Dockie
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| posted on 6/3/22 at 04:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Oh strange,as surely the engines are the same bolt pattern?
I've got a 5 speed in my garage for my next project,I'll have to try my adapter plate on it......
They are different irons, flywheels and clutches between the 192(4 port/5 speed) and 231(6 port/6 speed) RX8's, so not necessarily the same bolt
pattern. Annoying, i agree, however from a quick offering it up, it does only look to be one that is out of line (iirc, it was down near the RX8
starter) and i think it was far enough out that you don't have to weld up the old hole.
[Edited on 6/3/22 by Dockie]
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Partofthechaos
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| posted on 7/3/22 at 12:08 PM |
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My adapter plate goes on the other way round with the starter mounting on the adapter plate on the driver's side. Do you have a different
adapter or does turning it round make your holes line up?
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Dockie
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| posted on 7/3/22 at 03:07 PM |
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No we have the same plate. I'm referring to the stock RX8 starter (comes in from the gearbox, passenger side) not the Jag starter. I'll
double check a bit later, as i'm now second guessing myself  but i'm certain it was on the right way. (basically the opposite way as its
shown in my picture, i know its backwards in that one)
UPDATE:
So i think the plate is fine, the hole i was referring to is, i think, one of the ones that comes from the engine into the plate.
[Edited on 7/3/22 by Dockie]
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Dockie
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| posted on 17/3/22 at 06:38 PM |
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minor progress update.
Sump and pickup is on, a lot shallower than the pictures made it look, so fairly confident it will be ok for clearance.
Flywheel bolts: had a nightmare with these. the previously suggested BMW Mini ones are a different pitch, as are the Mondeo ones. They look to be
1.5mm. The ones in mine are an M10 1.0mm pitch, literally cant find these anywhere at 25mm long with a rating of 10.9 so I'm going to have to
risk 8.8's, however they 'Should' be ok. Looking at the sheets, 10.9 seems to be way over spec'd (someone correct me if
I've got that wrong). Just waiting on those to arrive.
Lower inlets have arrived so they're going on tomorrow along with the fuel rail, then the cam covers can go back on too.
Next steps are to sort the inlet adapters out, look at making the brackets for the PS pump and alternator, and making and adapter for the fuel rail
> regulator.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 17/3/22 at 07:52 PM |
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Mine is a Ford lump but they are indeed m10x1.0 and I’ve fitted 22mm long from an R52 Mini.
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Dockie
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| posted on 17/3/22 at 08:22 PM |
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Ahh, makes sense. Just looked those up and they look way different to the ones i got sent.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 17/3/22 at 10:14 PM |
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Good used second hand ones
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232502205830?epid=1509331348&hash=item3622361d86:g:EbkAAOSwPUpZ0hiR
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Dockie
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| posted on 27/3/22 at 07:23 PM |
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Small progress update:
Flywheel is now on. (thanks big_wasa)
cam covers are also on.
Got the starter holes welded up on the plate, ready for re-tapping.
Managed to shear one of the sensors in the cylinder head (RH bank, as you're looking from the front. between the center and rear cylinders)
Think it may have been knocked and weakened at some point, as it didn't take a lot to break it, so need to figure out what sensor it was and
find a replacement. It looks like it may be a temp sensor, it was filled with white paste and had what looked like a diode in, but I'm assuming
it was a thermistor and thermal compound. *EDIT* yeah, after checking, its the cylinder head temp sensor. Not sure if i'm going to bother
replacing this yet.
Also noticed there's a few points on the sump/engine casting that need to be drilled to make the gearbox plate sit flush, so thats next on the
to do list.
Finally, we spent an hour or so doing some measurements. In conclusion:
Height clearance should be fine under the bonnet, even with the standard jag inlet. The mounts may need dropping an inch or so to make it sit a little
lower, but it should fit under the bonnet with roughly a half inch underhang on the sump ( ill live with this, as i cant justify the rocketeer sump
just for ~10mm better clearance).
Width clearance may need a sleight modification to the body, just removing small amounts to make it fit a little better, but it should go in without
too much fuss.
Depth will need something modified, the bulkhead is concave in the center to fit the IL4 engine. that said, the RX8 box will come into the engine bay
a bit more than the standard box, to make it less of an issue with the AJ30, but it will still need parts modifying to fit. (i assumed this may be the
case anyway, so no real surprises there)
After measuring up, I don't think the standard exhaust headers will work for this. I'm going to have to check again further down the line,
but if this is the case, then i'm also going to have to do away with the stock engine mounts too and get some made up.
[Edited on 27/3/22 by Dockie]
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sdh2903
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| posted on 28/3/22 at 08:38 AM |
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Yeah its the cylinder head temp sensor. Mine fell to bits too. As it's not used I just put a nutcover over it to cover it.
Am really not sure why you would risk using used flywheel bolts? I got a set from jag for around 25quid from memory although they were 25mm long.
[Edited on 28/3/22 by sdh2903]
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Dockie
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| posted on 28/3/22 at 01:28 PM |
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I didn't in the end, through wasa's link i found these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131259163103
Although the bolts i received again looked nothing like these (the ones i got were only 6 sided with a 50mm thread)
but they were a 12.9 rating, a quick blast with a grinder and a file got them down to 25mm.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 30/3/22 at 09:35 AM |
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I would sooner have a good quality used item over a knock off that needs cutting down with a grinder.
But the link to the used ones was more so you could see the fine threads and an idea of length and what they look like in general.
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Dockie
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| posted on 5/5/22 at 01:02 AM |
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Been a while since my last update
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I would sooner have a good quality used item over a knock off that needs cutting down with a grinder.
But the link to the used ones was more so you could see the fine threads and an idea of length and what they look like in general.
They are Luk flywheel bolts, just way too long. I trust them enough myself, but time will tell.
But onto the update; good news, not so good news, more good news, even better news.
Good: The bell housing is milled down, and fits perfect. next is to cut a slot for the starter. also picked up an exhaust manifold for the 2.5 mondeo
v6, and it fits pretty well (one side fouls on the starter motor, but not a big issue to sort). from what i can tell, its the exact same as the 3.0,
just a nice chunk cheaper (i paid £164, full stainless manifold from heads to cat), so no concerns regarding exhaust gas flow. Adapter plate is also
finished and on. I've made some templates to get some adapters made for the ST200 inlet manifolds, finally decided this is the way im going. its
extra expense, but i'd rather pay the money and have a bit more clearance (if only ~80mm or so. might be the difference between the bonnet
closing and not closing.) Going for a remote oil filter+cooler setup similar to how Kev did his. Managed to pickup a full kit for £150, and is most
likely the next thing I'm going to look at. I'm also playing with the idea of using an RX8 subframe, it'll give me a bit more room and
is pretty much a straight swap, the problem is the room it gives me isn't exactly where I'd want it. Ideally I'd have liked a complete
custom subframe for this but;
1. The v8roadster subframe is $1000 alone without shipping or import charges
2. Claire @ crapengineering doesn't do anything for the NC, neither do rocketeer. I'm not sure where else to look.
not so good: while removing the old manifolds, some of the studs snapped, all but one we managed to remove. the last needed to be drilled and as sods
law goes, weve snapped a bit in the hole. not only this, but when trying to remove it, we've split the water jacket and it is leaking = heads
ruined. The stud needed to come out one way or another but alas, it is what it is.
more good: we've picked up a replacement head from leeds for a mighty sum of £70, including cams, shims and valves. just needs a good clean, a
new gasket and some fresh bolts.
Even better news: I've pretty much figured out how im going to do the electrical side of the mx5. the only thing im still to get confirmation on
is how a tach signal is generated. i need to feed it into the stock ecu to get the rev counter working (obviously) but as its canbus, i cant just feed
the signal straight into the clocks, i'm looking instead to mimic the standard setup and hope the ecu accepts it (cant see why it wont). i'm
just not entirely sure where it gets the info from, im assuming its the crank sensor, but just want it confirming. That is where Keith Tanner over at
Flyin Miata comes in. Hes pretty much the guy to go to regarding anything NC mx5/miata related. i've dropped them a message and
they're going to speak to him regarding this and get back to me.
Also started to look into the MS3 a bit, having a look round tunerstudio etc. need to have a read through the documentation to get the hardware setup
for the inputs. started looking at Romdrop and ECUFlash too (for the mx5 side of things), to see what can and can't be done with it. i believe
people use these for the 4cyl 2.5 duratec swaps, so im hoping i can use it to map out a few error codes (mainly lambda sensors, possibly the stock
MAF/MAP sensor too, but im sure other codes will pop up that need taking care of). i know injector sizing can be changed in the ECU, so fingers
crossed, i may be able to do something electronically with the fuel pressure and just reuse the MX5 sensor/regulator, as standard it runs a higher
pressure than the AJ30 (i believe its something like 58psi)
Finally. if this all works out, i can also reuse the stock DBW throttle, its 65mm (the same as the mondeo ST220 one i believe. maybe slightly bigger)
with an option to go to 70mm if needed (hopefully not necessary though, as its a £400+ item).
So thats about where im at so far. still a long ways to go but things are progressing. 
[Edited on 5/5/22 by Dockie]
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big_wasa
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| posted on 5/5/22 at 05:15 PM |
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A bit late now but by far, the best way to remove a sheared stud is with a welder. It can take a few attempts but it never fails. I even got a sheared
brake nipple out of a 35 year old calliper.
Any chance you can stick up the details of who did your bell housing please.
And some photos of you swapping the head would be interesting ta.
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Dockie
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| posted on 5/5/22 at 09:21 PM |
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It was a local company called Stanwood Engineering. Based in bawtry, south yorkshire. Was highly recommended them from people who have had work done
there and I believe motor applications are their speciality. I'm going to see if they can do the inlet adapters too.
Absolutely I'll snap a few pics of the head change. Hoping it goes without too much of a hitch.
I know one of the studs was removed with a welder, I don't however know if this one was attempted with it (I wasn't present at the time) the
problem would have been, even if we could get it out, the threads weren't great anyway. The new stud was a bit of a loose fit. So would either
have needed to be helicoiled or replaced the head regardless. A setback undeniably, but it must be done
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/5/22 at 06:18 AM |
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Re the fuel pressure, the Ford lump is said to run 4 bar (58psi) I have found a Vw fuel filter with a built in regulator.
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Dockie
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| posted on 11/5/22 at 02:22 PM |
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Interesting, if it'll run 4bar then that's ideal. I was on the understanding it was 3bar (43psi ish, but the vid I found, he was having
problems running at this pressure, so maybe the cause). Means I won't have to mess around with a return pipe. I found that it's a
mechanical regulator built into the pump as standard, so no option in the ecu besides engine size.
[Edited on 11/5/22 by Dockie]
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Dockie
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| posted on 29/5/22 at 08:38 PM |
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Small update, not had much chance to work on it lately due to work, but managed to get something done recently.
Firstly, i called in to see 40inches and his build. very knowledgeable guy and a pleasure to meet (thanks for having me), also supplied some very
useful documents to read through! cant thank him enough.
secondly, onto some pics:
Fuel rail is blanked off:
I'm going with something like this for the oil cooler:
I'm toying with an idea for the inlets, i need the Mondeo throttle opening to come to the front instead of the standard rear, so need to lift it
a bit more than usual. thankfully i kept the old plastic inlets and have had a play with them, probably something along the lines of this:
Ill probably be using some 5mm steel plate to cut the adapters out of. its total height is higher than what you guys achieve by having it the standard
way but its roughly the same as what i was aiming for with machined spacers (and is something i can do myself).
Finally, the cylinder head. If you've been following, you'll know we had an incident and it had to be changed. we've got it stripped
down now to the point where we're buying the gaskets and bolts. I mentioned before that i had picked one up for £80 ish, but it wasn't right
(think it was from a Mondeo, as the cam timing was at the front instead of the rear). Found an auction on eBay for a pair of heads from an s-type, and
won it for £10  they're not exactly the same, but they're similar enough that the differences don't matter.
A few pics of the strip down (again, thank you 40inches, the docs were perfect for this)
Cam cover and timing covers removed:
Timing set up as per the technicians manual (crank key at 11o'clock, intake cam at 9o'clock, exhaust cam at 2o'clock):
Chain off and cams out:
Head off:
So thats where we're at
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big_wasa
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| posted on 30/5/22 at 04:27 PM |
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Good to see progress.
I have a question if I can. The 5spd bellhousing, does it come of easy ? Loads on line about the 6 but I can’t find anything on the 5.
I made up an adapter but it’s a biiiiig chunk of steel. I am now leaning towards getting the bellhousing milled.
I tested the vw 4bar fuel reg and it started fine and it hadn’t been ran for a year.
[Edited on 30/5/22 by big_wasa]
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Dockie
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| posted on 30/5/22 at 07:31 PM |
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Good to hear about the 4 bar regulator Did you have to adjust your injector settings or did it just fire straight up?
As for the bell housing, just take the arm out with the release bearing, undo the bolts inside, and hit it a couple times with a mallet. comes off
easy enough. these are the bolts i'm talking about:
Once you have 10mm off, you also need to do the dowel holes 10mm too to compensate.
Here's all my photos so far if anyone is interested, there's a few extra pictures i haven't posted yet:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194990869@N05/
[Edited on 31/5/22 by Dockie]
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CosKev3
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| posted on 1/6/22 at 10:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I have a question if I can. The 5spd bellhousing, does it come of easy ? Loads on line about the 6 but I can’t find anything on the 5.
[Edited on 30/5/22 by big_wasa]
As above the 5 speed bell housing comes off very easily compared to the 6 speed!
Just bolted on,no selectors etc to fiddle about with.
One thing to watch if you are considering the 5 speed for a seven type car the gear lever 'turret' is bigger than on the 6 speed.
Wouldn't fit into my chassis which is basically a classic indy copy.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 2/6/22 at 09:04 AM |
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Taller or wider or both Kev ?
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big_wasa
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| posted on 2/6/22 at 11:14 AM |
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The bush I made.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 2/6/22 at 12:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Taller or wider or both Kev ?
Wider so it won't fit between the upper chassis rails on mine.
The 6 speed is a tight fit,probs 5mm either side but not a sniff of the 5 speed fitting in.
It's got some return springs for centering the gear lever which stick out of the sides that the 6 speed doesn't have.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 2/6/22 at 03:41 PM |
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Ah ok thanks.
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Dockie
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| posted on 12/6/22 at 11:12 PM |
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Small update,
I realized my idea for the oil cooler wouldn't work, due to the tight gap on one of the connectors. There's just no way you would get a TIG
in to it. I do have a solution for it though, I'm going to get a plate welded onto the hole instead and tap it out. The other, more accessable
hole will be welded with the connector though. I'll get some pics when its done.
Had a play around in Tunerstudio with my MS3 and 40inches' MS2 .msq file. I believe i have pulled over all the relevant settings from his file to
be able to start testing soon, but debating whether to:
- Get a JimStim and JimStimX to test with
- Sell the MS3 and just buy an MS2 and use the .msq as is
- Just hook it up to the engine, get a strobe light to test the spark is correct and go from there
These also arrived:
It was cheaper to import from RockAuto in America (same place i got the flywheel, if anyone is struggling to get hold of one like i was) than it was
to buy over here. Gasket was ~£40 and head bolts were on sale down from ~£50 to ~£10, so including import charges and shipping, all in was just under
£80.
I've also snapped a few head comparison pics, some minor differences but it should fit just fine:
Next on the to do list is:
- Get the head sorted and built back up
- Get the oil lines on the engine mount sorted
- Get a spacer made for the exhaust to clear the starter
- Get the inlet adapters finished up
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