afternoon Gents,

I'm working on getting to the bottom of my running issues with the Gemini, and I have a sneaky suspicion the problem is electrical.

Just to recap if you've not seen my other threads, i'm running a 1600 XFlow, with twin 40 dellortos, and Lumenition ignition. The car idles well, but and revs ok on the drive not under load, but if its driven, it seems ok for the first 20 yeards or so then it sounds like its running on two cylinders, then struggles and utlimately will die.

Could be a fuelling issue, but I want to rule out any ignition problems before spending any cash on the carbs.

So:

What compression should I be looking for (ish)? or just equal across all cylinders?
whats the best way to check a coil for correct operation? or is it a swap job?
Same for Lumenition? i suspect this is to check the timing is advancing?
What's the correct timing for a Xflow?
Best way to find TDC? Haven't needed to time an engine for a long time!
Is it a standard Dizzy cap thats used? Worth changing?


Assuming the above is all correct, timing advancing etc, then it would appear I have a fuelling problem yes?


Thanks as always. Starting to consider binning the crossflow and going Zetec straight away, but I'd like some running this summer!

What compression should I be looking for (ish)? or just equal across all cylinders?

haynes manual, if you haven't got one i could hunt it out for you

whats the best way to check a coil for correct operation? or is it a swap job?

take one spark plug and take the main feed to the top of the dizzy, insert the spark plug in there, ground the spark plug by putting it on the chassis and you should get a very bright spark, better way is to take all the plugs out and do each lead individually, this rules out broken leads of a dizzy problem.

Same for Lumenition? i suspect this is to check the timing is advancing?

i didn't run lumenition so can't comment, you should be able to find all the wiring information online.

What's the correct timing for a Xflow?

10DEG BTDC at idle with the vac advance off the dizzy and plugged

Best way to find TDC? Haven't needed to time an engine for a long time!

you will need to take your rocker cover off and look for the intake valve opening on cylinder one.... double check this with the haynes manual tho! if its running at the moment and you turn the engine by hand (bolt on the front of the engine) that will confirm it for you


Is it a standard Dizzy cap thats used? Worth changing?

id just leave it unless the internal contacts look very very poor, some contact cleaner or very fine emery roll on the tip of the rotor wouldn't go a miss, don't go crazy tho!

after all of that..... i bet my bottom dollar its over fuelling, rather than electrical if its running ok on idle. unless the timing is miles out... as you said! cheers.

There is a TDC mark on the pulley
Take spark plug out, turn crank so piston is near the top
Put screwdriver down plug hole, find point driver goes down
Mark pully
Turn crank othe way so screwdriver goes up then down
Mark pulley
TDC is in the middle of 2 marked points

Had nothing but trouble with Lumenition on my GTM , converted back to points and condenser , problems all gone. Best way to find TDC ? Do you mean on compression stroke? Putting you thumb over no 1plug hole while turning the crank using a spanner on the crank pulley bolt until you feel pressure building up , carry on turning until the TDC mark on the pulley is aligned, should be close enough to time the engine.

Thanks guys,

Hopefully I'll get a day this weekend to rule out anything electrical, but interesting points on Lumenition. I might try and pick up a cheap megajolt if it keeps playing up. At least I know what I'm looking at there!

Can anyone answer the dizzy cap question?

Is it worth changing or is it not an item that can wear out?

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
Can anyone answer the dizzy cap question?

Is it worth changing or is it not an item that can wear out?

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Ok, small update.

Fed the coil lead to a plug and earthed to chassis. Got a spark, but far from mega bright. Worth changing the coil?

Secondly, popped dizzy cap off, and correct me if I'm wrong but this is normal internals? No sign of Lumenition stuff?



It's also an Aldon dizzy. I presume that's a good thing? Correct ignition curve for the state of tune?

Feeling more confused now.....

That just a standard dizzy with standard points and condenser.
Looks like its been bodged slightly as the blue crimp is not standard.

If I was you I would replace the points, condenser, cap and rotor arm (whole lot £20)
Then see how it runs, set timing at 32deg at 4000rpm as a good starting point.

As you said no sign of electronic ignition so expect the advance curve to be stock too (not a problem, engine will still run fine just may not optimum)

Thanks - though I was going mad! Definitely has a Lumenition box of tricks (little silver solid state thing) perhaps previous owner couldn't get it working right and reverted back to the standard dizzy.

Is it worth changing the coil as well? Or is that a waste of dosh?

Yep your probably right - ignition box may have failed so owner prob just reverted to points.

For what it costs a new coil mite be a good plan, avoid cheap eBay jobs, buy a genuine Lucas coil, standard 12v (non-ballast or non-electronic points type)

It is worth investing in megajolt if you plan one keeping the car, the dizzy is then no longer required (leave it in place to plug hole)

That is a Lucas distributor ,parts are easily available but the points setting will be different from Fomoco or Motorcraft distributors . Lucas points are set to 0.015 " rather the the Motorcraft 0.025"

Thanks rusty! Parts on order :-)

The dizzy cap, if you're using a stock one can be replaced with one from a Sherpa van. Sorry don't know part number but it has right angled ht lead exits to fit under the carb easier. What camare you using? If it's Kent 234/244 etc then the Aldon dizzy will be a 103fxys. All of which is irrelevant really. It will start /run fine with a stock dizzy, points and coil. As someone else said maybe not be optimum for your cam. Non vac advance dizzy (which I'd expect of an aldon one) should be around 14 deg adv when ticking over. Or wind it over by hand with plugs connected to ht leads but plugs out and on the rocker cover. You want to see a spark on no 1 about 14 deg before the TDC marker. Keep going and make sure the rest of the plugs spark in the correct order. Will be in the manual if your not sure. But I guess this is right as it's running/starting but not under load. This issue could be down to plugs, leads or coil. As someone else stated its quite possible to have a spark on the rocker cover but to have no spark under compression.
Don't believe the hype with mega jolt/luminition etc. a properly set up stock system of points condensor will give you good service, even with a well tuned engine. Replace the points every 2-4k miles (which could be 2-4 years!) and it will be fine

So check/replace coil, plugs, leads, cap, points and condensor. If you know some one with a similar spec car you can swap bits over to find the issue then that's locost :-)

As Philfingers says, often used on x-flows, I think you can get them from Burtons and other Ford tuners.

But if you want to go to motor factors the partno info that I have is:

Lucas DDB194, Intermotor 44730 used on Rover 1.7/2.0 Ital, 1.7 Marina, LeylandDaf 1.7/2.0 Sherpa van

About £6 from Halfords with Trade card last time I bought one. Maybe £10-11 retail

Those are the wrong points and condenser for that model of distributer, the distributer is a Lucas series 43d the points and condenser are for the older series 25d which was used pre 1970.
The points condenser and low tension lead should have clip on fittings it is important to get the correct parts, the clip on low tension lead comes with the condenser.

[Edited on 27/7/14 by britishtrident]

EBay link to correct parts for this dizzie ebay item

Note rotor arm fitted is also wrong.type.

Link to photo showing how it should look, this is showing a 1979 MGB dizzie, which is very similar. note the contact breaker points have a clip on fixing for the combined (orange) condensor wire and the (black) low tension power wire.

Note when fitting the Black power wire always fitted to the top otherwise it shorts on the base plate.

Also note the rotor arm conductor shape is different.




Link to web page giving more info

[Edited on 27/7/14 by britishtrident]

[Edited on 27/7/14 by britishtrident]

Thanks BT

I'm amazed you can tell that from that poor quality pic!

Any idea what rotor arm I need?

1980 Ford Escort 1600 with a Lucas dizzy should be enough info

Ok a long update after a long day on Saturday.

Timing - was set to 10 btdc idling, and 36 at 4000rpm. It did seem to be jumping around a little, but more likely my eyes than the timing.

Valves - all fine bar one or two that were a little tight. All now adjusted.

Points - fairly well worn, but still at correct gap. Cleaned and replaced, set to correct gap again.

Leads - all replaced

Coil - replaced with known good item. Coil main feed replaced as voltage wasn't great.


I couldn't get the points and cap in time, so I will replace these when they arrive this week.

Total sum of all this? Bugger all! Still exactly the same issue, sounds awful, runs just as bad. Sounds like it's only running on two half the time, strong fuel smell too.

So carbs then?

Could be points then
Right did you do a compression test?
180-200psi would be healthy and good indication of mechanical integrity
You say running on 2. Do the spit test!
Spit on your finger and touch the exhaust headers. Thus will give you an idea which are failing. Or you could use an infrared thermometer. These are a really useful tool got diagnostics too
I'd wait until I'd changed the points tho

Sounds mega rich too!

Compression was 150psi on 1 2 & 4, and 125psi on 3. This is WOT, cold.

Going to change the HG at the weekend. I'll try the spit test tomorrow!

I'm just looking through my notes for my striker. That had done 200miles in 12yrs
Cold I got :-
91, 92, 94 & 140psi

Once I'd had it running for 15mins I got:-
185, 181, 190 & 192psi

Basically I wouldn't do the gasket on your compression figures. Could just be sticky rings from being sat if it's not run properly for a while

Ok, so worth redoing the comp when warm?

Yes, if you can get it running!
Have you had the carbs apart?
Sorry may have missed it but what fuel pump have you got? When you're cranking it over are you seeing any fuel leaks from the carbs?