted by matt_gsxrAlso I am especially pleased to hear that the original poster is genuine and hope he isn't offended.

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Jeff Schwartz has the intercooler on his Ultima GTR set up in a similar way, feeding straight into the intake.

I used to think my Ultima was silly until I drove this beast 400 miles on Hot Rod Power Tour in 2009..... 1000hp.... very, very silly on the road.

I can see that a front mounted intercooler might be pretty challenging on a rear/mid engined car.

In my case the front of the car is pretty much on the way to the inlet plenum.

Nice photos,

Matt

I did some research on this last night.

The RX1 snowmobile engine is derived from the R1 but the bottom end is different.

The blower drive on the snowmobile comes off the left side of the engine and runs a jackshaft.

On the R1 - it comes off the right, without a jackshaft.

So the jackshaft would spin the blower the wrong way on an R1.

Ive spoken to the guy and he's giving me a price for the parts in green below.

Hmm interesting. Good find Crafty! Have you got any ideas on how you'd get drive to it on the R1?

What year is your engine? Mine is a 5PW. Was thinking turbo (and already have a turbo and a bunch of other parts) but I wouldn't rule out an SC either. Need to look at their website later on and do a bit of my own research!

Mines a 2004 engine.

Bike kits for the R1 mount the supercharger under the headers, obviously due to space restrictions in a bike application. They are also not intercooled...... doesnt sound good to me.






In the snowmobile, the blower is on the inlet side of the engine. My preference would be to mount in a similar way, with the blower on top of the gearbox and the intercooler on top, with a scoop over the top of the intercooler.

You can see the jackshafts in these pics, not needed on the BEC, but I would expect the SC to be in a similar location, with drive coming from the other side of the engine.

More pics here:

http://www.mountainperformance.com/rx1%20supercharger%20pics.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by crafty
They are also not intercooled...... doesnt sound good to me.

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The TTS one for the R1 bike application is not intercooled

This is what I'm thinking.....

http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/category.asp?idCategory=138

Just received an email response......

Grant sorry its taken me so long. I'll sell you everything in that picture you highlighted except the fuel pump stuff on the far right of that picture. That's actually for a carbureted snowmobile. The superchager with pulleys and belt the intercooler and cac tube, the oil tank and clamps hardware etc.So for everything $2500.00 US. + shipping.

That works out at GBP1519.

I asked if this was fixed, or also subject to the discount structure - its fixed.

I'm in.


[Edited on 27/5/11 by crafty]

That seems like a very good price for new parts. Beware of HMRC taking their pound of flesh though.

Kit arrived today!!!

Is it definitely a Rotrex SC then? If so what exact model? I tried asking Matt at MPI but as you know his replies aren't always that forthcoming.

But yes SHINY!

Jealous!

How quickly do you think you'll get the rest sorted and it fitted.

I was also very interested to hear from Winston and his stock compression R1 engine (using methanol injection)

I'm going to the track tomorrow to play with the car.

I had a few teething problems the first time I took it out (2 weeks ago)... I want to sort those out and get the car running properly N/A before I chuck the blower on... so a couple of weeks I guess.

Blower is a Rotrex C15-60.

I met the designer and owner of Rotrex (the company) yesterday - thoroughly nice chap...

This arrived today... their website is rubbish, but their product and reputation is good.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/index.html


From their tech page>>>>

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Principle of Operation

Using a single knock sensor, the system detects the onset of detonation and retards the timing on a per cylinder basis, up to a total of ten increments. A mode switch lets you select a maximum of either ten degrees or twenty degrees of knock retard. In the ten degree range, each increment is one degree, double that for the twenty degree range.

When knock is detected, software determines knock intensity and decides how many increments to retard this cylinder the next time it fires. The control software retards in proportion to the knock event, up to a maximum of seven steps with one knock event.

The system is always trying to re-advance to stock timing. In the ten degree mode, it re-advances at the rate of one degree every twenty revolutions, double that in the twenty degree mode.

The system does not need a cam or crankshaft reference to determine which cylinder to retard. The unit is programmed to "know" that the knocking cylinder is the one that just fired, and that it won't fire again for two more revolutions. When the knocking cylinder comes around to fire again, software dials in the retard amount for that cylinder. It does this as each cylinder goes by, building up a different retard amount for each cylinder.

The detection algorithm employs a "knock window" to listen for knock at the appropriate time in the combustion cycle



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J&S Safeguard knock control



[Edited on 11/7/11 by crafty]

The car is based in China, its a nightmare getting parts so I bought a complete I bought a spare engine from the USA for USD1600, complete including ECU and wiring harness... mocked up on the spare engine.

Piping and fittings will be here next week....

Grant,

Very interested in your progress - how tricky was it to fabricate the mounting bracket for the S/C drive? Where you able to use some of the components they supplied within this assembly?

I'm still not 100% that the combined plenum and IC would suit my application but if they are still offering discounts it seems like a fairly cheap way to get at least the S/C and some of the drive components. Appears cheaper than sourcing the same in the UK as long as you don't get too clobbered by customs.

Some interesting logistics you have there if your car is in China!

I drew it all up in CAD and gave the files to a machine shop in China.

The plate on the intake has a recess to match the rib on the top of the throttle bodies.

Both plates are 6mm thick aluminium and cost USD70 for the pair.

Ive left the stock crankshaft cover in place and using spacers to bolt the blower bracket outboard of the crankshaft cover. This means I can run the screw-in seal that came with the kit from Mountain Performance.

I’ve got to get the shaft extension for the drive pulley remade about 30mm longer to suit the offset of the bracket.